Ken Caillat's book...bits and tidbits

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by MrStevie

I wish my eyes were open sooner. I wasted a lot of years listening to his music and going to his concerts. It kinda makes me sick now.

Really??? you feel you've wasted your years listening to his music and going to his concert. This is the most disturbing post in this whole thread.

[holidayroad]

Originally Posted by henryscutter

As far as the band defending themselves, if they do it will probably be in a song. I like to think that Everybody Finds Out is Stevie's response to Carol Ann's jealous portrayal of her in the book.' You cant love him you cant have him= I do have him most of the time. Anytime we can get away". There was one point in the book where Carol mentions Lindsey going to Stevie's hotel room to talk to her about being mean to poor innocent Carol. Carol says Lindsey was gone for hours. Did she really think they were talking about her all that time? She was definitely dilusional about the 'Spectre of Stevie'. The part in EFO when Stevie says "you always know when somethings wrong, my friend" sounds like she is adressing Carol's attempt to befriend her after she trashes her through out the book.
For Lindsey, I can see Red Rover being a response to Harris. You dont belong here, I guess you never did = FM circle, Red Rover we come to take you over= sarcasm of her innocent act and her portrayal of the band. One of the quiet ones one of the few, now fall down onto your knees show us all what you can do= I have always thought of Carol as a glorified groupie so I will leave that up to interpetation
There may be other references in songs that we havent noticed?

I like your reasoning, but CAH's book was released after SYW.

[tabruns]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

It doesn't seem to me that any of these people are perfect. The pressure was on Lindsey. Anger came out in certain ways. There is no justifying it. It seems like he is a real passionate person and takes things all the way - his music, maybe his loves. When those thing don't work out he strikes out.

Hopefully now that he has children he sees the bigger picture and if he does anger management issues those are now under control. Stevie's said several times in interviews that since becoming a father Lindsey is a "gentler" person, so maybe that has happened.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by tabruns

Hopefully now that he has children he sees the bigger picture and if he does anger management issues those are now under control. Stevie's said several times in interviews that since becoming a father Lindsey is a "gentler" person, so maybe that has happened.

And she says he reminds her of the gentler person she used to know a long time ago.

Michele

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by michelej1

And she says he reminds her of the gentler person she used to know a long time ago.

Michele

Yeah, I think Lindsey pretty much lost his mind for the better part of the 70's and 80's and I'm sure all that craziness was due to drugs, stress of carrying the band as a producer and arranger and the insta-fame of BN line-up FM. I would be very surprised if he was still choking people today.

[Regina]

I did not read the book. I have no intention of reading the book. But, as I'm skimming through some of the comments...this is the thought that comes back to me: can people change?
People are born with certain traits. And, I do believe certain basic personalities (and/or the disorders that come with them) are inherited/genetic. So, let's say we have an alcoholic. When they are "clean and sober," for a certain number of years...we applaud them for being clean and sober and hope/pray/believe...they will stay that way for the rest of their lives. No one who may know them intimately will ever forget their days as active alcoholics but they move on because the person has. And, we assume that people can change their lives for the better. And, frankly, many do.
Certainly, other addictions/personality disorders...seem to have more impact and are harder to forgive. BUT, as a fan of a musician, do we toss the person's talent and our fandom aside because we hear second-hand accounts of past behavior? Especially when this behavior was so enabled.
Take Michael Jackson. He's dead so he's a saint all of a sudden. (And I'm not starting a debate...I'm just bringing up a point). Rumors of his molesting kids seem to have fallen by the wayside. But, again, if true--this was behavior that was enabled. Even by the kids' parents. Even MJ's death was enabled because he was paying people to break the law and give him what he wanted. Famous people have Yes men and women surrounding them. Very few people are stopped from doing exactly what they want--legal or not legal, moral or immoral.
I'm not excusing Lindsey's behavior (assuming every single thing we've heard is 100% true) but everyone, including Ken--including Carol Ann--including EVERY single member of FM and those who worked for them--enabled Lindsey's mania. Why? Because it was more important to keep the Big Machine intact (God help me, I'm using that phrase~!) than getting this dude some psychological help. Or, even locking him up for a while to give him a taste of consequences for one's behavior. And, now, when these people are no longer in any way, shape or form going to legimately make money from FM/Lindsey--the dirt flies! Carol Ann may have had demons to purge...I'll give her that. But, I still think these people think Lindsey is much more of a celebrity than he actually is. And that some hue and cry would have come about from their tell-alls and made them best-selling authors.
But, no one (but us) seems to care.
I really have no clue, personally, what the truth is. I admire Lindsey as a singer, as an artist. I like the man I've met a couple of times. He's rather sweet and funny, in a peculiar sort of way.
When I think too much of their past, and take the rumors at face value, I think they were all pretty despicable people. Every last one of them.
I hope all their demons are gone. And that they are not doing any of this stuff today. And, if I hear otherwise, I'll have to re-evaluate my thoughts. For now, in my mind, I don't know what kind of a person Lindsey is behind closed doors. But, he has three seemingly happy, content kids and I'm assuming/hoping/praying that they aren't good little actors. And, I'm going with the belief that Lindsey did get the help he needed to become a better person.

[henryscutter]

Originally Posted by holidayroad

I like your reasoning, but CAH's book was released after SYW.

yeah I know, but I thought she was trying to get it published for quite a few years ( not sure how many? ) I figured FM lawyers and the band had read many versions of it over the years. Maybe there was a rough draft of it floating around before SYW

Either way it is fun to speculate

[elle]

Originally Posted by Regina

can people change?

certainly hope so.

Originally Posted by Regina

we assume that people can change their lives for the better. And, frankly, many do.

"there's no redemption without... forgiveness" (Say Goodbye intro, LB)

"the power and importance of change" (Big Love intro, LB)

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

I would be very surprised if he was still choking people today.

I know this wasn't written as a joke,
but it certainly made me laugh.

I wouldn't worry too much about Mr.
Buckingham being the Boston Strangler.

Also would Stevie's, let's say airiness; preclude
her from such stories? With drugs, human sex
trafficking, fairies, pyramids, spells and past lives
already out there - what's left to write about?

Mr. Buckingham is just a flawed human being like
the rest of us.

[seekerj]

Just a thought: Lindsey is an extreme introvert. When an introvert is continually forced into dealing with extroverts, they can only take so much, the frustration builds, and then anything can happen. And they usually aren't proud of their resulting actions, but they don't know how to handle it any other way.

[holidayroad]

Originally Posted by henryscutter

yeah I know, but I thought she was trying to get it published for quite a few years ( not sure how many? ) I figured FM lawyers and the band had read many versions of it over the years. Maybe there was a rough draft of it floating around before SYW

Either way it is fun to speculate

I really don't know how long CAH tried to get the book published. Still, yes, it is fun to speculate!

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

I would be very surprised if he was still choking people today.

Lindsey must be deceptively strong. Ken wrote Lindsey took him in his arms and lifted him off the ground declaring, "You're worth your weight in gold." I thought, man, Lindsey has muscles I didn't imagine, sometimes strangling and at other times cradling grown men without effort.

The book is funny to me, because it reads like a novel and details make it seem more credible, but those more minute details (not the big events) are almost certainly invented. Even if you keep a very accurate diary, there's no way you would remember 35 years later that when Carol was telling you what she liked about the album and her attention immediately shifted to him like a magnet. She asked him did he want a brandy or a spiced cider and Lindsey said, "you decide for me." You know, unless you've got that Marilu Henner condition, no one has total recall like that. That stuff is neither in Ken's memory or in his journal. It's more like fictionalized detail that makes the whole book seem rich and more reliable than it probably really is.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by seekerj

Just a thought: Lindsey is an extreme introvert. When an introvert is continually forced into dealing with extroverts, they can only take so much, the frustration builds, and then anything can happen. And they usually aren't proud of their resulting actions, but they don't know how to handle it any other way.

I don't think Lindsey is that introverted though. Stevie complained that in the early days, he was making all the music friends and she was out working and Cory complained about having to get him to the plane on time when he was talking to people who came by the dressing room. She said once he starts talking, you can't get him to stop. He just put his arm around her and zoned her out while he kept gabbing. I think he has few interests, music being the main one (and pot being another one in the old days, anyway) and if you have that in common with him, he probably is quite an extrovert. Of course, if you don't have anything in common with him, then I imagine that's when he's introverted.

Michele

[seekerj]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don't think Lindsey is that introverted though. Stevie complained that in the early days, he was making all the music friends and she was out working and Cory complained about having to get him to the plane on time when he was talking to people who came by the dressing room. She said once he starts talking, you can't get him to stop. He just put his arm around her and zoned her out while he kept gabbing. I think he has few interests, music being the main one (and pot being another one in the old days, anyway) and if you have that in common with him, he probably is quite an extrovert. Of course, if you don't have anything in common with him, then I imagine that's when he's introverted.

Michele

I just meant his overall personality type. Being open, friendly, or even talkative does not mean that he is not an introvert. Nobody is 100% one or the other.

I'm using the Myers-Briggs definition. For extroverts, interacting with other people replenishes their energy. They get their energy from interacting with others. When they walk away, they are fully-charged. For introverts, interacting with other people drains their energy. Being with people just sucks the energy right out. They need to walk away and spend time alone to replenish their energy.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by seekerj

I'm using the Myers-Briggs definition. For extroverts, interacting with other people replenishes their energy. They get their energy from interacting with others. When they walk away, they are fully-charged. For introverts, interacting with other people drains their energy. Being with people just sucks the energy right out. They need to walk away and spend time alone to replenish their energy.

There has been controversy because in some schools (British I think) they were keeping children from forming close friendships. When they saw them socializing with just one or two people, they broke them up and encouraged group activity instead. Parents were outraged and pointed out that some people, from childhood to adulthood, only function well one on one. They don't thrive in groups and you can't force them to.

As for Lindsey, he definitely doesn't seem comfortable being alone really. Not totally. I mean, he can close himself in his studio, but as far as living TOTALLY alone, he always seems to want someone around. I mean, even aside from Richard, CAH said that he had a couple of guys from Fritz living with them at some point. He doesn't seem to like to party like Mick, but it's like he doesn't enjoy just his own company that well either.

Michele