Thrown Down: What Makes the Song

[CarneVaca]

I had not heard the demo of "Thrown Down," so this song is very new to me. I would not be surprised if this becomes the first single, since Stevie does lead vocals and the song contains the signature lead guitar sound that will be imediately recognizable. Or perhaps the label, after leaking this, will release some other song as the first single and thereby attempt to create more excitement around the album release.

Now, for the song. I like it. I especially like Lindsey's layered guitar treatment, which he used so masterfully in Out of the Cradle. The arpeggio during the verses, which has rightly received kudos on these boards already, the acoustic strumming, the muted notes and the sparse electric guitar embellishments are all tastefully done. There seem to be at least five guitar tracks in the mix, adding a nice rich texture to the song. I also like the Hammond organ in the background. I only wish Lindsey had thought of adding the Hammond to his sound long ago because I love that instrument.

The harmonies are well placed and Lindsey's voice is blending well with Stevie's The background vocals add a nice touch.

The song's weakness, and here's where I'm going to get targeted with rotten produce, frankly, is the lyrics. To begin, there have been way too many songs written about failed relationships, and this song is rather bland lyrically. It is very hard anymore to say something fresh about this topic. About the only interesting image in the song is the barricade being thrown down, which makes you think while you process that image in your mind's eye. The rest of the words to me are ho-hum. And I wish Stevie would use some self-discipline and stop using words like "baby." Her penchant for writing in the third person, to me, is a little distracting. Songs are most effective when written in first or second person. She does switch to the second person along the way, but it is a confusing, therefore ineffective, switch.

I like the song. It's going to be one of those that I will listen to because it sounds good, it has a nice melody but my ear simply won't pick up the words because they don't mean much to me.

Now, folks, jump in on the discussion, but remember, I like the song and I am not trying to diss anyone here. What do you think about the song?

[sulamith]

I really like the lyrics to TD, and I guess I like them because they are very "Stevie". I would almost call them vintage Stevie. She does use "baby" alot, but no moreso than anyone else. No Doubt and their "hey baby hey baby hey" lyric come to mind.
Stevie says "baby" like no one else. It's trippy and cool.

As far as the lyrics being based on a worn-out premise, well, you could say the same thing about Lindsey. His songs are always about relationships that aren't going well.

It's just what I have come to expect from them, and I suspect they will keep doing it. Failed relationships, angst, and longing will always be good premises for songs, because their will always be somebody who can identify with that.
Even if you are in a good relationship, most folks have had a bad one here or there, and there are even a few people who will always mourn the "one that got away".
It's just Stevie's thing.

You can't tell an artist how or what they should be creating. It's just like the people who are trying to tell JK Rowling that she should or shouldn't be doing this or that with the storyline of Harry Potter. I love her response. She said, "This is my story, and I'm going to tell it the way I want to tell it." Good for her, I say!

My mother is not a very big fan of my artwork. Oh, she thinks I'm talented, but she doesn't understand why I like to paint unicorns and dragons and jesters. She looks at it and says, "Geez, Sharon, can't you just paint a nice vase of flowers or something?"

No, I can't. I don't want to paint flowers any more than Stevie wants to write happy little love songs.
If you want flowers and sweetness, find yourself another artist, I guess. lol!!

I agree with you completely. I LOVE Lindsey's guitar work on this...i actually wish the guitar solo was a bit longer...it seems to end a bit too soon. But the arpeggio you are talking about is what made me love his style in the first place. It was very surprising to hear that when the first verse kicked in. At first, I thought it was going to sound predictable but was pleasantly surprised.

I agree about the lyrics. When i heard that "Thrown Down" was going to be used on the FM album i thought to myself "yuck...that song sounds very boring..." I thought Stevie's best material was that off the wall dark and mysterious stuff including the lyrics. We all know that Stevie's lyrics have somewhat lost some "magic" in recent years and i'm sure it's because her life has straightened out quite a bit. Her lyrics seem to be interesting whenever she's referring to her past life or some sort of drama or trouble (ie..."Fall From Grace", "Trouble in Shangri-La"...)

She used to say in the past "you can't possibly write good songs if you're happy all the time...you have to be somewhere between tragedy and happiness..." And i've been thinking about this quote a lot lately basically because for me her music and lyrics aren't what they used to be. It just is what it is and that's it. I'm not saying this to criticize at all. It's just that there's an "eerieness" that seems to be missing and that's what attracted me immensely to her style.

Above all, believe it or not, i DO like the song. I would probably also like it a bit more if Chris was in there. Again, for me, she's missing in FM. But, we must soldier on. I like the "darkness" the finished version has over the demo version. I was surprised by that. The demo has a bland feeling to it so initially i was worried. But Lindsey has worked his magic. God how i love his style. I'm at work right now and i don't have access to hearing the song but i'm imagining it right now and all i hear is his guitars. I like the ending too with the guitars and alternate vocals going back and forth. I also like the second verse for some reason. I don't know the words offhand but i think it's the last line in the second verse before the chorus comes back....i think it's something along the lines of letting your pain become the darkness or something. Anyway, i wish she would go off a bit on that one. In other words, you know how "Planets of the Universe" is? Well, i love the extended ending to that song cause she goes off in that classic style. She needs to do that a bit more.

Originally posted by joe
...her music and lyrics aren't what they used to be. It just is what it is and that's it. I'm not saying this to criticize at all. It's just that there's an "eerieness" that seems to be missing and that's what attracted me immensely to her style.

I want to clarify this because i don't want to be misunderstood and blasted. Stevie and any other artist creates what they want and how they want. When i or someone says "they should do this or they shouldn't do that..." it really is referring to how much more enjoyment we would get personally if we could custom tailer them to our needs.

Hope this make sense. I'm glad that Stevie and FM are creating at all. It's just that if i feel that there's something lacking compared to past work, i'm going to search out the past work to satisfy my "wants".

[joe68]

I have to say I love the melody of the song, but I also agree on two points: the lyrics are a little wishy-washy and I'm really not sure what she's talking about this time...
"You say you're sorry...
Now you should walk away...
But it's so overwhelming...
You have nothing left to say..."
Huh?

And, you're right about the comparison to "Planets". She just seemed so committed to that track, especially the ending of it. I think "Thrown" kind of needs that little kick as well. But I also know that Stevie has always "stayed in check" so to speak with the Mac as opposed to her solo stuff.

The one thing that really makes the song for me is Lindsey's guitar work. It's abolutely amazing and so his signature.
I love the harmonies as well.

I'm wondering...has it been confirmed that this song is going to be the first single?

[Mike B]

I like the "darkness" the finished version has over the demo version.

Me too! I wasn't too excited about the demo of Thrown Down and when I heard it would be on the new album, I was just "eh." But hearing it with Lindsey's magic touch - wow!

This song totally works for me. The intensity that Lindsey's guitar work added has just created an entirely new feel for the song....there is, like Joe said, a darkness, an eerieness, a sense of urgency in the song that wasn't there before. It kicks the demo's ass.

The lyrics don't bother me in the least.

The only thing I'm not completely sold on is the backup vocals. I guess it is Sharon and/or Lori, but their voices sound so high and "sweet", it takes the edge out of the song for me.

Still, I'm in love with the song and can see it as a highlight of the new album.

Mike B.

Originally posted by Mike B
The only thing I'm not completely sold on is the backup vocals. I guess it is Sharon and/or Lori, but their voices sound so high and "sweet", it takes the edge out of the song for me.
Mike B.

yeah, i forgot to mention that. i'm sorry folks but i need to only have official FM vocalists on the record. Honestly, i hated the idea of backup vocalists even back in the "Tango" tour days but i guess that's the way it has to be. Now, they're on the record as well? I'm not wild about that. It's more like FM & Co. And the sad thing is that i hear Chris singing those harmonies that Sharon and Lori are doing (or Sharon & Mindy)....Stevie and Lindsey could have done those vocals even if they had to rearrange them to fit their respective ranges.

Oh well....i guess we can never be happy huh? For my own sake i have to redirect my energy to look on the bright side.

[chiliD]

I still haven't heard the original demo version...well, I did quite a while ago, and only once. I still would really like to compare the demo with this "finished" version side-by-side.

The thing that draws me to the song is Lindsey's guitarwork. He uses some OLD things (the solos...sound like his "Isn't It Midnight" tone), and he incorporates some of the NEW ideas he'd come upon the last few years (the main rhythm work sounds like ideas he used on "Try For The Sun" & "Red Rover"). Lindsey also seemed to capture some of the same feel that Stevie had on "TISL"...specifically "Planets Of The Universe".

Yet, the overall FEEL of the song sounds like "vintage" Rumours era FMac...but, I can't put an exact finger on WHAT it is that makes that sound that way. Like hearing a brand new Rolling Stones tune and knowing that it IS the Rolling Stones before Jagger even opens his mouth.

[David]

I think the work the band did on "Thrown Down" is elegant but too straightforward. I had the same response to it that I had to the "Trouble in Shangri-La" album last year. I've always been a little disappointed when Fleetwood Mac stripped its work of idiosyncrasy & went for the one-two punch of MOR, whether it was the reactionary quality on some of "Mirage" or the mainstream "Time." I can't really see myself returning to "Thrown Down" in 20 years the way I return to "Tusk" & "Heroes"---or at best only sporadically. To me, the charm is usually in the off-kilter, & this "Thrown Down" track, while beautifully played & mixed, has no more distinct personality than tracks I've heard by the Dave Matthews Band or Sheryl Crow or even Dave Mason. All the little elements that the band pulls together with utmost craft in this track just ultimately seem so calculated to me, with that radio hit blueprint behind it all. The sad thing is that, even when it is engineered to do so, the song typically doesn't chart anyway.

[blinker12]

The arrangement and the song itself are terrific, but I agree with CarneVaca about the lyrics. They *sound* OK, but they don't really mean anything. I don't think it's necessarily the subject matter that's the problem _ there are always fresh (or at least compelling) ways to look at love gone wrong.
Instead, they're just not very well written. And frankly, I find that disappointing considering that Stevie's lyrics on TISL were some of her best and most direct in years. Lyrically, "Thrown Down" seems like a bit of a step backward _ to the OSOTM era, when everything she wrote was vague and third-person.
Disclaimer: This isn't an attack on Stevie (I adore her work) or an attempt to say that she "should" have written the song another way. Just an opinion.

As for what's great about the song: I really like the background vocal line sung by Sharon and Lori. True, it would be better if it were sung by Christine, but musically it adds a lot to the song. Also, of course, Lindsey's guitar work is splendid. I love the little truncated solos at the end. And I think Stevie's vocals are very clean and clear. It's kind of a nice twist that at the end of the song, *Lindsey*, not Stevie, is the one to spaz out! LOL

[Christopher]

I also believe that Lindsey was inspired with TISL......esp 'Planets" ... I recall in an interview w/ Srevie around that time ...That Lindsey mentioned to her he was impressed with John Shanks and what he did with Planets of the Universe......and he thought TISL was her Best solo lp to date...

Thrown Down-doesnt sound out of place next to Stevie's TISL songs....I was listening to Planets and TD back to back the other day and they flowed very nicely....

Another positive on the new FM Thrown Down version is the tempo....the Tempo is brighter and faster than the demo version and also gets Stevie out of that slow to mid-tempo which her songs usually plod along at.....

[CarneVaca]

Were Stevie's vocals redone from the demo? Or do you think they were patched in? Of course, if Lindsey changed keys on the song, they would have been redone, though these days with the kind of software at the disposal of producers, you can change keys on someone's vocal electronically. I don't see Lindsey doing that though.

What about Stevie's tendency to write in third person? Is that one of the attractions to a lot of people? Does it help draw you in to the story?

Remember in "Dreams" she uses the second person, and I think that is what makes the song terribly effective. Of course, I consider "Rhiannon" an exception to the rule, but that song is on a different plain altogether.

Originally posted by David
I think the work the band did on "Thrown Down" is elegant but too straightforward....The sad thing is that, even when it is engineered to do so, the song typically doesn't chart anyway.

David, i agree with everything you are saying. Although i am still glad (believe it or not) that they are putting a record out....well, 4/5 of them plus "extras"...i just wish that they would go that extra mile and be a little bit more groundbreaking. A little more rough and experimental if you will...the new stuff comes out and then 6 months later you're sick of it already cause it's too formulaic. And, yeah, then it doesn't chart so everyone thinks it's a failure. Most of these old bands are like that. I mean, "Don't Stop" by the Stones? I didn't see anything special with that one.

I hope "thrown down" isn't a sign of things to come in the context of what David is saying.

[jeffs]

Personally, without having recently listened to Twisted, this song sounds like Twisted with different lyrics. Anyone else find the resemlence? Not going to be a radio hit in my opinion, but pleasant enough to listen to.

[BlueGrass]

Usually the first song leaked from an album is the first single. The only thing is this sounds like it isn't completed. The tracks starts off odd with the drum roll. It isn't in CDQ either, but that doesn't mean anything.

If this is the first single then I would be sort of dissapointed, not because it isn't a good song, but because I would like something a bit more edgier like "Gift Of Screws."