Ken Caillat's book...bits and tidbits

[Dodfather]

My copy arrived today, pre-ordered from Amazon in the US. I have a train journey this weekend - perfect reading!

[David A]

I just finished Ken’s book, and I was somewhat startled, and baffled and confused. Keep in mind, I am a LB fan #1 and FM fan #2, I did read CAH’s book about her time with FM and LB, and the picture she painted of LB wasn’t all that flattering, but I decided to just squash it. But, after reading Ken’s book, it is amazing how many demons LB must have had back in the day. But, I am confused how to feel about him now.

. I mean, I guess one can say he is a human being and we all make mistakes, and that let’s face it, he never put himself out there to be a role model, and maybe I should stick to loving his music and not care to much what kind of person he was/is. But, I’ll admit, for the most part vie always admired the person he is, not so sure any more

. I would say that FM may be great musicians, but I’d say not such great people, after reading this book.
. I do think FM was never obligated to take care of these people that worked with them, I mean Loyalty is one thing and judging from this FM doesn’t have any, but as far as taking care of these people, that wasn’t their job or duty, if people were too busy smoking dope or too stupid to make sure that they weren’t paid, then that’s on them and not the band.
. It’s weird, LB never struck me as a guy who people would be afraid of, if he was choking ppl, and I was there, I would have jumped in, heck LB isn’t the Hulk, so I wonder why people never did that, or if he choked me, like he did Ken, I would have punched him square in the face. People seemed really scared of LB, and for the life of me, don’t know why
. I am not going to even try and rationalize him abusing people, it’s just not right, and I wonder if he still even knows what he did, and down the road, id hate for his kids to read these things about their father. Its one thing to read these things about someone you idolized, but to read them about your Father is another.
. I do tend to agree with Ken that for the most part, LB was an unhappy person, that is self inflicted, and I sure hope he is a happier person today
. It’s strange, as bad as LB may have been, I tend to think w/out him being assertive, and we would never have gotten what we did from the band, which is a strange trade off
. 1997 Dance Time, I always did wonder why FM didn’t work with Richard and Ken again, loyalty again, and I do think that it would have been nice of LB to include Richard
. I tend to think that LB isn’t the greatest friend per say, he strikes me, after reading many books, that he would be someone who would befriend you for his use and advantage, and then after time, would pull away. Out of sight, out of mind per say. Example, I’ve always wondered why LB never kept in touch or worked more with Richard, Ken, Ray Lindsey, etc. I guess what im saying, is LB doesn’t strike me as a good friend to have. Whereas Mick strikes me as someone who would never forget you or help you (if he could)
. Ken, in some ways, I think was a little harsh on LB, but then again, these stories have been re told by others, so it’s hard to find ways to defend LB
. At this point, since they are older, I tend to think that FM or LB doesn’t care what we think, and I guess they have earned that right.

Bottom line, it’s a little harder today, after reading this book, to admire LB the man, I still adore the Musician, but the man himself isn’t as pretty as I may have thought, and it’s a little sad, because I think he may have hurt a lot of people along the way, I really wish he would write a book, do a interview to defend himself, or work with some of his old partners again.

David

[Silver Springs]

Probably naive of me, and I don't expect anybody to agree; but I have a lot of faith in people changing. It's true that Lindsey had a lot of personal demons back in the day, and when you're that unhappy you behave in irrational and downright dangerous ways. Although there are stories out there of him appearing as a diva now (I think it's probably a case of him demanding the best in order to portray his passion at its best), I like to think he's changed for the better. He's always been a romantic type, and he has a family now. Maybe that's helped to pave over alot of his personal problems and fill in some of those missing pieces in his life? Alot of people might have negative things to say about him, but a hell of a lot have absolutely glowing compliments for him. It's all relative, I guess.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by Silver Springs

Alot of people might have negative things to say about him, but a hell of a lot have absolutely glowing compliments for him. It's all relative, I guess.

Really? I have not heard any glowing anecdotes about Lindsey. No, I have not searched for them, but it seems like all you hear about are these unsavory accounts from former associates and lovers. True, Stevie has had nice things to say about him, but it's mostly been something to the effect of "he's not as much of an a-hole since he got married and had kids." Not exactly glowing. Lindsey has received praise for his guitar mastery, music production and his energetic live performances. But Lindsey as a person? Not so much.

I think the Destiny Rules documentary is about as close as we are going to get to observing the behavior of the "evolved," modern-day Lindsey. He seems pleasant enough most of the time. But there also seems to be this uneasy calm about him that occasionally seeps through via the occasional backhanded compliment or dig couched as "constructive criticism," e.g., the Bob Dylan verb tense conversation with Stevie. Rather than becoming a genuinely nicer person, he just seems to have learned to smile as he kicks you in the shin. Nevertheless, it's light years' worth of evolution from strangling one's neck!

[Betsy]

David A:

I found your observations to be interesting and thought provoking. I have not read the book but will now be more inclined to purchase it and read it. Thank you.

I am of the same age group as LB. I work with people (also of the same age group), with whom I would never call a friend. The reason is that these particular people, are so driven, that were I to call to their attention, the unfriendly way our clients and co-workers are treated, there would utter astonishment.

There is no room for other people in their heads. They are too focused with the topic of "me being the center of the universe" that to even think of others is beyond their comprehension.

In LB's case, I think it the genius that adds to the isolation. No one quite speaks the same language as is what is in the genius's head.

[David A]

thanks Betsy

Its just srange, I feel a little disapointed in the fact that maybe I had LB on this pedestal, that he really shouldnt be and thats not HIS fault , its mine

Like the other poster said, it just seems as if LB and even FM for that matter, arent real nice people per say, then again The Eagles are a bunch of a holes for that matter, LOL, I didnt need Don Felders book to tell me that

Its just I wish LB would have been different, or how can I say, I dont know, maybe try and defend him self

I really admired him 100 % and now I am struggling with it, as he doesnt seem as someone I would like to be or have my kids be , thats harsh, but Kens book doesnt portray him in a good light

I wonder what Ken thinks about how this effects LB fans and even FM fans

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Silver Springs

Probably naive of me, and I don't expect anybody to agree; but I have a lot of faith in people changing.

He may have changed, I don't know. But even in the old days he had good qualities as well as bad qualities. Even then, he wasn't always angry or always difficult and even Ken's descriptions of the man, such as they are, make that fairly clear. He marveled at how boyish and playful Lindsey could be, detailing, for instance, the stupid nights they spent with Richard pouring liquor on each other's pants to make it seem like someone had urinated, contrasted with how uptight Lindsey could be in the studio. Just as Lindsey said Stevie in 1997 reminded him of the girl he used to live with, she has recalled the times when Lindsey used to be very sweet. Things aren't black and white. And never were.

Michele

[HejiraNYC]

You are making a moderator somewhere very, very unhappy!

[mylittledemon]

I have yet to read the book. Some of it may be embellished and some of it may not. It is a piece of entertainment, least of all. Lindsey is just as human as the rest of us... His personal life (and how he treated people) may have been a disaster but he was a total pro at his work and I think that's what Ken seems to be saying based on what you wrote. After all, Ken never had to like LB... he only had to work with him. Besides, I don't think any of us have ever really thought of LB being a total saint. And I don't think Ken would have any incentive to lie about LB. Even if the actual truth was that LB was a totally placid and laid-back guy to be around, the book would still sell what it's going to what with "Rumours" slapped on it.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

And I don't think Ken would have any incentive to lie about LB. Even if the actual truth was that LB was a totally placid and laid-back guy to be around, the book would still sell what it's going to what with "Rumours" slapped on it.

I don't think it would, seeing as some people here said they didn't want to buy it if it had too much tech talk in it. They wanted something more gossipy. Plus, Ken said that he lost one book deal because it didn't have enough dirt in it. I think there was a legal dispute as to whether or not he had to return the royalty advance. So, a mere discussion of Rumours is not going to have books flying off the shelves.

For the record to those who aren't interested because it may be too inside baseball, I'm not technical AT ALL and I'm not a musician and still it didn't have too much tech talk for me. Ha, I even understood one thing and I was very proud of myself: You know how you are supposed to connect the speakers, so that the + - from the speakers matches the + - on the receiver? Well, if you don't do this things sound bad. I know this from setting up my own sound system at home. So, when Ken figured out that the speakers weren't phased and that's why the sound was so washed out at FM's tour, I felt, "Oh, gee I could have told you that!" I should be FM's next engineer.

Michele

[ThePenguin]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

You are making a moderator somewhere very, very unhappy!

Nice point.

I know that people like a post to be seen by as many Ledgies as possible, but it actually facilitates discussion and future searches, if we don't have the same post in several forums. It's helpful to have everyone respond in one place. So, please don't cross-post. If the post is about Fleetwood Mac as a whole, then put it in the FM forum, even if you know more people will see it in the Stevie forum. Thank you.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

... Lindsey has received praise for his guitar mastery, music production and his energetic live performances. But Lindsey as a person? Not so much.

I think the Destiny Rules documentary is about as close as we are going to get to observing the behavior of the "evolved," modern-day Lindsey. He seems pleasant enough most of the time. But there also seems to be this uneasy calm about him that occasionally seeps through via the occasional backhanded compliment or dig couched as "constructive criticism," e.g., the Bob Dylan verb tense conversation with Stevie. Rather than becoming a genuinely nicer person, he just seems to have learned to smile as he kicks you in the shin. ....

Very nicely and eloquently put.

Something I have wondered about, (and of course, it is absolutely none of my business....)

There is the account of LB's performing and being very ill, later to be discovered that he had/has epilepsy. I presume it is under control with medication or perhaps his body has changed and he no longer has the ailment.

Wasn't its presence discovered during the Rumours era and maybe some of the unpleasant personality traits are side effects of the medication?

[sodascouts]

Any medication used to control seizures can cause a variety of side effects - different ones for different people. Some meds may cause a person to have mood swings and amp-up aggressive tendencies, even to the point of causing unpredictable irrational rages. Whenever a medication causes a person to have an extreme reaction like that, though, neurologists are quick to switch the patient off of it and try another one. They don't want their patients going psycho on them!

In Lindsey's case, however, his condition was discovered after they had finished making Rumours - 1978 or so, I believe. To the best of my knowledge, the only "medications" he was ingesting regularly at that time were marijuana and cocaine (usually the former, from most accounts, but who knows just how much he was doing or if anything else was thrown in there).

[shackin'up]

A controlfreak in an environment of chaos, drugs and equally big ego's can be a monster, I'm sure. It's nothing new to me; he has been an out of control character at times. I can only say that when I met him in 2008, I met a very pleasant, warm and genuinely interested man at ease and in balance. Not a cocky prick with control issues.

[starshine]

Originally Posted by David A

thanks Betsy

Its just srange, I feel a little disapointed in the fact that maybe I had LB on this pedestal, that he really shouldnt be and thats not HIS fault , its mine

Like the other poster said, it just seems as if LB and even FM for that matter, arent real nice people per say, then again The Eagles are a bunch of a holes for that matter, LOL, I didnt need Don Felders book to tell me that

Its just I wish LB would have been different, or how can I say, I dont know, maybe try and defend him self

I really admired him 100 % and now I am struggling with it, as he doesnt seem as someone I would like to be or have my kids be , thats harsh, but Kens book doesnt portray him in a good light

I wonder what Ken thinks about how this effects LB fans and even FM fans

I hear what your saying. I haven't read this 'new' book yet but I did read the Carol Harris book. It was interesting to say the least. I hadn't know that Lindsey could really get that violent. It was eye opening to say the least. I did also read Don Felders book about the Eagles. I like there music also but as people not so much anymore. I've liked Don Henley(his music) more than Glen Frey though. Can't stand Frey. Can't say I blame Felder for sueing them if they really tried to take 'all the $$' of course who knows really how much of the full true story we've gotten. I'm sure Frey/Henley will never speak about it. Walsh/Schmidt will keep there mouths shut cause well they are making some $$ but probably not the $$ that Frey/Henley make. They'll ride the gravey train til it ends. Plus they see what happended to Felder & don't want to go there.
Its disappointing when people we like aren't who we think they are. I also hope that Lindsey is a happier person than before. Sometimes I wonder about all of them. I never see any of them smile much. Stevie always seems unhappy in photos of her (posed ones for IYD) I do hope I'm wrong. Who knows ?? I guess only there true friends know. I know all these artists are human just like the rest of us. They still have to go to the restroom like we do (just maybe in a bigger larger more beautiful bathroom). Anyway, it is what it is. Well, I could keep rambling on but I won't hope you understand.....