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  #16  
Old 05-15-2018, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murrow View Post
I've expressed some of this in other threads but this seems more appropriate for the purpose.

Yes I do blame her for a lot.

2005 or so: I'm not doing another Mac album as the only female.

2014: Can we delay Mac activity even though Chris is back cos I've booked studio time.

One tour later

2016: I don't want to do a Mac album period.

My considered opinion is that Mick should have said "We're not waiting" to her in 2016 (better still 2014) the same way he claims he's done with Lindsey.

More than anything I blame Mick. He's just got too much of a soft spot for Stevie to put his foot down with her about anything these days. Did he seriously think having BOTH those two back in the band was going to work for any great length of time. All it produced was 20 years of jack s*** apart from Say You Will and that poxy excuse for an EP.
Mick's soft spot is that he knows which side his bread is buttered on, realizing that an FM with Stevie means much more money in his wallet than one without. This is why so many are disgusted - this once great band has been reduced to nothing more than a cash cow for him. Witness his charging fans $600 a pop plus fees for a brief meeting (ticket price not included!) as part of what I call his "Meet & Fleece" program.

There are also those who are very disappointed with Christine as I am but I'm certain that in an earlier era Christine would have been much more outspoken. The thing is she's now pushing 75 and age sadly does take its toll.
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FYI: The Fleetwood Mac Rumours lineup = Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Christine McVie, Lindsey Buckingham, and Stevie Nicks.

The lineup featuring Mike Campbell and Neil Finn is a Post-Rumours lineup of the band.
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  #17  
Old 05-15-2018, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by gldstwmn View Post
When they started to turn on Christine I realized that we'd started to cross the Rubicon.
People have created an entire alternate reality in their own heads. Apparently, Mick and Stevie orchestrated this and it was a plot. A plot against Lindsey! And Christine is either a skank, or she's gotten too old and senile to object.

I love Lindsey and when I saw the first article about him being fired, I thought it was a joke. It was a huge shock and I understand why people are upset. I was upset, too. But I don't know these people. I don't know what their motives were.

I've said for a long time that you can read between the lines of Stevie's comments about not wanting to record with Fleetwood Mac, and what she's really saying is that she doesn't want to record with Lindsey. Him, specifically. There is evidently something about their dynamic in a recording studio that she just can't deal with and doesn't want to deal with.

Is that disappointing? Of course it is. But I don't know the woman, and (as far as I know) neither does anyone else here. I do know what it's like to have co-workers that you just can't have a functional professional relationship with, and what it's like to reach a point where you say "I just can't do it anymore." So I can't sit in judgment of her for that, as much as I'm disappointed that we won't get to hear new music from that lineup.

Stevie is probably a diva, and Lindsey is probably controlling, and that combined with their 45-year history together probably creates a lot of drama that is greatly intensified in a recording studio.

The facts are that nobody in the band has really said all that much about this situation, which leaves fans to spin their own elaborate stories, appropriately making heroes or villains of their favorite and non-favorite band members. Which is understandable, but I hope that people understand that their own bigotry shows, and their ranting says a lot more about them that it does about the members of FM. And it's often not pretty.

Last edited by markolas : 05-15-2018 at 04:15 PM.
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  #18  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murrow View Post
I've expressed some of this in other threads but this seems more appropriate for the purpose.

Yes I do blame her for a lot.

2005 or so: I'm not doing another Mac album as the only female.

2014: Can we delay Mac activity even though Chris is back cos I've booked studio time.

One tour later

2016: I don't want to do a Mac album period.

My considered opinion is that Mick should have said "We're not waiting" to her in 2016 (better still 2014) the same way he claims he's done with Lindsey.

More than anything I blame Mick. He's just got too much of a soft spot for Stevie to put his foot down with her about anything these days. Did he seriously think having BOTH those two back in the band was going to work for any great length of time. All it produced was 20 years of jack s*** apart from Say You Will and that poxy excuse for an EP.
To be genuinely fair here...she did drop 24k in 2014 but she still went out on the road with Mac. She didn't hold the band hostage so she could do a tour. She waited until time with the Mac was done. She probably wanted to go out on the road immediately for that album and did not. Because she knows she probably would have been thrown out of the band to some extent.

To add to that: She was done with Mac in 2013 and she was probably anticipating to finish her album and do a tour - then Christine came back in the fold and added another extended tour. She should have theoretically done her album 2014 - toured 2014 or 2015 and then back to mac in 2016 but that didn't happen that way. So I think it would have been unreasonable for Mick to say in 2016 and 2017 too bad let's go we have another tour. They know she flips to her solo work after mac work.

Last edited by krrrby : 05-15-2018 at 05:21 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by markolas View Post
People have created an entire alternate reality in their own heads. Apparently, Mick and Stevie orchestrated this and it was a plot. A plot against Lindsey! And Christine is either a skank, or she's gotten too old and senile to object.

I love Lindsey and when I saw the first article about him being fired, I thought it was a joke. It was a huge shock and I understand why people are upset. I was upset, too. But I don't know these people. I don't know what their motives were.

I've said for a long time that you can read between the lines of Stevie's comments about not wanting to record with Fleetwood Mac, and what she's really saying is that she doesn't want to record with Lindsey. Him, specifically. There is evidently something about their dynamic in a recording studio that she just can't deal with and doesn't want to deal with.

Is that disappointing? Of course it is. But I don't know the woman, and (as far as I know) neither does anyone else here. I do know what it's like to have co-workers that you just can't have a functional professional relationship with, and what it's like to reach a point where you say "I just can't do it anymore." So I can't sit in judgment of her for that, as much as I'm disappointed that we won't get to hear new music from that lineup.

Stevie is probably a diva, and Lindsey is probably controlling, and that combined with their 45-year history together probably creates a lot of drama that is greatly intensified in a recording studio.

The facts are that nobody in the band has really said all that much about this situation, which leaves fans to spin their own elaborate stories, appropriately making heroes or villains of their favorite and non-favorite band members. Which is understandable, but I hope that people understand that their own bigotry shows, and their ranting says a lot more about them that it does about the members of FM. And it's often not pretty.
Markolas, it sounds like you have a pretty good handle on your perspective of what went down. I pretty much see it your way, too. It's been obvious to many people that Stevie won't record with Lindsey anymore. It's frustrating, but after 40 plus years, they've each earned the right to pick who they can or will work with. FM made a choice and they went with Stevie. It could just as easily have been Lindsey they went with.

I do think Mick sided with Stevie for economic reasons, but that's his right, too. "If we keep Lindsey, we'll get another FM album perhaps, but they won't take John or me on tour with them and the tour won't make as much money anyway because a FM without Stevie won't play big venues or command higher prices. If we keep Stevie, we'll get another FM album perhaps, and we'll get to tour and make more money because a FM with Stevie will play big venues and command higher prices." That's business, but some fans think Mick and John should be content to play on an album (that won't sell well, anyway) and not make money by touring in order to keep their legacy intact. Touring is how this band makes their income. If FM had kicked Stevie out, there would be no arena tour. Actually, there's be no tour at all for John and Mick. Look at what happened when they released Buck/Vie- Lindsey and Christine toured without Mick and John. So yes, it's unfortunate they kicked Lindsey out, but I can see from a financial pov why they did. They've got bills, too.
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  #20  
Old 05-15-2018, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markolas View Post
I've said for a long time that you can read between the lines of Stevie's comments about not wanting to record with Fleetwood Mac, and what she's really saying is that she doesn't want to record with Lindsey. Him, specifically. There is evidently something about their dynamic in a recording studio that she just can't deal with and doesn't want to deal with.

.
I think it's basically that he produces. If he was just a guitar player/singer/writer I doubt she would be as bothered. But because he produces, he gets a big part in how her songs end up and so they clash. He's also very perfectionist in the studio which I assume she (and probably others) gets irritated or impatient with. The past couple of years he was really trying to lure her back in the studio with him but it didn't work. I think she had a big grudge over SYW which she didn't like making nor did she like the final product so she thought a new FM album would be like SYW part 2. Even I thought this as well which is why I was pleasantly surprised by the BuckVie album. It was overall very sunny and fun and light and I think had she known it would end up sounding that way, she might've agreed to do it.
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  #21  
Old 05-16-2018, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markolas View Post
People have created an entire alternate reality in their own heads. Apparently, Mick and Stevie orchestrated this and it was a plot. A plot against Lindsey! And Christine is either a skank, or she's gotten too old and senile to object.

I love Lindsey and when I saw the first article about him being fired, I thought it was a joke. It was a huge shock and I understand why people are upset. I was upset, too. But I don't know these people. I don't know what their motives were.

I've said for a long time that you can read between the lines of Stevie's comments about not wanting to record with Fleetwood Mac, and what she's really saying is that she doesn't want to record with Lindsey. Him, specifically. There is evidently something about their dynamic in a recording studio that she just can't deal with and doesn't want to deal with.

Is that disappointing? Of course it is. But I don't know the woman, and (as far as I know) neither does anyone else here. I do know what it's like to have co-workers that you just can't have a functional professional relationship with, and what it's like to reach a point where you say "I just can't do it anymore." So I can't sit in judgment of her for that, as much as I'm disappointed that we won't get to hear new music from that lineup.

Stevie is probably a diva, and Lindsey is probably controlling, and that combined with their 45-year history together probably creates a lot of drama that is greatly intensified in a recording studio.

The facts are that nobody in the band has really said all that much about this situation, which leaves fans to spin their own elaborate stories, appropriately making heroes or villains of their favorite and non-favorite band members. Which is understandable, but I hope that people understand that their own bigotry shows, and their ranting says a lot more about them that it does about the members of FM. And it's often not pretty.
Really appreciate your post. It eloquently sums up how I feel about the changes in the band, and the ranting on this board.
Agree with everything you wrote.
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  #22  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:37 AM
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If it wasn't Lindsey's choice, Christine was not involved, and John was... John, then who is left to actively want Lindsey out?

It pains me to say it because I love Stevie, but the conclusion is inevitable.

This has not made me hate Stevie, though. I for one think her mind was clouded with grief, and Mick went along with it because he knows she is the one who brings in the most fans.
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  #23  
Old 05-19-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by gldstwmn View Post
When they started to turn on Christine I realized that we'd started to cross the Rubicon.
Reading the threads in the Rumours forum, yeah it seems like there's been an element of misogyny in the over-the-top rage being expressed by some posters. It makes it difficult to take anything they say seriously.

I found it annoying that Nicks was avoiding recording a new Mac album, and I can see why Buckingham fans would feel its really unfair that Nicks didn't get bounced out of the band for refusing to record but Buckingham does for refusing to tour. I think it IS unfair, but I also think its the reality of the business side of Fleetwood Mac: Initially Nicks didn't have much influence in the band even though she was the obvious star of the band. That has changed over the years, I think - Nicks wasn't fired for refusing to record because she couldn't be, whereas Buckingham was fired for not touring because he doesn't hold the power in the band now - Nicks (and Fleetwood) do.

Ultimately though I think the working relationship between Buckingham and Nicks just finally completely broke down, so this result was eventually inevitable. And I think what many irate posters on this board are forgetting is that Fleetwood Mac has always morphed into different bands....saying that Mac should have "just broken up" instead of moving on post-Buckingham is ignoring that fact.
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