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  #76  
Old 04-12-2018, 01:08 PM
jeets2000 jeets2000 is offline
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Originally Posted by elle View Post
the alternative would be that she was plotting this for years. now that would be truly sad.
I’m not sure I believe this, and I feel like a bit of a conspiracy theorist even writing it, but my mind keeps going back to the power dynamic in the band. (Also: full disclosure, I have been unable to keep up with every post in the past week, so if someone has already floated this theory, feel free to insult/ignore.)

Stevie famously did not enjoy what she felt was the overly masculine nature of the band, specifically the live performances, during the 2003/04 tour. A few years later, before the Unleashed tour, the Sheryl Crow trial balloon was floated and subsequently popped, from all accounts, by Lindsey. God knows Mick (and John ) doesn't seem to care who comes and goes from his namesake band and the idea of adding Crow could have tapped them into new audiences, ultimately leading to more $$$. But Mick and John, despite it being their band, were almost secondary members in that era (presumably they felt they couldn't tour with just Lindsey or just Stevie).

Is it possible that the seed was planted even then (2008) for all of this? Obviously there was no way of knowing Christine would come back. But Stevie lost that face off because she and Lindsey were on equal footing in 2008. When that dynamic changed, they got one tour under the belts, but at the first sign of tension, she pulled the ripcord. I agree with Elle's post in the Lindsey forum -- I don't think this is about money for Stevie.

I know it sounds nuts, and like I said, I'm not sure even I believe this, but I can't for the life of me figure out what could have triggered the move to fire LB. It's too extreme for a disagreement over tour dates, to me at least.
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Old 04-12-2018, 01:25 PM
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  #77  
Old 04-12-2018, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by The Catdancer View Post


Second there's the abuse. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that Lindsey physically abused her. I'm a victim of domestic violence myself and I know the signs, I know the looks. It's scary. And very stressful to work with someone who has abused you in the past. An example of the fear: I hadn't talked to/seen my ex in 15 years and all of a sudden there's a message from him on Facebook. It's been 15 years, I'm in the USA, he's in Europe. I have nothing to fear, he's a million miles away. That's not how it works. I was scared to death. I had to rationalize my thoughts.
I've seen footage of a concert in 1979 where Lindsey grabs Stevie during Angel and she was scared. You could see it in her eyes. She was scared to death. I wish I knew of a way to post it here. However, having said that, she also said, years later, that when she saw him with his kids she made a huge mistake letting him go...
+1000. They may have each sought treatment for their issues but they've never been treated for the issues between them. PTSD and other issues can pop back up after years of being dormant. I am not saying that this is the case but I do know that at the age of 70 I would not be trilled to have to work with an ex for months on end. Somewhere between Classic East and Musicares is where things really started to go off the rails. The reviews said he played and uninspired set at Classic East and he acted like a bit of an as$ solo on the red carpet at Musicares. There are photos and video. You can see it more in the video. I will find it later and post.
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  #78  
Old 04-12-2018, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rhiannondontgo View Post
While she’s a narcissistic, b*tchy diva for sure (and I don’t mean that as an insult, I actually find it entertaining most the time. It kinda makes me just like her more), she definitely isn’t dumb. She’s been sick of him for years now and has done just fine pretending there’s still love there and playing up the whole Buckingham Nicks fantasy love affair for the crowd. She planned all of that scripted love BS on her own. I even remember Linds in an article in the early 2000’s talking about how Stevie and Mick came to him with the idea to put their microphones closer together and have them come up with pre-planned affectionate gestures. The woman knows how to play the game and the goal is always the same: get as much money & positive attention as possible. Anything with Buckingham Nicks involved is guaranteed to do well, but now the stakes have gotten even higher with the full rumours line up reunited. She absolutely knows that her pay raises exponentially as long as all 5 are present and she wouldn’t pass that up. Neither would Mick. They have no real motive to wake up one day and boot him out for no reason. She has nothing to gain. Less money. More negative publicity. It would be pointless.
If she just wanted to tour with a heartbreaker, she’d add them to her solo band. If she had no intention of touring with Lindsey, she would not have willingly signed on to be contractually obligated to another FM tour (and yes, Lindsey was still assumed to be part of this when she signed on).
I still firmly believe the most likely situation was they signed on for the tour fully expecting to go out as the full band and when arguments arose (which they always do, whether it’s over scheduling, set lists, pay grades, or whatever else), it just got out of control and for whatever reason, they just couldn’t work together again at this point.
While I don't appreciate your language towards Stevie, I agree with your argument. I think the band imploded, as usual, not that there was some conspiracy to kick Lindsey out.

How long have we been waiting for a tour announcement? We all expected the Buckingham McVie album to be a Fleetwood Mac album, and I think we were all surprised (albeit pleasently so) when Lindsey and Christine went on tour. Stevie extended her tour as well and everyone seemed happy. Everyone got what they wanted out of the past few years (well, us fans excluded, of course). Lindsey, Christine, Mick and Stevie all publicly mentioned the upcoming Fleetwood Mac tour and everyone seemed to be on board that it would be happening around this time. We've all been waiting for an announcement or some indication that the band is rehearsing or... anything! And the lack of announcement has fueled rumors that there was trouble brewing below the surface. Now we see the result.
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  #79  
Old 04-12-2018, 03:39 PM
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I really think people need to stop speculating or acting as if they know what could've happened behind closed doors in regards to a relationship that ended over 40 years ago. There's literally no way anyone who wasn't right there could know.
And I 100% think that Lindsey getting kicked out had nothing to do with anything from decades ago. That's practically an entirely different world to them now and they've been through a whole lot and gone through new experiences since then.
Something went down NOW. Maybe he threw a fit over them playing the same old songs, realistically he probably did want them to delay the tour so he could work on solo music because playing those same old songs was ~stifling his creativity~. Whatever it was, Stevie probably got pissed and it all went downhill from there resulting in where we're at now.
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  #80  
Old 04-12-2018, 05:15 PM
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Default FM's split with LB could be band's most damaging

and the muddying of the facts and speculations is successfully continuing..........

http://www.kansascity.com/entertainm...208690854.html

Fleetwood Mac's split with Lindsey Buckingham could be band's most damaging

BY TIMOTHY FINN

tfinn@kcstar.com
April 12, 2018 01:53 PM

Fleetwood Mac is waging a dicey bet that its beloved hit songs are more popular than its most vital member.

When the band hits the road later this year, Lindsey Buckingham will not be present. Monday, Fleetwood Mac bomb-shelled the music world by announcing it had parted ways with Buckingham, arguably the band’s centerpiece for the past 40-plus years. It wasn’t explicitly clear if Buckingham quit or was fired (although the consensus was that Buckingham was given his walking papers).

In his place, the band hired Mike Campbell, guitarists for Tom Petty’s Heartbreakers, and Neil Finn, instrumentalist and vocalist for Crowded House, Split Enz and the Finn Brothers.

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We’ve witnessed this scenario before with Fleetwood Mac. In 1987, Buckingham left the band (creative differences) and was replaced by sidemen Billy Burnette and Rick Vito. He returned 10 years later, for a reunion tour, and remained with the band until this week.

And even before Buckingham and Stevie Nicks joined the band in 1975, Fleetwood Mac went through several significant departures, including Jeremy Spencer and Bob Welch.

This puts Fleetwood Mac among a growing group of classic-rock bands touring with replacement members. The Eagles just visited the Sprint Center with their latest lineup, which includes only one founding member, Don Henley.

When co-founder Glenn Frey died in January 2016, it seemed likely that the Eagles were done as a touring band — until they announced in 2017 they’d enlisted Vince Gill and Frey’s son, Deacon Frey, to fill in alongside Joe Walsh, Timothy B. Schmit and several touring musicians.

Reviews of the Eagles’ tour have been glowing. Gill is a natural fit for the Eagles’ sound, and Frey resembles his father, vocally and physically.

Likewise, when Brian May and Roger Taylor of Queen hired former American Idol contestant Adam Lambert to fill in for the late Freddie Mercury (and tour as Queen + Adam Lambert), even skeptics were impressed with the results. Same with the Who: Roger Daltrey and Pete Townshend delivered a worthwhile show when they visited the Sprint Center in April 2016.

The list goes on: AC/DC is down to one founding member, lead guitarist Angus Young, and is now on its third lead singer, Axl Rose.

Donald Fagen is coming to Starlight Theatre later this year, touring as Steely Dan, though his co-founder, Walter Becker, died in September. The opener for that show: the Doobie Brothers, who are down to two founding members, Tom Johnston and Patrick Simmons.

There is plenty of precedent for Fleetwood Mac’s move, but Buckingham’s departure feels different. For one thing, he didn’t die. For another, he is the primary force behind the band’s live shows, as a vocalist, a guitarist and a stage presence.

He had a heavy influence on the band’s studio sound, especially on the “Tusk” album, which took the band’s sound away from the crisp, polished pop sounds of its blockbuster predecessor, “Rumours.” He also proved himself as a solo artist on his first two albums, “Law and Order” and the ecstatically unhinged “Go Insane.”

Lindsay B Fleetwood Mac.JPG
Lindsey Buckingham, a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame band Fleetwood Mac, rehearses with band mate Christine McVie at Sony Studios in Culver City on Wednesday, May 17, 2017. Buckingham is leaving the band and won't be joining them on tour.

Campbell is as good a guitarist as any and should be able to approximate Buckingham’s playing, though they have distinctly different styles. As a friend put it: “(Buckingham) is a finger-picker. Good luck with ‘Big Love.’”

But Campbell alone could bring in some Petty fans in need of a Heartbreakers fix. Plus there is a connection between the two bands. Petty was Nicks’ duet partner on “Stop Dragging My Heart Around,” one of her biggest solo singles. And Buckingham sang background vocals on “Walls (Circus),” a track from Petty and the Heartbreakers’ “She’s The One” soundtrack.

Finn is a refined vocalist and musician who could elevate Fleetwood Mac’s sound much like Gill did the Eagles’, but he is not widely known among mainstream rock fans.

The new ensemble no doubt will faithfully re-create the hits and favorites. But some things can’t be replicated, starting with the history and chemistry between Buckingham and Nicks, an often tumultuous relationship that goes back to the early ’70s and their pre-Mac “Buckingham Nicks” album.

Nicks singing "Go Your Own Way," Buckingham's diatribe about the end of their romance, won't be the same with Finn on the other end.

Fleetwood Mac withstood Christine McVie's departure from the band from 1998 to 2014, but her absence altered their live shows. The band performed twice at the Sprint Center during her retirement, in May 2009 and April 2013. In that 2009 show, they performed two of McVie's songs, "Say You Love Me" and "Don't Stop," her duet with Buckingham.

In the 2013 show they performed only "Don't Stop." Will they cut most of Buckingham's songs from the upcoming tour? That seems unfathomable, nearly as unfathomable as watching someone else perform them.

In the wake of the split, stories have arisen about Buckingham and his behavior within the group and toward Nicks and other women. The Washington Post this week ran a story about Buckingham that asked if he was “rock’s biggest jerk or misunderstood genius?”

All seemed well earlier this year. In January the group convened in New York to perform after accepting the MusicCares Person of the Year.

During his speech, Buckingham told the audience why the band thrived despite all the turmoil: "Not very far below that level of dysfunction is what really exists, and what we are feeling even more now in our career, which is love. This has always been a group of chemistry."

That chemistry has been altered dramatically, and now the rest of the band is betting that it can go forward and thrive on their fans' love for those many great songs and the memories they arouse. At this point, the odds seem stacked against them.

Lindsey Buckingham, a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame band Fleetwood Mac, rehearses with band mate Christine McVie at Sony Studios in Culver City on Wednesday, May 17, 2017. Buckingham is leaving the band and won't be joining them on tour. Tribune News Service
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  #81  
Old 04-12-2018, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by The Catdancer View Post
So here's my take on this whole mess. And you might not be interested because I haven't been here in years but here goes. I think it's a combination of things. This didn't just come out of the blue and like someone said:"They didn't wake up one day and said:"Oh, let's make Lindsey's life hell".

First there's the matter of jealousy. I think Miss Nicks couldn't stand it that they made a record without her despite the fact that she said in the press that she wished them all the best. If she did, than why wasn't it called a Fleetwood Mac album? Because that's what it was, it had 4 members on it. But for whatever reason, it wasn't called Fleetwood Mac. So they called it Buckingham McVie. That's a slap in her face, it refers back to Buckingham Nicks.
Lindsey & Christine worked together which was pretty successful. Go back to the old days when Lindsey & Stevie first joined the band and Lindsey wrote World Turning with Christine. She was extremely jealous. I remember reading back then that she said:"He can write a song with her but not with me". That got her pissed off (although they did write Frozen Love together but I don't know the circumstances of that process). Not only that, Buckingham McVie had a pretty successful tour, they got good reviews.

Second there's the abuse. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that Lindsey physically abused her. I'm a victim of domestic violence myself and I know the signs, I know the looks. It's scary. And very stressful to work with someone who has abused you in the past. An example of the fear: I hadn't talked to/seen my ex in 15 years and all of a sudden there's a message from him on Facebook. It's been 15 years, I'm in the USA, he's in Europe. I have nothing to fear, he's a million miles away. That's not how it works. I was scared to death. I had to rationalize my thoughts.
I've seen footage of a concert in 1979 where Lindsey grabs Stevie during Angel and she was scared. You could see it in her eyes. She was scared to death. I wish I knew of a way to post it here. However, having said that, she also said, years later, that when she saw him with his kids she made a huge mistake letting him go...

Third there is the power. He has softened through the years, has grown, is not abusive anymore but still pushes her buttons but finally she can say:"It's him or me". She has nothing left to lose by saying that. Her solo career is very successful. Even if Fleetwood Mac would have said:"Well Stevie, we rather have him", there's no loss. She'd just go on her merry solo way and be just as successful as he has ever been. Add Mike Campbell to her band and make another 24kg.

There's one thing that she forgets though: if it weren't for Lindsey she would never have been a part of Fleetwood Mac. She'd been a waitress, a cleaning lady until she inherited all this money from her parents and would live in a big house by herself (with probably her brother and Lori) and her doggies. But because she became a part of Fleetwood Mac and not only that, she became the face of Fleetwood Mac, she became arrogant. I've loved this woman since '77 so this is very hard for me to say but what I've seen over the years is that she changed from a rock 'n roll hippie into a rock 'n roll diva. Back in the 70's, 80's early 90's, she was sweet, compassionate, humble, patient, a very warm personality. I've met her a few times during those era's and I had nothing but praise for her. That's why I can say this.
Another thing she forgets is Lindsey's magic on her songs. There's nobody on this earth who can and will understand her songs as well as he does. Even Christine said about Dreams:"It's just 3 bloody chords" to which Lindsey replied:"Yeah, but they're the right chords". He worked his magic and boom, they had a number one hit.

All 'n all, I just think she was fed up with him. "How dare he ask for a delay when he just toured with Christine and wrote all those beautiful songs with her". What's not important in her mind is that she delayed and delayed and delayed. And Mick went with the money as he usually does.

As far as the true fans are concerned... I guess we're just an after thought.
this is so perfectly said, Debbie. thank you!
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  #82  
Old 04-12-2018, 08:56 PM
Storms123 Storms123 is offline
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I think this is an interesting perspective that will play itself out over the next few weeks/months. How are they going to roll this tour out? Full blown? I don't think they can. They need to test markets. This is an expensive mounting, and if it's going to "not be as robust" as OWTS, they need to be able to pivot/pull back/bail. They are all over 65 (may be not the new Neil) You never know when one of them will need a stent put in or hip replacement last minute. I don't mean to be flip, but I don't think the marketing around this one is going to be as cut and dry as previous tours.
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  #83  
Old 04-12-2018, 09:06 PM
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LOL....

It was written by Timothy Finn. I assume/hope not Neil’s brother, Tim Finn. Otherwise, talk about sibling rivalry.
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  #84  
Old 04-13-2018, 07:43 AM
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i talked to my 14 yo daughter this morning, while driving her to school. i told her Fleetwood Mac fired Lindsey. she was like, what? how does that even happen?

she pondered it a bit, and then came up with this: "i guess they just must have gone senile."

i had to laugh. from the mouths of babes! kids are alright, they cut through the crap and come up with the most plausible explanation.
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  #85  
Old 04-13-2018, 08:04 AM
John Run John Run is offline
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https://www.instagram.com/p/Bhfs0bhA...en-by=kbchrush

As visitor to the Penguin back to the days of Marty and Lisa in the Mid 1990's, I have experienced many highs and lows with this band, but this is by far the deepest sadness I have ever felt regarding any Fleetwood Mac happening.

It is now clear as evidenced by Lindsey's family's social media musings that this was not Lindsey wanting out. For all his personal failings in the 70s and 80s, he has essentially lived his life over the last 20 plus years as a person devoted to his family and the musical output of this band. He has led it musically, as its most consistent spokesperson and stage presence since 1997, and the band probably would not have had this 20 year second act if it was not for his vision and persistence.

I suspect the Washington Post article was a "friend of FM mgmt" piece to fire a shot across Lindsey's bow that in this "me too" era we will drag up every piece of the past we can, factual or not, relevant or reformed, to embarrass you and your family if you do not play nice.

It is sad that this how it will end for FM & Lindsey. Don't fool yourself, the tour will do just fine. The guys they brought in are talented, the draw is the name of the band and Stevie. Doesn't mean it is right or that I will attend. If I did, I would pay for a front row seat and stand with my back to the stage for the duration.

In all reality this tour will be the end of the band, so its final snap shot in what is for sure the last decade of some of the members' lives, will be this separation that will permanently darken the legacy and innovation of what was the collective musical greatness of these five people.

Last edited by John Run : 04-13-2018 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 04-13-2018, 08:48 AM
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If that WP article is the band's way of hitting at Lindsey then it is about time he writes the book it was said he would write about the making of Rumours. I suspect what he will say about Ken, Mick, and especially the icon will not be very flattering.
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Old 04-13-2018, 08:51 AM
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It is sad that this how it will end for FM & Lindsey. Don't fool yourself, the tour will do just fine. The guys they brought in are talented, the draw is the name of the band and Stevie. Doesn't mean it is right or that I will attend. If I did, I would pay for a front row seat and stand with my back to the stage for the duration.
I'm sure the money-grubbers on stage wouldn't care less and would have the last laugh as you would be just one more helping them line their pockets with premium $$$ from a front row seat.
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:01 AM
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Sorry I missed what was printed in the Washington Post article. Can anyone paraphrase? Never mind! I Googled the article. They're bringing up old news and painting him in a negative light. Lindsey has grown since then.

Last edited by lisarod : 04-13-2018 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by The Catdancer View Post
So here's my take on this whole mess. And you might not be interested because I haven't been here in years but here goes. I think it's a combination of things. This didn't just come out of the blue and like someone said:"They didn't wake up one day and said:"Oh, let's make Lindsey's life hell".

First there's the matter of jealousy. I think Miss Nicks couldn't stand it that they made a record without her despite the fact that she said in the press that she wished them all the best. If she did, than why wasn't it called a Fleetwood Mac album? Because that's what it was, it had 4 members on it. But for whatever reason, it wasn't called Fleetwood Mac. So they called it Buckingham McVie. That's a slap in her face, it refers back to Buckingham Nicks.
Lindsey & Christine worked together which was pretty successful. Go back to the old days when Lindsey & Stevie first joined the band and Lindsey wrote World Turning with Christine. She was extremely jealous. I remember reading back then that she said:"He can write a song with her but not with me". That got her pissed off (although they did write Frozen Love together but I don't know the circumstances of that process). Not only that, Buckingham McVie had a pretty successful tour, they got good reviews.

Second there's the abuse. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that Lindsey physically abused her. I'm a victim of domestic violence myself and I know the signs, I know the looks. It's scary. And very stressful to work with someone who has abused you in the past. An example of the fear: I hadn't talked to/seen my ex in 15 years and all of a sudden there's a message from him on Facebook. It's been 15 years, I'm in the USA, he's in Europe. I have nothing to fear, he's a million miles away. That's not how it works. I was scared to death. I had to rationalize my thoughts.
I've seen footage of a concert in 1979 where Lindsey grabs Stevie during Angel and she was scared. You could see it in her eyes. She was scared to death. I wish I knew of a way to post it here. However, having said that, she also said, years later, that when she saw him with his kids she made a huge mistake letting him go...

Third there is the power. He has softened through the years, has grown, is not abusive anymore but still pushes her buttons but finally she can say:"It's him or me". She has nothing left to lose by saying that. Her solo career is very successful. Even if Fleetwood Mac would have said:"Well Stevie, we rather have him", there's no loss. She'd just go on her merry solo way and be just as successful as he has ever been. Add Mike Campbell to her band and make another 24kg.

There's one thing that she forgets though: if it weren't for Lindsey she would never have been a part of Fleetwood Mac. She'd been a waitress, a cleaning lady until she inherited all this money from her parents and would live in a big house by herself (with probably her brother and Lori) and her doggies. But because she became a part of Fleetwood Mac and not only that, she became the face of Fleetwood Mac, she became arrogant. I've loved this woman since '77 so this is very hard for me to say but what I've seen over the years is that she changed from a rock 'n roll hippie into a rock 'n roll diva. Back in the 70's, 80's early 90's, she was sweet, compassionate, humble, patient, a very warm personality. I've met her a few times during those era's and I had nothing but praise for her. That's why I can say this.
Another thing she forgets is Lindsey's magic on her songs. There's nobody on this earth who can and will understand her songs as well as he does. Even Christine said about Dreams:"It's just 3 bloody chords" to which Lindsey replied:"Yeah, but they're the right chords". He worked his magic and boom, they had a number one hit.

All 'n all, I just think she was fed up with him. "How dare he ask for a delay when he just toured with Christine and wrote all those beautiful songs with her". What's not important in her mind is that she delayed and delayed and delayed. And Mick went with the money as he usually does.

As far as the true fans are concerned... I guess we're just an after thought.
I don’t believe Stevie would be jealous of the Buckvie album at all. It was totally her choice not to record with them and they held off as long as they could giving her plenty of time hoping she would change her mind. She wanted to instead do her solo tour and by all accounts was happier doing so since it was the most fun tour and one of her most successful ever. Lastly, the reason the Buckvie album could not officially be called Fleetwood Mac was because Stevie is still legally a member of the band so her not being on the album means it is not a Fleetwood Mac album. That is different from Say You Will when Christine was not signed on anymore as a contracted member of the band so that LP could be called FM.

Last edited by StevieNicksfann : 04-13-2018 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:20 PM
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  #90  
Old 04-13-2018, 12:32 PM
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I don’t believe Stevie would be jealous of the Buckvie album at all. It was totally her choice not to record with them and they held off as long as they could giving her plenty of time hoping she would change her mind. She wanted to instead do her solo tour and by all accounts was happier doing so since it was the most fun tour and one of her most successful ever. Lastly, the reason the Buckvie album could not officially be called Fleetwood Mac was because Stevie is still legally a member of the band so her not being on the album means it is not a Fleetwood Mac album. That is different from Say You Will when Christine was not signed on anymore as a contracted member of the band so that LP could be called FM.

I'm not aware of any law that says an album cant be labelled as being by a particular band if one particular member doesn't want to appear on it.

No, the reason it wasn't labelled as Fleetwood Mac is because they'd need to perform live shows to promote the album and that would have caused problems without having Stevie. They'd already signed up for a tour with all 5 band members and the promoters for the forthcoming tour wouldn't have taken kindly to a Fleetwood Mac tour without SN. Furthermore they'd have faced problems from ticket buyers expecting to see SN only to find her absent.
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1997 Pretty Blond Singer Bekka Bramlett With Billy Burnette Press Photo picture35 mm PHOTO SLIDE TRANSPARENCY #887 BEKKA BRAMLETT singer song writer
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35 mm PHOTO SLIDE TRANSPARENCY #887   BEKKA BRAMLETT  singer  song writer picture



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