New Law in Finland Requires Refunds for Substandard Concerts

[SisterNightroad]

New Law in Finland Requires Refunds for Substandard Concerts
By Jeff Giles July 7, 2015 12:14 PM

Word to the wise for bands contemplating performances in Finland: Fans can now demand refunds for crappy concerts.

Consequence of Sound reports that the Finnish Consumer Disputes Board has handed down its ruling in a case stemming from a 2013 Chuck Berry show in which Berry, suffering from a cold, ended up apologizing to the crowd for his poor performance. Noting that the concert was “well below reasonably expected standards,” board members decided that the promoters owe ticket buyers a 50 percent refund.

Realizing that they’re exposing concert organizers to a potentially slippery slope of liability, the board members took pains to point out that it isn’t enough for a concertgoer to be merely disgruntled in order to seek a refund — the show in question needs to be truly awful in a way that attendees had no reasonable right to expect.

“Anyone seeking a ruling like this is always spurred by a subjective opinion,” Consumer Disputes Board president Pauli Ståhlberg is quoted as saying. “That’s not enough to get a refund. What is significant is a generally agreed view that the concert was a failure, as it was in the Chuck Berry case.”

Furthermore, as Ståhlberg went on to point out, the Board intends to use a varying set of criteria depending on the scope and nature of the performance — helping to ward off frivolous complaints from people who catch a subpar set from a second- or third-tier act at a festival, for example: “There are numerous different performers at a festival and so it have to be evaluated as a whole. Even the marching order affects perception of the overall quality. A failed performance by a featured star is a bigger deal for consumers than one by a warm-up band.”

And while Berry might have found it difficult to deliver while being hopped up on cold meds, everyone knows plenty of rockers have played some of the best shows of their lives after ingesting much stronger substances. “It’s not at all unusual at rock festivals that some artists are high,” mused Ståhlberg. “That doesn’t even necessarily affect the quality of their performances.”



Read More: New Law in Finland Requires Refunds for Substandard Concerts | http://ultimateclassicrock.com/finla...ckback=tsmclip

[Macfanforever]

Good luck in the states with it.Some bands here do give refunds if you are not happy with their performance.

So the folks at the Mick gets sick show should get a refund if FM played over there.

[lazy poker]

. . . well, with chuck berry it doesn't necessarily have to be a cold to serve for a disappointing gig - considering how often good ol' chuck hadn't delivered substantially simply because he just didn't give a damn, or finished a concert after some 20 minutes because he demanded more money from the promoters (and probably only god knows how many countless times he did that), finland's berry-fans are really in for a remarkable insurance, if you will.
on the other hand, especially in berry's case this regulation should've arrived ages ago . . . he won't be back to finland too often at his age, i assume!

[SisterNightroad]

I thnk that in my country a law like this won't happen for a long time; here we have a say that goes: "It rains, thieving government!".
But I think it is totally right for those big public events like festivals, which would be very damaged by the lacking or missing of a performing act. In these cases the displeased concert crowd can even be potentially dangerous.

[Musicman408]

A definite overreach in government. Concerts are a product from a brand. If you have a bad experience, you don't go back.

[chriskisn]

I'd be curious as to what people would think of a Bob Dylan concert. Half of the people would expect a refund and half of the people would say it was the best day of their lives.

I'd think a Chuck Berry concert would be much the same, he might sound bad, he might perform bad, but hell that is a living legend up there!

[Macfanforever]

What people should know before going to these concert with older performers.Give them a break. They have been doing these shows most of their life.

FM in its members included.

They are lucky to see their favorite artists or bands at their latter age and still on stage.The fans that fuss about these older artist have no respect of the older artists.

Yes I would want a refund for any of these younger artists or bands.
I want to see Keith Urban with some friends years ago.He put on a great performance but I guess their fog machine screwed up and fogged up the whole arena and nobody could see the stage.

That would demand a refund.

[lazy poker]

Originally Posted by Macfanforever

What people should know before going to these concert with older performers.Give them a break. They have been doing these shows most of their life.
(. . .)
They are lucky to see their favorite artists or bands at their latter age and still on stage.The fans that fuss about these older artist have no respect of the older artists.

i have not been talking about the chuck berry of now only! chuck, even when he was still in his prime, in his 40s and 50s, still healthy, fit an' going strong, has legendarily been screwing up his audiences (who have been paying good money to see their idol) nearly regularly with his eccentrics . . . the reason was neither his health or age, nor was he on dope, but most of the times he was tryin' to blackmail the promoters for more money! he's been notorious for that and these countless cases are well-known and well-documented. going to a chuck berry concert has always been risky, and he just didn't care about his audiences - as simple as that.

with mr. berry in this context, we might be talking about a rather infamous example, admittedly. but it simply goes to show that every now and then there are artists going over the top with their attitude towards those, who enable them to earn their living with their art. so how about some artists having no respect for their audiences???

i wasn't intending on a really serious participation in this thread in the first place, but i will definitely not gonna take the blame of having no respect of artists - no matter what age! 'nuff said.

[SisterNightroad]

Guys, there's no need to take everything so seriously...
This law probably won't ever be applied unless in rare, extreme and serious cases, no government wants to give money back to its citizens so bad.

[Macfanforever]

Originally Posted by lazy poker

i have not been talking about the chuck berry of now only! chuck, even when he was still in his prime, in his 40s and 50s, still healthy, fit an' going strong, has legendarily been screwing up his audiences (who have been paying good money to see their idol) nearly regularly with his eccentrics . . . the reason was neither his health or age, nor was he on dope, but most of the times he was tryin' to blackmail the promoters for more money! he's been notorious for that and these countless cases are well-known and well-documented. going to a chuck berry concert has always been risky, and he just didn't care about his audiences - as simple as that.

with mr. berry in this context, we might be talking about a rather infamous example, admittedly. but it simply goes to show that every now and then there are artists going over the top with their attitude towards those, who enable them to earn their living with their art. so how about some artists having no respect for their audiences???

i wasn't intending on a really serious participation in this thread in the first place, but i will definitely not gonna take the blame of having no respect of artists - no matter what age! 'nuff said.

OK I understand what you are saying.I forgot and read awhile back on Chuck's issues with his performances in past years.

[Macfanforever]

Originally Posted by SisterNightroad

Guys, there's no need to take everything so seriously...
This law probably won't ever be applied unless in rare, extreme and serious cases, no government wants to give money back to its citizens so bad.

More likely I agree....

[SisterNightroad]

Originally Posted by lazy poker

. . . well, with chuck berry it doesn't necessarily have to be a cold to serve for a disappointing gig - considering how often good ol' chuck hadn't delivered substantially simply because he just didn't give a damn

Originally Posted by lazy poker

chuck, even when he was still in his prime, in his 40s and 50s, still healthy, fit an' going strong, has legendarily been screwing up his audiences (who have been paying good money to see their idol) nearly regularly with his eccentrics . . . the reason was neither his health or age, nor was he on dope, but most of the times he was tryin' to blackmail the promoters for more money! he's been notorious for that and these countless cases are well-known and well-documented. going to a chuck berry concert has always been risky, and he just didn't care about his audiences - as simple as that.

I've just read this interesting article on this subject, I'm truly speechless:

How Chuck Berry Sabotaged Bruce Springsteen at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame’s Opening Night
By Annie Zaleski September 2, 2015 9:52 AM

Bruce Springsteen and Chuck Berry have plenty of shared history. The former backed up the latter in the ’70s, as the Boss once recalled – an experience that challenged the young musician’s ability to think on his feet. “About five minutes before the show was timed to start, the backdoor opens and he comes in. He’s by himself. He’s got a guitar case, and that was it,” Springsteen said. “[I said] ‘Chuck, what songs are we going to do?’ He says, ‘Well, we’re going to do some Chuck Berry songs.’ That was all he said!”

Two decades later, when Springsteen and the E Street Band backed up Berry at the Concert For The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame on Sept. 2, 1995, things hadn’t changed much. The show-opening performance of “Johnny B. Goode” felt a little wobbly, something underscored by the somewhat bemused looks cameras caught the bandmates giving each other. However, things could get worse: In a recent interview with the Hall of Fame, E Street guitarist Nils Lofgren recalls playing with Berry at the concert as part of an all-star jam, along with Springsteen, G.E. Smith, Steven Van Zandt and Chrissie Hynde, among others.

Going by set lists, the final song of the night was supposed to be “Rock and Roll Music.” By this time, the concert had been going for nearly seven hours, which perhaps explains partly why Lofgen says the performance was “real free-form. … We’re just going to do something off the cuff.” True to form, Berry started playing before letting the other musicians onstage know what song was coming next — and that’s where things got interesting.

“Somehow, a minute or two in, he like … shifts the song in gears and a key without talking to us,” Lofgren says. “Now, we all … okay, we’re pros, right? So, we’re all like … trying not to make a train wreck, and it’s tricky. Okay, what key is he in? Let’s start playing there.”

Berry continued shifting keys — four or five times, the guitarist reckons — for reasons Lofgren can only surmise were “to mess with us. I can’t imagine why else this happened. We’re all looking around at each other, the cast of characters and the backup band; these are pros, decades in. We are making these horrible sounds, collectively, in front of a stadium, sold out. We’re looking at each other like, ‘This can’t be happening, right? We’re not creating this thing we’re listening to. Yes, we are.’”

Just when he thought things couldn’t get worse, they did. “At the height of it, when no one has any idea how to fix this, Chuck looks at us all and starts … looking at us, duck walking off the stage, away from us,” Lofgren says. “He leaves the stage, leaves us all out there playing in six different keys with no band leader, gets in the car and drives away. Now if that’s not rock ‘n’ roll … and, I love Chuck Berry, but man … ”

Afterward, Lofgren and Springsteen discussed what had just happened — “I don’t think the two of us have ever participated in something that godawful musically since we were probably 13 or 14. I didn’t even start playing until I was 14” — but managed to find the humor in the musical catastrophe.

“The fact that we did that in a stadium, in an event like the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame opening; it was just so insane and absurd and bad, that we got into one of those laughing jags where you can’t stop laughing, we were howling,” Lofgren says. “When we could barely talk, we would explain another awful thing that happened with Chuck as our leader. It was just hilarious and awful all at once.”



Read More: How Chuck Berry Sabotaged Bruce Springsteen at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's Opening Night | http://ultimateclassicrock.com/chuck...ckback=tsmclip

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by SisterNightroad

Guys, there's no need to take everything so seriously...

This is The Ledge. Most of the members take everything seriously.

The article states it is The Promoter who has to issue the refund. No band will ever be affected by this.