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  #1  
Old 06-02-2018, 10:29 AM
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Question What if LB didn't go back to save the Mac in 97?

someone brought up SYW which made me think of the original GOS and all the wasted years and time LB had in waiting for the Mac.

what if he didn't listen to the label at the time and didn't go back then? FM would be playing small fairs now, if they'd even still exist. you know, always evolving and new band, the way Mick likes it!

original Gift of Screws was a masterpiece and should have been released as it was originally intended. in retrospect - although i know he would not agree plus he made tons of money because of it and he likes the FM legacy piece that he'd never had if they didn't reform and regain respect in the late 90s - Lindsey shouldn't have listened to the record label back in the 90s, and shouldn't have gone back to save FM from the laughing stock it became at that point. he should have released Gift and kept releasing solo stuff or collaborating with other people. his 20 last years could have been so much more productive if he was not repeatedly stifled by waiting for the Mac.
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Old 06-02-2018, 10:46 AM
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The reality is that OOTC didn’t sell much better than Time, and Street Angel was Stevie’s worst selling album. The combined sales numbers of all three would still have been a disaster by Fleetwood Mac standards. Be under no illusion, they all needed that reunion. The Dance didn’t save the band, it revived everyone’s failing careers.
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:21 AM
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The reality is that OOTC didn’t sell much better than Time, and Street Angel was Stevie’s worst selling album. The combined sales numbers of all three would still have been a disaster by Fleetwood Mac standards. Be under no illusion, they all needed that reunion. The Dance didn’t save the band, it revived everyone’s failing careers.
i'm not talking about sales or commercialism. the Dance saved Fleetwood Mac as a brand and a commercial entity, no doubt there.

LB needed that reunion if he wanted to be commercial again. but for his opus, that reunion screwed him up. so it depends what you mean as a career. his creative career got stifled and screwed, not saved by any means.

(you are the one talking about Richard Thompson all the time. and you seem more than happy with him having largely non-commercial career in recent decades. so i don't get why you think LB needs a commercial career?)

early 90s was the time of grunge. i'm not saying that LB's inertia and propensity to wait didn't add to all this. once when he decided he's not going for commercial anymore, which happened seemingly around the time of his Soundstage release or maybe right before Under The Skin, he became free and started releasing stuff... in the holes of time Mac allowed him.

Lindsey would have been just as unknown as he is now.

FM would have been playing fair circuit or not exist and would not have today's legendary status.

Stevie - hard to tell, she's always been a climber. she may have stayed a laughing stock or maybe she would have done eventually stuff like AHS anyway. but she most probably would have been far from a legendary icon she is now.

LB being back with the label now is once again screwing him up now. he should have taken the money he made with FM in the past and started his own little indie label. nurture some artists he cares about.
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Old 06-02-2018, 03:02 PM
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i'm not talking about sales or commercialism. the Dance saved Fleetwood Mac as a brand and a commercial entity, no doubt there.

LB needed that reunion if he wanted to be commercial again.
And that’s exactly why he did it. He wasn’t riding in on his white horse saving Fleetwood Mac, he was raising his own profile. They were all doing that, except Christine, who was going out on a high note.

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but for his opus, that reunion screwed him up. so it depends what you mean as a career. his creative career got stifled and screwed, not saved by any means.
The fact that he recruited Mick, John and Christine to back him up tells me that he approached the project in a way that gave it durability as to how it could be released from the gitgo. Otherwise, why bother going there? He knew that the situation at the label was fluid as far as his music was concerned.

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(you are the one talking about Richard Thompson all the time. and you seem more than happy with him having largely non-commercial career in recent decades. so i don't get why you think LB needs a commercial career?)
Richard has always rejected commercialism. He turned down The Eagles. He was always on a more intrinsic, cultural journey with his music. Lindsey was part of one of the most commercial bands ever, and sought commercial success/fame and fortune.

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LB being back with the label now is once again screwing him up now. he should have taken the money he made with FM in the past and started his own little indie label. nurture some artists he cares about.
I don’t disagree. Why anyone with a big enough name would go that route anymore is puzzling, especially someone like Lindsey, who isn’t especially commercial, which is part of his appeal.
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Old 06-02-2018, 03:50 PM
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And that’s exactly why he did it. He wasn’t riding in on his white horse saving Fleetwood Mac, he was raising his own profile. They were all doing that, except Christine, who was going out on a high note.
actually, you are projecting what you want to see, on both Lindsey and Christine (and sure, i'm also talking about what *i*want to see, here). if he refused, there would be no saving the Fleetwood Mac. the other 4 were there for the start of the Mac demise, so their reunion would have been meaningless without LB.

Rob Cavallo said that he / record company practically forced LB's hand. he was gonna go out with the solo album, and tried couple of times - first time they told him he should do FM reunion / the Dance instead since he's been inactive. next time when he tried putting it out again (in 2001), they told him to wait (for SN's solo stuff that she was doing, riding the reunion coattails solo instead of recording with the band - whoever was managing her was a genius!) and put it out as SYW. i'm not saying he went with it completely unwillingly, but what i am saying is that his products would have been much stronger if he released them solo instead of SYW. and there would have been more products instead of a practically a decade wait for FM / SN solo. yes, less people would hear it, but let's face it - other than Peacekeeper which was played extensively on the mainstream radio, nobody other than FM hardcores knows other SYW songs.

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The fact that he recruited Mick, John and Christine to back him up tells me that he approached the project in a way that gave it durability as to how it could be released from the gitgo. Otherwise, why bother going there?
wouldn't be the first time he recruited them for solo stuff - starting from Trouble. these were his friends / family, people he knew. he recruited them for other projects too, like SN for Egan stuff. Mick may have had ulterior motives, but as far as LB goes, looking at all of this now, he was mostly just emotional and stupid or went with familiar and many many times got screwed by macsters as far as his output goes.

although like i said above, in the 90s he still had aspirations as far as being commercial artist, he let that go only in the early 2000s (and therefore, Castaway Dreams).

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Richard has always rejected commercialism. He turned down The Eagles. He was always on a more intrinsic, cultural journey with his music. Lindsey was part of one of the most commercial bands ever, and sought commercial success/fame and fortune.

I don’t disagree. Why anyone with a big enough name would go that route anymore is puzzling, especially someone like Lindsey, who isn’t especially commercial, which is part of his appeal.
glad you don't disagree. going with the label has downsides as far as the output goes, and as we can see with this newest FM clusterf*ck after label changed the order and dates of his solo releases. that said, i think label has been good to BuckVie and they did push them nicely. so he won there, but so far is not winning as far as the solo side goes. we'll see.

i mean don't get me wrong, i don't think LB would agree with me for a second. i think he's probably more-less happy with the path he took, money he made, plus he's probably thinking karma etc. this is just my opinion as a fan of his music, someone who sees i could have gotten so much more from him if he never went back to FM. on the other hand, i've never heard of him before seeing Second Hand News from the Dance on MTV in the 90s, so if he never rejoined i may have never knows any of his music!
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Old 06-02-2018, 04:00 PM
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meanwhile, and talking about The Dance, pbs will be showing it multiple times starting from tonight -

In 1997, the members of Fleetwood Mac — Lindsey Buckingham, Mick Fleetwood, Christine McVie, John McVie and Stevie Nicks — reunited for its first full-length concert since 1982 to commemorate the anniversary of their phenomenally successful album Rumours. Filmed over three nights in an intimate setting at a sound stage in Los Angeles, the band performed songs that have since become among the best known in rock history, including “Don’t Stop,” “The Chain,” “Go Your Own Way,” and “Dreams” as well as new songs, including "Bleed to Love Her" and "Temporary One."
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CHECK YOUR LOCAL PBS STATION FOR DATES AND TIMES. BEGINS AIRING IN SOME PARTS OF THE COUNTRY TODAY WITH MULTIPLE REPEATS THROUGH JUNE 8TH

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Old 06-02-2018, 06:13 PM
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[quote=elle;1230029]meanwhile, and talking about The Dance, pbs will be showing it multiple times starting from tonight -

They are marketing the hell out of the Rumours Lineup--luring people in that this is who they will see on the tour......and WHAM--2 ringers will be up there. I will say, the folks in their marketing department are not idiots. It's just some other folks associated with the band that are
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:15 PM
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Default The Dance

Even though he first did the acoustic solo of Big Love on the OOTC tour, it was that performance on The Dance that propelled Lindsey to legendary status.
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:36 PM
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Even though he first did the acoustic solo of Big Love on the OOTC tour, it was that performance on The Dance that propelled Lindsey to legendary status.
The Dance is a great album--some of the greatest performances, imo--are on this album. "My Little Demon" and I totally forgot he did "Go Insane" (yes I am watching it right now) They didn't include on the album but Stevie's GDW on the filmed concert is by far my favorite. I can't handle the crack head dance. I also miss Gypsy how it was intended (or close to it---without the "Hey Baby's")
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:04 PM
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They are marketing the hell out of the Rumours Lineup--luring people in that this is who they will see on the tour......and WHAM--2 ringers will be up there. I will say, the folks in their marketing department are not idiots. It's just some other folks associated with the band that are
They’ve been using The Dance for PBS pledge drives for twenty years, now. It has nothing to do with marketing the upcoming tour.
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:16 PM
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actually, you are projecting what you want to see, on both Lindsey and Christine (and sure, i'm also talking about what *i*want to see, here). if he refused, there would be no saving the Fleetwood Mac. the other 4 were there for the start of the Mac demise, so their reunion would have been meaningless without LB.
From my perspective as a fan of Fleetwood Mac, when it was clear that Mick wasn’t a complete wreck anymore, Lindsey, still smarting from tanking as a solo artist, made his move to get back in the band while another version of Fleetwood Mac was still active. They were supposed to do a proper tour behind the album in early 1996, but Lindsey dangled the carrot. And then Stevie got on board…

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Rob Cavallo said that he / record company practically forced LB's hand. he was gonna go out with the solo album, and tried couple of times - first time they told him he should do FM reunion / the Dance instead since he's been inactive.
He had just toured in 1993. He hadn’t been that inactive, especially by their standards.

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next time when he tried putting it out again (in 2001), they told him to wait (for SN's solo stuff that she was doing, riding the reunion coattails solo instead of recording with the band - whoever was managing her was a genius!)
He could have released it as a solo album in 1999 or 2000 and still wouldn’t have been competing with Stevie. Something, maybe the situation at the label, maybe first time fatherhood, maybe a mix of different factors, kept him from going that route, and it really can’t be blamed on Stevie or the band. He CHOSE not to release it as a solo album.

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wouldn't be the first time he recruited them for solo stuff - starting from Trouble. these were his friends / family, people he knew. he recruited them for other projects too, like SN for Egan stuff. Mick may have had ulterior motives, but as far as LB goes, looking at all of this now, he was mostly just emotional and stupid or went with familiar and many many times got screwed by macsters as far as his output goes.
Yeah, but not like that. Before, Mick, Christine, and Lindsey all made cameos on each other’s albums. When Mick’s involvement was announced (prior to the announcement of Fleetwood Mac’s breakup), it was clear that he was going to be an integral part of the project, not just making a few cameos. And then “Twisted” came out a month or so later.
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:41 PM
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He had just toured in 1993. He hadn’t been that inactive, especially by their standards.

He could have released it as a solo album in 1999 or 2000 and still wouldn’t have been competing with Stevie. Something, maybe the situation at the label, maybe first time fatherhood, maybe a mix of different factors, kept him from going that route, and it really can’t be blamed on Stevie or the band. He CHOSE not to release it as a solo album.
lol it's just your interpretation that he chose so i'm not really sure why you are choosing to do all caps for it?

it was Rob Cavallo's words, not mine, about being inactive. it was from 1993 through 1997 i guess, which may have been a long time then, even though in snail current FM pace 4 years might not be long. but yeah, you can argue with Cavallo about that.

have you ever seen Lindsey's Behind the Music? that's where those quotes i'm talking about are from. also at the time, that BTM is all about his upcoming solo album. it ends with - "the solo album is coming!" he obviously tried to do it, and we have no idea how much of his choice it was to eventually roll it into FM after all. fatherhood had nothing to do it at that point, they show his 2 kids in that BTM. everyone else had kids and works, i really don't get why people keep bringing that up as some kind of impediment for the members of this band.
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:43 PM
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Even though he first did the acoustic solo of Big Love on the OOTC tour, it was that performance on The Dance that propelled Lindsey to legendary status.
interestingly, the PBS thing doesn't show Big Love performance.
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:53 PM
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lol it's just your interpretation that he chose so i'm not really sure why you are choosing to do all caps for it?
Because it ultimately was his choice.

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have you ever seen Lindsey's Behind the Music? that's where those quotes i'm talking about are from. also at the time, that BTM is all about his upcoming solo album. it ends with - "the solo album is coming!" he obviously tried to do it, and we have no idea how much of his choice it was to eventually roll it into FM after all.
However, that decision wasn’t up to the others. Mick, Stevie, and John had no say as to whether or not Lindsey released a solo album. They could only agree to have it become a Fleetwood Mac album.

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fatherhood had nothing to do it at that point, they show his 2 kids in that BTM. everyone else had kids and works, i really don't get why people keep bringing that up as some kind of impediment for the members of this band.
Because Lindsey is always talking about profound things. He would be the most able to take a break from music to enjoy fatherhood. Mick and John have to work when they can, but Lindsey was in a place where he didn’t have to. I dunno. He could and maybe should have just released it in 1999-2000. Then he could have started from scratch with Stevie and done the type of album he’s been wanting to do since SYW.
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:54 PM
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They’ve been using The Dance for PBS pledge drives for twenty years, now. It has nothing to do with marketing the upcoming tour.
I usually don't watch PBS so had no idea---either way, rather fortuitous
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