The Ledge

Go Back   The Ledge > Main Forums > Peter Green
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Make the Ads Go Away! Click here.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 08-21-2009, 06:20 PM
snoot snoot is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 263
Default More back at ya

slipkid: Just wanted to clarify the Mayall bit. John Mayall was seeking out Peter's services around the time he was a gravedigger. I think that was late '71?

Would have been around that time. If it's indeed true, could have been in preference to McGee or Robinson. 'Verrrry interesting' as Arte Johnson used to say.

slipkid: I don't think there would've been an "End of the Game" without drugs. Actually one has to ask what songs Peter wrote were drug inspired (Manalishi of course) or weren't.

Ha! There wouldn't have been TPO without drugs either me thinkz. As I see it, End Of The Game stems more from excessive drug use than probably anything else. That, or the played out visions of a ramblin' recluse. Take your choice. Yet take the same material, condense it and sift it through the right band members to hone it more tightly, and you might have a basis to work with. At least in part.

slipkid: In today's world, Peter's lack of self for charity would be seen as an admirable trait. Forty years ago, you were crazy.

Well charity as such was not unheard of back then; after all it was the free love, hippie in beads, "cultural revolution" era (blah blah blah for broken dreams). But it wasn't the altruistic impulse that was alarming, it was the go-for-broke framing he was looking to put it in to the others in the band. It was all or nothing in Pete's mind. And here they were, just beginning to taste the monetary fruits of their labors. If he had his way, they would have chucked all their moolah and carried on as near penniless paupers. They might have well donned robes and joined the hippies in their tree palaces on the isle of Kauai. LOL

Mick was clearly looking at the bigger picture when he told Pete he was crazy to want to take things to such lengths. Fortunately he convinced John of the same when JM started to ponder the notion - seriously.

slipkid: I always thought Kirwan snapped because he was the de-facto leader, and couldn't take it. By Bare Trees, you really felt Kirwan was taking the lead in songwriting in terms of output.

What do you mean, he was taking the lead - or co-lead - from TPO on. By Future Games, he was carrying the band on his shoulders for the most part.

slipkid: As long as Green was in the band he didn't have that pressure of being a leader. Of course this thread speculated the rumor that Kirwan was thinking of leaving before Green, so who knows.

I think DK would have been happiest as second banana, albeit one that had a distinct hand and say in the final delivery. Whether he was destined all along to flame out like PG is hard to say (born under a bad sign type of thing), but something tells me he would have survived the game longer if Peter and then Jeremy didn't bow out in the rather abrupt ways they did. Beyond that, it probably didn't help that he only got along marginally with Bob Welch (no fault of Bob's I think it's fair to say), even if the two played beautifully together. I always saw him in the role of Dickey Betts to Duane and Gregg, if you get my drift.

In the end, I think it's fair to say that the pressure got to him for sure. Same with Pete in many ways, no doubt true of Jeremy in other ways. It was rough enough being a full time rocker back then without having to be the point man to boot, and in Danny's case, an innately shy and reserved one into the bargain (did I mention ridiculously sensitive also?). And it goes without saying, not everyone is meant to take front and center. That damn near takes a coat of armor - and an almost limitless well from which to tap from.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 08-21-2009, 09:43 PM
slipkid's Avatar
slipkid slipkid is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 545
Default again...

I found it in the Christopher Hjort book. John Mayall indeed wanted Peter to tour the UK with the Bluesbreakers in September of '71. By that time Peter was digging graves.


Then Play On without the drugs...hmm. I guess songs like 'Underway' wouldn't have happened. Again that album was pretty much written by the spring of '69. It was recorded in July. If drugs were a factor (probably) it was as if Peter was on his third or fourth drink (nice buzz, feeling good), he hadn't reached his 15th or 16th (1970).

Kirwan:

According to what I've read as long as Peter was in the band he was still calling the shots, until early May of '70 when he was just going through the motions. Of course he asked Kirwan for help songwise and he would respond. The TPO sessions were a great example of this. If John, Mick, Danny, and Jeremy were in the studio, and Peter wasn't there, nothing was done. The rest of the band didn't take any initiative on themselves to work on the music. From Peter's perspective I can see how that could be a burden to have four musicians act like "speak to me great leader, we can't work without you".

Once Peter left, I think Danny, and Jeremy became the front men, and Mick Fleetwood became the "den mother". Obviously Jeremy couldn't take that and left within a year, leaving Danny. Future Games seems like a shared partnership with Welch, and Kirwan, with C. McVie's first song. The number of Kirwan tracks dominate Bare Trees, though Welch comes away with the most accessible song (Sent. Lady).


Charity:

Peter claims later that he didn't want to give all his money away, just keep enough to sustain yourself. I think this is where he had true inner conflict though. He had a thing for sportscars, and could afford the famous Shelby AC Cobra, but he settled on a 700 pound old Jaguar. I think that's when he was mentally losing his grasp. It's the balance between famous musician/star, and regular person with a close knit family.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 08-22-2009, 02:18 AM
snoot snoot is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 263
Default It's official

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipkid View Post
The TPO sessions were a great example of this. If John, Mick, Danny, and Jeremy were in the studio, and Peter wasn't there, nothing was done. The rest of the band didn't take any initiative on themselves to work on the music. From Peter's perspective I can see how that could be a burden to have four musicians act like "speak to me great leader, we can't work without you".
"Oh Divine One, speak to us undeserving minnows as we search for our daily bread. We sit here like mindless lemmings in a never ending state of paralysis, all the while eating up precious and expensive studio time waiting for a sign, any sign, and above all your presence, on what chords to strike and what notes to play. Please Green God, show us a sign, cast your divine glow upon us, and inspire us with good deeds and musical manna. And speak to us great leader, for we can't work without you. Alas we know not what to do."

~ Mick Fleetwood, speaking for the other 3 schmucks that constituted Fleetwood Mac, summer of 1969

From the official TPO De Lane Lea Studios logbook -- just looked it up to verify, it's in there, it's good.

Dang slipkid, yer right!
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 08-30-2009, 04:19 PM
aida aida is offline
Junior Ledgie
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 18
Default

Thank you very much snoot for the Mick Fleetwood's quote. It's so sad to read how much desperate they were fo Peter, how much they needed him. I agree with you all when you say it would have been a different story -I don't know for Jeremy,- but definetely for Danny if Peter hadn't lost his way.

I wanted to say, concerning the so called "Munich incident" that I also agree with you all that may be has been so much distorted and blamed for everything that happened to Peter, and that this may have not been true. Also I have to say that I am one of those "European Ledgies" for whom English is not the mother tongue. So I apologise in advance because trying to express my thoughts about such a controversial thing is really difficult to me. I hope not to be misunderstood.

Being a Pink Floyd fan also I have read hundreds, thousands of speculations about how Syd Barrett lost his way, I think may be more than that of Peter's, and one thing that always freaked me out was this: Richard Wright, PF sadly deceased keyboardist, always claimed Syd just "changed" after a three day LSD trip, similarly to that "Munich". This is something that have always made me think, as the other members of the band and all the speculation never gave importance to that incident in particular. Just imagine how many times may have been the PF members asked about how Syd went sadly craz, and everyone always said more or less the same. How a sensitive guy he was and so on.

Only Richard Wright always said he was sure than "that" was the specific moment when Syd "changed", (you can check out how sure he looks when talking about this thing on the "PF and Syd Barrett Story" DVD). May be guilt and musical restraints are things that were there from the start and this feelings only are enough to explode the whole thing out. But may be there's something about these long way trips that we don't pretty much understand. So maybe behind all the lies that have been said about "munich", may be there is some kind of truth, I don't know.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 08-30-2009, 05:19 PM
Wouter Vuijk's Avatar
Wouter Vuijk Wouter Vuijk is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 688
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aida View Post
Also I have to say that I am one of those "European Ledgies" for whom English is not the mother tongue. So I apologise in advance because trying to express my thoughts about such a controversial thing is really difficult to me. I hope not to be misunderstood.
Don't worry, I bet your English is better than our American and British Ledge friends can correspond in your native language (whichever that is). It's just that
English is by far the most common language of modern day music lovers. So we all accept each others grammatical mistakes (do we???).
BTW Nice piece of thoughts concerning drug influence on sensitive musicians.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 08-30-2009, 10:40 PM
slipkid's Avatar
slipkid slipkid is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 545
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aida View Post
Being a Pink Floyd fan also I have read hundreds, thousands of speculations about how Syd Barrett lost his way, I think may be more than that of Peter's, and one thing that always freaked me out was this: Richard Wright, PF sadly deceased keyboardist, always claimed Syd just "changed" after a three day LSD trip, similarly to that "Munich". This is something that have always made me think, as the other members of the band and all the speculation never gave importance to that incident in particular. Just imagine how many times may have been the PF members asked about how Syd went sadly craz, and everyone always said more or less the same. How a sensitive guy he was and so on.

Only Richard Wright always said he was sure than "that" was the specific moment when Syd "changed", (you can check out how sure he looks when talking about this thing on the "PF and Syd Barrett Story" DVD). May be guilt and musical restraints are things that were there from the start and this feelings only are enough to explode the whole thing out. But may be there's something about these long way trips that we don't pretty much understand. So maybe behind all the lies that have been said about "Munich", may be there is some kind of truth, I don't know.

Syd Barrett is a tough case. Just like with Peter, he did some solo work before giving up altogether. In fact I think his post Floyd material is quite good.

I've seen the Which One's Pink documentary, and have the Syd Barrett story on DVD. You're right that it's Richard Wright who was the most shaken by Syd's mental break. In fact Wright mentions that Syd visited a doctor, only to find out he had permanent brain damage. Then there's the trip to San Francisco, where Syd didn't want to play a show. He was forced onstage, and he just stood there doing nothing, or playing one note continuously.


Peter Green never displayed that type of behavior, in fact his guitar playing was top notch till his departure (at least from the existing recordings). If you believe the rest of the band and entourage, there is evidence Peter wasn't "well" after Munich. Wolfgang's Vault has the Roundhouse Chalk Farm show (4/24/70) streaming on it's website. If you listen to the stage banter prior to the first song, Peter requests everyone to take their pictures now, and refrain for the rest of the show. Apparently if you're a victim of LSD, flashbulbs from cameras can trigger flashbacks.

I also think that being young adults (no one was older than 23 in FM at the time) you're not thinking about anyone but yourself. I'm sure if someone was really paying attention to Peter's behavior such as his sudden interest in Christianity, and his immediate interest preventing worldwide famine (all of which happened before Munich), maybe things would've been different. The Christianity phase could've been an influence from Jeremy, but feeling guilty for being paid to play music is something else. Since Peter was considered the leader, the band never questioned his authority, until money became the issue. Peter had already changed by Munich, but it's possible that experience ensured he wasn't going to return to his old self.

So to compare the cases, I think Syd's illness was much worse initially. Peter didn't completely snap until the early/mid 70's. The Bob Welch story about Peter Green and the piece of cheese in his hair for an entire weekend was probably a bad sign.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 08-31-2009, 07:19 AM
Mrpeabody Mrpeabody is offline
Junior Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 29
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipkid View Post
The Bob Welch story about Peter Green and the piece of cheese in his hair for an entire weekend was probably a bad sign.
Eh? What story's this?
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 08-31-2009, 11:13 AM
dino dino is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 638
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrpeabody View Post
Eh? What story's this?

It's from the Bob Welch Q&A on this site. Referring to the Penguin sessions, January 1973.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 08-31-2009, 02:11 PM
doodyhead's Avatar
doodyhead doodyhead is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lake Worth FL,Pine Bush,NY
Posts: 598
Default cheesehead

I remember reading that in the archives,

It could be that it had to do with food habits

peter was a proclaimed vegetarian.( I guess cheese did not count in his version) One who was now not opposed to sleeping anywhere and with little regard for personal appearence.
(
Bob Welch was from southern california. (He could have been Veggie, omnivore, canibal ). it would seem that fastidiousness was one of those things that would stick in his mind. Its funny what people remember. Bob also said to peter that he picked on people of lesser ability in his bands. its funny that Bob chose to play with then too. I don't think that was what Peter thought when he brought in Danny or Jeremy.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 09-01-2009, 02:08 PM
slipkid's Avatar
slipkid slipkid is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 545
Default "chicken killer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by doodyhead View Post
Bob also said to peter that he picked on people of lesser ability in his bands. its funny that Bob chose to play with then too. I don't think that was what Peter thought when he brought in Danny or Jeremy.
I have no idea where Welch would get such an idea. If anything Peter embraced his peers, he wanted to jam with them! Joe Walsh, Duane Allman, Eric Clapton, and Jimi Hendrix aren't slouch guitarists, and Peter played with all of them. Peter even mentions prior to "Encore Jam" (Boston Vol.2), that his fellow British players have egos that are too large to get into jams for fear of a little bruising. He was happy that american guitarists (in this case Walsh) were willing to have some fun on stage.

I have a feeling Bob felt small as a player compared to Peter, so he used "chicken killer" as a joke, as to cut the shame he was feeling. As Jeremy was probably the best slide guitarist in Britian at the time, and Danny Kirwan could've fronted many headline acts in the day, this is the only way it makes any sense.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 09-01-2009, 04:01 PM
mzero mzero is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 258
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipkid View Post
I have no idea where Welch would get such an idea. If anything Peter embraced his peers, he wanted to jam with them! Joe Walsh, Duane Allman, Eric Clapton, and Jimi Hendrix aren't slouch guitarists, and Peter played with all of them. Peter even mentions prior to "Encore Jam" (Boston Vol.2), that his fellow British players have egos that are too large to get into jams for fear of a little bruising. He was happy that american guitarists (in this case Walsh) were willing to have some fun on stage.

I have a feeling Bob felt small as a player compared to Peter, so he used "chicken killer" as a joke, as to cut the shame he was feeling. As Jeremy was probably the best slide guitarist in Britian at the time, and Danny Kirwan could've fronted many headline acts in the day, this is the only way it makes any sense.
i remember reading this years ago and also thinking it was a strange thing for bob to say. i think you and vinnie are correct that this statement reveals as much or more about who said it than it does about who it was said to or about!

i do admire bob very much nonetheless. zero
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 09-01-2009, 06:41 PM
Wouter Vuijk's Avatar
Wouter Vuijk Wouter Vuijk is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 688
Default

Yesterday, 07:19 AM
Mrpeabody
Junior Ledgie

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipkid View Post
The Bob Welch story about Peter Green and the piece of cheese in his hair for an entire weekend was probably a bad sign.

Eh? What story's this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dino View Post
It's from the Bob Welch Q&A on this site. Referring to the Penguin sessions, January 1973.
As a matter of fact he also said it in the interview in "Rock Family Trees - The Fleetwood Mac Story" documentary on Fleetwood Mac.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 09-01-2009, 10:56 PM
slipkid's Avatar
slipkid slipkid is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 545
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter Vuijk View Post
As a matter of fact he also said it in the interview in "Rock Family Trees - The Fleetwood Mac Story" documentary on Fleetwood Mac.
That's where I first heard of the story. It's a decent bio, not the best, but far better than the one from the Biography Channel (U.S.). The closest account to what happened until 1971 is the BBC Peter Green documentary. It still has some holes, Munich has never been properly explained (Peter loved it, the rest were scared for their lives). Jeremy Spencer's memory is essential, thankfully he's there to fill in the holes that Mick and John don't remember. McVie has A LOT of holes in his memory.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Blues: The British Connection by Bob Brunning  picture

Blues: The British Connection by Bob Brunning

$12.99



Bob Brunning Sound Trackers Music Series Hardcover 6 Book Lot Pop, Metal, Reggae picture

Bob Brunning Sound Trackers Music Series Hardcover 6 Book Lot Pop, Metal, Reggae

$56.99



1960s Pop by Brunning, Bob picture

1960s Pop by Brunning, Bob

$5.16



Bob Brunning Sound Trackers Music Series Hardcover 6 Book Lot Pop, Metal, Reggae picture

Bob Brunning Sound Trackers Music Series Hardcover 6 Book Lot Pop, Metal, Reggae

$79.99



1960s Pop - Hardcover By Brunning, Bob - GOOD picture

1960s Pop - Hardcover By Brunning, Bob - GOOD

$6.50




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
© 1995-2003 Martin and Lisa Adelson, All Rights Reserved