SYW, best album of all time?

[caroline79]

Originally Posted by David

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I have another problem with Say You Will: it just sounds so studied & humorless. I guess you could call Come kind of witty, but then why is it so long? There's bad judgment all over Say You Will. Rumours & Tusk also have that very charming devil-may-care quality -- they give the impression of being spontaneous & casual. But Say You Will is portentous & kind of plodding. I don't think Fleetwood Mac is very good with such serious pop art -- they should be breezy & casual & witty. That's Stevie's & Lindsey's failing, too, as solo album writers & singers. Lindsey's first album was so dang cute because it was so goofy, but what happened to that Lindsey? I think he just got pissed off.

I think FM is great at making breezy and casual songs that can also be very meaningful to people. Like Louie said, they lost their "bridge" (Christine) which makes SYW sound very different from their albums. Sure they don't have as many casual pop songs but I also think that has to do with them growing older and having a different outlook on the world.
I find Lindsey's first album so goofy that it's hard for me to listen to it. For example, Johnny Stew? I get that it's just a fun, goofy song but hearing him growl and scream during the middle of it is just strange and not what I want to here.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by caroline79

I find Lindsey's first album so goofy that it's hard for me to listen to it. For example, Johnny Stew? I get that it's just a fun, goofy song but hearing him growl and scream during the middle of it is just strange and not what I want to here.

I agree that the monster voice intoning "Stewww, Stewww," is not exactly the type of thing you want to sing along to. Yet, somehow I never took it as a goofy song. I guess because of the production. That was the real tribute to John Stewart and I think it was extraordinary. But definitely, I don't think it is a particularly user friendly song.

Michele

[markolas]

I loved SYW when it first came out, but now I think it doesn't hold together as an album too well, and it has several songs I don't like (mostly Stevie's).

Out of LB's songs, I really like Miranda, Say Goodbye, & Bleed to Love Her. WTWCT, Peacekeeper, & SYHA are okay; sometimes I really like Rover & Murrow, other times they annoy the hell out of me. Come is a totally overblown piece of crap, IMO.

Most of SN's songs on this album make me want to wretch. I would probably really like Illume if not for Lindsey's Zelda Rubinstein routine at the end; I keep expecting him to tell the children to go into the light.

RTTG and Destiny Rules are really the only songs of hers from this album that I regularly listen to anymore. Smile at You isn't terrible, but it annoys me after a while; I never thought it was one of her better songs to begin with. Thrown Down bores the hell out of me; I love the TISL version, tho. The rest of her songs on here are kinda "meh" for me.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by David

That appears to be the Phrase of the Day on the Ledge, but I still don't know whether it's a compliment or an insult. I should check the Urban Dictionary.

Oh David, I have a friend that uses that phrase constantly. I want to strangle him every time he utters it!

PLEASE STOP SAYING HOT MESS. It's STUPID, and TIRED. It's soooo 2009!

[jbrownsjr]

I honestly think this album is/was a huge flop, let alone best of all time. It doesn't sound like a band album. The opening song is embarassing. The hits are weak. The tracks don't go together well. The running order is a disaster. The length of the album is tiring. The vocals are absolute rubbish. It sounds very very forced and a bit dated even when it was released. The production of Stevie's voice at times leads me to think someone should have been fired.

I loved the bonus track and put that disk in more than the main disk.

I've tried to love this album, but I'll take GOS any day over this forced tired set of songs.

[caroline79]

Originally Posted by McTrouble

It's my favourite FM album too!

I think it is sublime - with the exception of just a couple of Stevie's songs.

I adore all Lindsey's songs on here, and unlike a lot of people I really really love Say Goodbye!

Finally, someone who understands! What makes it your favorite? I'm curious!

Originally Posted by Dodfather

Say You Will is pretty great in parts. As others have said, Thrown Down is, for me, the standout track and a real gem! It's the best Mac song Stevie had done since Gypsy - just superb. Yes, the album is patchy but I think if you removed 4-5 tracks it could have been pretty stellar.

Now, just what would those 4-5 tracks be?? Let battle commence! I think/hope we can all agree on Silver Girl though... No, Stevie, No!!

Definitely agree! Hmmm...I would get rid of Murrow (I absolutely love it but feels somewhat misplaced on the album), Silver Girl (Don't hate it as much as everyone else!), Goodbye Baby and Say Goodbye.

Originally Posted by michelej1

I agree that the monster voice intoning "Stewww, Stewww," is not exactly the type of thing you want to sing along to. Yet, somehow I never took it as a goofy song. I guess because of the production. That was the real tribute to John Stewart and I think it was extraordinary. But definitely, I don't think it is a particularly user friendly song.

Michele

Maybe goofy is the wrong word..."user friendly" works much better. I can't really appreciate the song because I barely know who John Stewart is...and even if I did, I still don't think I would like it

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I honestly think this album is/was a huge flop, let alone best of all time. It doesn't sound like a band album. The opening song is embarassing. The hits are weak. The tracks don't go together well. The running order is a disaster. The length of the album is tiring. The vocals are absolute rubbish. It sounds very very forced and a bit dated even when it was released. The production of Stevie's voice at times leads me to think someone should have been fired.

I loved the bonus track and put that disk in more than the main disk.

I've tried to love this album, but I'll take GOS any day over this forced tired set of songs.

I don't think the album sounds forced, I actually think they sound more like a band on it then they had during Tusk, Mirage and Tango. I still love those albums but they sound very disconnected from each other.

Sure there are songs on this album that sound like they would work better on solo CD's but on Illume, Thrown Down, Miranda, Say You Will, Peacekeeper and EFO they sound very united. Even to a lesser degree WWTCT, RTHG and Destiny Rules both presences are still felt.

I have yet to hear the two bonus songs, will have to check them out!

[jbrownsjr]

^^^ yeah check out the bonus disc.. I think you'll dig it.. I guess we disagree on the band/forced issues.. but tis very subjective..

[McTrouble]

[QUOTE=caroline79;989337]Finally, someone who understands! What makes it your favorite? I'm curious!



I think it's because I saw the Live In Boston show before I bought the SYW CD. I immediately adored all the SYW songs done live so it was a foregone conclusion that I was gonna love the CD!

[Bandon]

Originally Posted by caroline79

I think Say You Will might be my favorite Fleetwood Mac CD. It's weird because I wouldn't have thought it would be, I actually dreaded even listening to it thinking I would hate it so much.

I have been listening to it non-stop lately. Even with Christine gone I think it works. Songs I didn't like at first I have grown to absolutely love. I think it's completely crazy that I think this though!

There's no real Christine.

There's not as many harmonies, just echoing each other (as someone mentioned before).

I don't like the last 2 songs.

It took me a long time to like a lot of the songs.
Yet I love this CD. I love their matured voices. I love the order of the songs. I love that it is so different then anything they have done before, IMO.

Anyone else feel this way, or am I the only one?

It should not take a long time to like a lot of songs on any album. I think it's always interesting when fans say this about an album. I guess if you listen to anything over and over, it can grow on you whether its subpair or not. This CD was a frankenstein effort with Lindsey attempting to make another double CD with some good tracks, but mostly odd-ball, bland, non-accessible stuff. Much of Stevies tunes weren't much better. The best example was the distruction of Smile at You. Where were Christine and Richard Dashut when you needed them?

[caroline79]

Originally Posted by Bandon

It should not take a long time to like a lot of songs on any album. I think it's always interesting when fans say this about an album. I guess if you listen to anything over and over, it can grow on you whether its subpair or not. This CD was a frankenstein effort with Lindsey attempting to make another double CD with some good tracks, but mostly odd-ball, bland, non-accessible stuff. Much of Stevies tunes weren't much better. The best example was the distruction of Smile at You. Where were Christine and Richard Dashut when you needed them?

I think their is a difference. Yes I am a fan and yes there were songs that I loved at first, but some I did not. Songs like Murrow and Come I listened to the beginning, wasn't big on it, and skipped it. It wasn't until I really listened and began to understand what the song meant until I loved it. And yes, I loved it. When I first heard the CD I was very much into young FM and already went in with the mindset that I wasn't going to like these songs, but I was wrong.
I use Lindsey's first solo album as an example of how something can grow on you, but you may not love it. I can listen to it but I will never love a lot of those songs. They are just too strange, hold little meaning to me personally and I don't like how they sound.

Sure the Smile At You demo may have been better, but wasn't that Stevie's decision to tone it down and not make it sound so angry?

Fleetwood Mac has such a large collection of music and some songs don't even song like they are from the same band! And the only song I really dislike is Empire State

[chiliD]

The beauty of albums like SYW (I'll even throw Tusk & the Beatles' White Album into that pile) is that there is so much material that each person can pretty much make the album be what they want it to be. As is, the album's tracking order just bites the big one; but thanks to technology, we can give the album's tunes a more personal (or "better", or "pleasing") tracking order.

Considering the wealth of material that Lindsey had from the original GOS sessions, I could swap out songs with some of those...so MY Say You Will has this as its tracking order:

Say You Will
Bleed To Love Her
Thrown Down (the wall of sound version)
To Try For The Sun (sometimes I'll swap it out for "Red Rover" here)
Destiny Rules
What's The World Coming To
Illume
Murrow Turning Over In His Grave
Peacekeeper
Everybody Finds Out
Miranda
Smile At You
Steal Your Heart Away
Not Make Believe
Down On Rodeo
Goodbye Baby

Originally Posted by Bandon

The best example was the distruction of Smile at You.

I just continually fail to understand how ANYBODY can prefer subpar "demo" versions of "Smile At You" ("angry" or whatever...they all are poorly recorded and the performances are worse than "amateur") over the obviously mega-superior version on SYW. Without McVie's bass line that is on the final SYW version, that song fails on SO MANY levels.

[McTrouble]

Originally Posted by caroline79

I think their is a difference. Yes I am a fan and yes there were songs that I loved at first, but some I did not. Songs like Murrow and Come I listened to the beginning, wasn't big on it, and skipped it. It wasn't until I really listened and began to understand what the song meant until I loved it. And yes, I loved it. When I first heard the CD I was very much into young FM and already went in with the mindset that I wasn't going to like these songs, but I was wrong.
I use Lindsey's first solo album as an example of how something can grow on you, but you may not love it. I can listen to it but I will never love a lot of those songs. They are just too strange, hold little meaning to me personally and I don't like how they sound.

Sure the Smile At You demo may have been better, but wasn't that Stevie's decision to tone it down and not make it sound so angry?

Fleetwood Mac has such a large collection of music and some songs don't even song like they are from the same band! And the only song I really dislike is Empire State

And isn't it fantastic that every album is totally different!

Too many bands churn out records that all sound the same - Fleetwood Mac has never done that, thank goodness!

And even though each album is different they still retain the FM magic every time!

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by Bandon

It should not take a long time to like a lot of songs on any album. I think it's always interesting when fans say this about an album. I guess if you listen to anything over and over, it can grow on you whether its subpair or not.

I'm certainly one of those who didn't like SYW on first listen. I put it in the CD player and went "what the hell is this?".

By the time I had bought SYW I owned every FM studio album plus all the solo works by Stevie, Lindsey, Christine and a couple of albums by Peter Green, Bob Welch and Dave Mason. SYW wasn't like any of those albums that came before it, I wasn't a big Lindsey fan, and while I generally liked the Stevie songs the Lindsey songs took me by complete surprise.

It took a few listens for the album to grow on me, and a few more years for my music taste to grow and change to really appreciate the Lindsey songs on this album.

I admit there are some albums that you love the moment you hear them, that you constantly played on repeat from the very minute you took it out of the cd case. SYW wasn't one of those, but it certainly isn't "subpar".

Oh and finally, in my opinion, Love Minus Zero/No Limit is the worst of the four Dylan covers done by Fleetwood Mac members/ex members (and Just Like A Woman wasn't a very good attempt by Stevie).

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by caroline79

I can't really appreciate the song because I barely know who John Stewart is...and even if I did, I still don't think I would like it

Well he wrote Daydream Believer if that helps.

He was more than that though, he was one of the most important contributors to folk music and perhaps the least known.

Mention Woodie Guthrie, Joan Baez, Pete Seeger, Bob Dylan and the like and people know their names and at least some of the impact on not only folk music but the whole of America in that late 50's - early 60's period. Mention John Stewart and most people remember he did a song with Stevie Nicks.

[aleuzzi]

Wow, such a polarized, love-it-or-hate-it response to SYW.

I actually like the record a lot. Although it does not hold a candle to Fleetwood Mac, Rumours, or Tusk, and it lacks two crucial ingredients of the Rumours-era Mac albums--joy and humor--it still provides a substantial body of songs. And it is miles above Behind the Mask and a good deal of Time.

My impressions of it are mixed, but fundamentally positive. There are enough strong songs and performances by both leads to merit its existence. In my opinion, the middle of it sags. "Come," "Silver Girl" and "Smile at You" are all pretty insufferable, as is Buckingham's "What's the World..." and Nicks's "Goodbye." The two "hits"--"Peacekeeper" and "Say You Will" are dull.

But we're left with some amazing songs. "Red Rover," "Murrow," "Say Goodbye," "Bleed to Love Her," and "Steal Your Heart Away" are all really strong Buckingham songs.

Nicks weighs in with "Illume," "Everybody Finds Out," "Destiny Rules," and "Throw Down."

The good stuff stacks up.

In spirit the album kind of reminds me of Then Play On--two very different songwriters with very different approaches to music shore up the record. The result is an intriguing if occasionally frustrating fragmentation.