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  #76  
Old 05-14-2018, 06:50 PM
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TheWildHeart67 TheWildHeart67 is offline
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Thank you Bwboy, that is very kind of you.
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  #77  
Old 05-14-2018, 07:24 PM
Storms123 Storms123 is offline
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Originally Posted by TheWildHeart67 View Post
I am a big fan of Stevie's solo career, and a big fan of Fleetwood Mac.
But this will be the first tour I am not excited about, and I am not buying tickets. I tried accepting Rick and Billy back when FM tried to replace Lindsey the first time he left, and it just wasn't magical for me(I don't consider FM's "Time" album as "Cannon," and ignored that period).
Combining Mac tours and Stevie solo tours, I have been to 36 of their shows.
I've been following their music since I was 15 years old.
Lindsey's firing shocked the hell out of me.
I am not going to point fingers, because I don't know what truly happened.
We all can speculate, and assume.
But whatever the truth is, in my opinion, if Lindsey Buckingham is no longer part of Fleetwood Mac, the band should break-up.
This is likely their last massive tour.
Fleetwood Mac is a beloved, iconic band.
"Rumours" is now part of pop culture and arguably one of the great albums that defines the 1970's. 31 weeks at #1.
And that line-up of the mighty Mac went on to release 3 more great albums that spun off songs that are now classics, and still get massive airplay.
"Tusk"(an album I've always loved) was considered a flop in it's day, simply because it didn't sell the massive numbers "Rumours" sold.
But now, critics and fans consider "Tusk" a brilliant album.
And Lindsey orchestrated that vision.
He is a vital part of what makes Fleetwood Mac magical.
And without all 5 members together of the "classic" line-up, it isn't Fleetwood Mac, to me.
I LOVE TP and the Heartbreakers. And Mike Campbell is fantastic.
But I don't want to see him join FM or hear them do versions of classic TP&THB songs.
This is most likely FM's final big tour.
I don't hold on to any hope that Lindsey will return after this tour.
By then Christine and John will be 80 years old, or close to it.
It's truly sad that the final tour will not consist of the magical 5 fireflies.
I truly think there is no point to doing the tour without Lindsey.
If Nicks and Buckingham cannot get along and cannot put the hatred aside for this final tour, the band should break-up.
Period.
FM cannot reinvent themselves in the sunset of their career as a band.
Am I upset? Yes! I'm mortified. Do I hate any particular member of the band though? No. I think both Lindsey and Stevie equally antagonize each other, and have famously done so for decades.
But there must have been a really nasty final fight between them that caused this to happen.
And if it's gotten to the point of not being able to get through one last tour, so be it...but I'm not gonna hate on Lindsey or Stevie. Nor am I going to hold a grudge against Christine, Mick or John for going along with the decision to do this tour without Lindsey, or post nasty messages back and forth to people on this message board.
I'm simply not going to support this tour.
But I can continue to enjoy the music they made together as a group and as solo artists.
Their music is the soundtrack of my life, and I will continue to cherish that until the day I die.
Articulated so well and speaks to all "factions" of the fandom I think. To your point, we will never know what truly went down, and we (fans and the band) are all the worse off for it.
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  #78  
Old 05-14-2018, 09:29 PM
BellaSoprano71 BellaSoprano71 is offline
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Thank you sweetie....
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:32 PM
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  #79  
Old 05-14-2018, 09:36 PM
BellaSoprano71 BellaSoprano71 is offline
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Default The family is breaking up :( and afraid to post....

Goodluck to you and all your going through.. ... I wish you nothing but the best...




Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Wow, so sorry for your loss.

I completely agree that a lot of people have lost perspective. The age of social media seems to have caused people to feed into their anger and disappointment, and be happy living in a constant state of negtive energy and trumped up outrage. It becomes a bubble for them.

I start chemo on Monday for something not cancer. It’s still chemo. So, Lindsey getting sacked isn’t that big a deal to me. He just sold a house for $19 million. He’s going to be fine. The band got two guys who aren’t embarrassments. They’ll be fine.

There are bigger things in life a lot of us are dealing with. It used to be that coming on here was a way to escape from life’s troubles and talk about something fairly meaningless. Now, it’s almost as depressing as dealing with the real issues.
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  #80  
Old 05-14-2018, 09:49 PM
BellaSoprano71 BellaSoprano71 is offline
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Default The family is breaking up :( and afraid to post....

First thing is I know EVERYONE is going through stuff...as I said I don't put mine before anyone else's, and I freakin love The Ledge. If you read what I said I was so happy to find this place many a years ago.

I think everyone should come on here and banter, talk, what have you but as was shown here when you don't read what was written and you just start accusing or getting upset because someone else has an opinion (which is the same thing your fighting for?). I was simply stating and my thread could of been bypassed by anyone....I don't want to get on here and fight or argue it's not that I don't love and have not been obsessed with this band any less than you..it's I don't need any more negativity. I like to come on here and read what everyone thinks and their opinions on stuff but when some of these threads are just down right mean, why?

Why are we mean to each other? THAT WAS THE WHOLE MEANING BEHIND MY POST, and of course the first thing is people jump on the "well I'm entitled to come here and bitch" and okay but when people are jumping on people or saying the worse things you can say about a band you love...it's just crazy. I again would love to talk and stuff with people about all this....but this is the example of why I won't. Sorry to upset but if your aloud an opinion then so am I and this was mine. I just think it's an amazing group just wish it could go back to how it used to be.

Last edited by BellaSoprano71 : 05-14-2018 at 09:55 PM.
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  #81  
Old 05-19-2018, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Exactly. Right before the final blowout, they were supposed to have a band get together, but Lindsey either never showed up or drove there, but never went and drove off. I think Mick was ready to move on then, but gave it one last shot, which didn’t go so well. Even Lindsey says he left in 1987.
No, no, no. I'm gonna stand by my opinion that he was canned. He was canned specifically because the band was adamant about touring behind Tango.
  1. The album was a big hit.
  2. The band put the gears in motion to go on the road.
  3. Lindsey's experience in the studio was very unpleasant, and he figured that all that toxicity would be carried into the live environment.
  4. The others persuaded him to tour. He agreed under personal duress, feeling extremely ambivalent.
  5. After agreeing, the band booked everything.
  6. Lindsey told the others that, despite his earlier agreement, he couldn't stomach it.
  7. The others put his feet to the fire, telling him that they planned to tour with or without him.
  8. Emotionally anguished, he backed away.
  9. They immediately hired replacements.

He was canned. Had they all agreed NOT to tour at that time, he wouldn't have quit. He would have had no reason to quit. It was the idea of the tour that sickened him. He and the band probably would have taken another long break from one another, while he hoped that the drug addicts in the band got treatment.
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  #82  
Old 05-19-2018, 01:07 PM
bwboy bwboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
No, no, no. I'm gonna stand by my opinion that he was canned. He was canned specifically because the band was adamant about touring behind Tango.
  1. The album was a big hit.
  2. The band put the gears in motion to go on the road.
  3. Lindsey's experience in the studio was very unpleasant, and he figured that all that toxicity would be carried into the live environment.
  4. The others persuaded him to tour. He agreed under personal duress, feeling extremely ambivalent.
  5. After agreeing, the band booked everything.
  6. Lindsey told the others that, despite his earlier agreement, he couldn't stomach it.
  7. The others put his feet to the fire, telling him that they planned to tour with or without him.
  8. Emotionally anguished, he backed away.
  9. They immediately hired replacements.

He was canned. Had they all agreed NOT to tour at that time, he wouldn't have quit. He would have had no reason to quit. It was the idea of the tour that sickened him. He and the band probably would have taken another long break from one another, while he hoped that the drug addicts in the band got treatment.
David, at first I thought you were crazy...but after reading your post, I definitely see your logic and I have to agree: if FM had scrapped the tour, Lindsey likely would never have left, so yeah, in that respect, he was fired. I guess the big difference between now and then is, this time he didn't want to be fired, whereas last time he didn't give a blank.

If FM hadn't toured, all might have calmed down and cooler heads may have prevailed... eventually, and maybe they would have released another album sooner than 1996. It's interesting to imagine "what if" in these scenarios. However, I was thrilled FM continued with their tour back in 1987, and I loved Rick and Billy and Behind the Mask and the other songs recorded during that particular era, so I'm glad it worked out the way it did, right down to the Dance.
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  #83  
Old 05-19-2018, 01:35 PM
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Macfan4life Macfan4life is offline
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Originally Posted by bwboy View Post
David, at first I thought you were crazy...but after reading your post, I definitely see your logic and I have to agree: if FM had scrapped the tour, Lindsey likely would never have left, so yeah, in that respect, he was fired. I guess the big difference between now and then is, this time he didn't want to be fired, whereas last time he didn't give a blank.

If FM hadn't toured, all might have calmed down and cooler heads may have prevailed... eventually, and maybe they would have released another album sooner than 1996. It's interesting to imagine "what if" in these scenarios. However, I was thrilled FM continued with their tour back in 1987, and I loved Rick and Billy and Behind the Mask and the other songs recorded during that particular era, so I'm glad it worked out the way it did, right down to the Dance.
One major issue about the 1987 tour was Mick wanted to get out of bankruptcy. He not only wanted to tour but needed to tour. Lindsey felt he did his part with creating a successful album. We would never know but I disagree that cooler heads would have prevailed and after 1987 the Rumours 5 would have gotten back in the studio in a few years. Lindsey had a horrible experience during Tango. Stevie's klonopin addiction was just about to go full steam and Mick was still using and abusing. I don't see Lindsey entertaining the idea again. But who knows. The rest of the band did not have a successful solo career like Stevie so they definitely wanted to tour to make some money.
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  #84  
Old 05-19-2018, 03:02 PM
tabruns tabruns is offline
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Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
One major issue about the 1987 tour was Mick wanted to get out of bankruptcy. He not only wanted to tour but needed to tour. Lindsey felt he did his part with creating a successful album. We would never know but I disagree that cooler heads would have prevailed and after 1987 the Rumours 5 would have gotten back in the studio in a few years. Lindsey had a horrible experience during Tango. Stevie's klonopin addiction was just about to go full steam and Mick was still using and abusing. I don't see Lindsey entertaining the idea again. But who knows. The rest of the band did not have a successful solo career like Stevie so they definitely wanted to tour to make some money.
Interesting that the same dynamic was around during 'Tango' - Lindsey liked recording, didn't want to tour; Stevie didn't want to record, did want to tour. And the recording sessions were brutal for Lindsey, largely because Nicks and Fleetwood were still in their out of control phases.
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  #85  
Old 05-19-2018, 03:08 PM
dreamsunwind dreamsunwind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
No, no, no. I'm gonna stand by my opinion that he was canned. He was canned specifically because the band was adamant about touring behind Tango.
  1. The album was a big hit.
  2. The band put the gears in motion to go on the road.
  3. Lindsey's experience in the studio was very unpleasant, and he figured that all that toxicity would be carried into the live environment.
  4. The others persuaded him to tour. He agreed under personal duress, feeling extremely ambivalent.
  5. After agreeing, the band booked everything.
  6. Lindsey told the others that, despite his earlier agreement, he couldn't stomach it.
  7. The others put his feet to the fire, telling him that they planned to tour with or without him.
  8. Emotionally anguished, he backed away.
  9. They immediately hired replacements.

He was canned. Had they all agreed NOT to tour at that time, he wouldn't have quit. He would have had no reason to quit. It was the idea of the tour that sickened him. He and the band probably would have taken another long break from one another, while he hoped that the drug addicts in the band got treatment.
He was "canned" in 1987 in the same sense that if the band had told him "Lindsey if you push this button you're out" and so he pushed that button. As far as we know he wasn't asking or expecting them to cancel the tour and just about everyone (from Mick to Lindsey himself to people like Richard Dashut) have all described the situation as Lindsey leaving. In interviews from even before that happened, he kept hinting that he didn't want to be with the group anymore. No matter what logistics you use to describe it, he wanted to get the heck out of there.
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  #86  
Old 05-19-2018, 04:18 PM
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elle elle is offline
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Originally Posted by tabruns View Post
Interesting that the same dynamic was around during 'Tango' - Lindsey liked recording, didn't want to tour; Stevie didn't want to record, did want to tour. And the recording sessions were brutal for Lindsey, largely because Nicks and Fleetwood were still in their out of control phases.
except NOW Lindsey wanted to tour too. double-tour in fact.
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  #87  
Old 05-19-2018, 04:28 PM
Dr.Brown Dr.Brown is offline
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Spin it however you want but the bottom line is that no one throughout the intervening decades has contradicted statements that Lindsey himself decided to leave/quit the band in 1987, rather than tour.

This time around, Lindsey has clearly stated that the decision was not his and no one has contradicted this statement either, despite Mick's aversion to an 'ugly' word.
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FYI: The Rumours lineup = Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Christine McVie, Lindsey Buckingham & Stevie Nicks.

The lineup featuring Mike Campbell & Neil Finn is a Post-Rumours lineup of the band.


After 14 yrs visiting a site I once enjoyed which covered a band I once loved following, I now ‘Say Goodbye’ to both
No thanks to the faction within FM which destroyed its legacy & heavy-handed mod michelej1


This site operates at the whim of the admin&mods–a whim I'll no longer be associated with
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  #88  
Old 05-19-2018, 07:56 PM
bwboy bwboy is offline
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Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
One major issue about the 1987 tour was Mick wanted to get out of bankruptcy. He not only wanted to tour but needed to tour. Lindsey felt he did his part with creating a successful album. We would never know but I disagree that cooler heads would have prevailed and after 1987 the Rumours 5 would have gotten back in the studio in a few years. Lindsey had a horrible experience during Tango. Stevie's klonopin addiction was just about to go full steam and Mick was still using and abusing. I don't see Lindsey entertaining the idea again. But who knows. The rest of the band did not have a successful solo career like Stevie so they definitely wanted to tour to make some money.
Good points. I would just add that the reason I said cooler heads might have eventually prevailed was because by the time FM toured in 1987, Stevie was no longer doing cocaine, so some of the issues Lindsey may have had with her during the recording of Tango may not have been a factor at that point. Of course we'll never know, but I suspect if Lindsey had toured with them, things might have been better because of that, but obviously he would have had no way of knowing that at the time. Lindsey leaving at that time, whether he was fired or he quit, was probably the right thing for him to do for himself. Perhaps the band now thinks Lindsey leaving is the right thing for them.
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  #89  
Old 05-20-2018, 03:15 AM
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The Catdancer The Catdancer is offline
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Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
Stevie's klonopin addiction was just about to go full steam
I think she was still doing coke when they were recording Tango. I met her in June of '88 and she was fine. One of the security guards told me she was in group therapy and it worked. I talked to her for about 20 minutes at a party and she was totally fine, funny, talkative etc. In May of '89 (TOSOTM promo tour) I met her again. She stopped for a pic but said she was in a rush because she had to do another interview. Again, she was totally fine. She had gained weight (even more so than in '88) but she was nice and sweet, smiling & waving at everyone. In November of that same year she came back for her first and only solo concert and when I saw her she was a total mess. She didn't know where she was. She kept asking if she was in Germany and said at one point:"It's great to be in Scandinavia." She was in Holland... And it wasn't just that, her speech was slurring and it looked like she had no idea what was happening around her and didn't care. Needless to say they (the record company people) didn't want me to talk to her and showed me where the exit was. But I've always wondered what happened to her in that 6 month period. It was very sad to see her like that. Wasn't she in Betty Ford when they recorded Tango? Does anyone have a timeline on that? I can't remember.
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  #90  
Old 05-20-2018, 03:34 AM
dreamsunwind dreamsunwind is offline
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I think she was still doing coke when they were recording Tango. I met her in June of '88 and she was fine. One of the security guards told me she was in group therapy and it worked. I talked to her for about 20 minutes at a party and she was totally fine, funny, talkative etc. In May of '89 (TOSOTM promo tour) I met her again. She stopped for a pic but said she was in a rush because she had to do another interview. Again, she was totally fine. She had gained weight (even more so than in '88) but she was nice and sweet, smiling & waving at everyone. In November of that same year she came back for her first and only solo concert and when I saw her she was a total mess. She didn't know where she was. She kept asking if she was in Germany and said at one point:"It's great to be in Scandinavia." She was in Holland... And it wasn't just that, her speech was slurring and it looked like she had no idea what was happening around her and didn't care. Needless to say they (the record company people) didn't want me to talk to her and showed me where the exit was. But I've always wondered what happened to her in that 6 month period. It was very sad to see her like that. Wasn't she in Betty Ford when they recorded Tango? Does anyone have a timeline on that? I can't remember.
That's amazing you got to meet her and talk to her more than once! She's become a lot more secluded since then so you never really get to hear stories like that. Did you meet any of the other band members?
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