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  #1  
Old 05-11-2018, 09:17 PM
secret love secret love is offline
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Default Stevie as scapegoat

Hi everybody! (I'm Dr Nick...)
So this is a very contentious issue I'm going to open up here.
Stevie Nicks as scapegoat!
It appears that almost everything that is wrong with Fleetwood Mac is in some way, Stephanie Lynn Nicks' fault. Do you agree? Or partially agree, or disagree?
I'm not putting this out here to defend or to criticise Stevie. I'm raising the issue to get a range of perspectives, both positive for Stevie and negative against Stevie.
And if you want my opinion? Well I think she is largely the one stopping Fleetwood Mac recording new music since 2009. But I don't blame her for Lindsey for leaving/being terminated. I think that's the easy way out to lump all of the blame for that tragic circumstance on to her. And I don't think she has as much power in the band as people seem to believe.
In the meantime, enjoy some of Stevie's best piano playing:
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  #2  
Old 05-11-2018, 11:30 PM
StevieandChris StevieandChris is offline
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I think the decision was made based on a mixture of business and personal reasons. I believe all 5 contributed to the breakdown. This happened over time. I think it is was clear after Say You Will that Stevie never wanted to record with Lindsey again. I think Lindseyís attitude/behavior also plays a part. I am not convinced by that video shot by fans means he never said he wanted to delay the tour until 2019. He easily could have said that to FM in the weeks preceding that video. His request combined with his comments over the Classic shows and his manager PLUS the ongoing tension with Stevie may have been what cemented his fate. Was it the right decision? I donít think so. She is obviously narcissistic and has an overflated ego (as does Mick, and as does Lindsey). Itís disappointing. I think the four will regret the decision. But the decision was made. I think the idea anyone is above being fired is ridiculous, no matter how popular or important someone is. If they had given Stevie her walking papers for not recording what became BuckVie, that would have been their right.

I am trying not to argue about it with anyone anymore because it is exhausting and people are upset and need to have a target. Right now that target is Stevie and Mick.
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  #3  
Old 05-12-2018, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by StevieandChris View Post
I think the decision was made based on a mixture of business and personal reasons. I believe all 5 contributed to the breakdown. This happened over time. I think it is was clear after Say You Will that Stevie never wanted to record with Lindsey again. I think Lindseyís attitude/behavior also plays a part. I am not convinced by that video shot by fans means he never said he wanted to delay the tour until 2019. He easily could have said that to FM in the weeks preceding that video. His request combined with his comments over the Classic shows and his manager PLUS the ongoing tension with Stevie may have been what cemented his fate. Was it the right decision? I donít think so. She is obviously narcissistic and has an overflated ego (as does Mick, and as does Lindsey). Itís disappointing. I think the four will regret the decision. But the decision was made. I think the idea anyone is above being fired is ridiculous, no matter how popular or important someone is. If they had given Stevie her walking papers for not recording what became BuckVie, that would have been their right.

I am trying not to argue about it with anyone anymore because it is exhausting and people are upset and need to have a target. Right now that target is Stevie and Mick.
Wow, I agree with everything you said! I don't understand this Stevie fans vs Lindsey fans fiasco going on here. Actually, I'm kind of confused by it, because how can you be a fan of one and not the other? Just because some people are still fans of FM and plan to see them in concert doesn't mean we're happy Lindsey is gone. The two ideas aren't exclusive. If FM had fired Stevie, I would still buy their albums and probably see them in concert, IF all four band members were performing.

Seeing one poster gloat about poor ticket sales for some of the FM dates on another thread, for example. It doesn't bother me, it's just so childish. And she would be the first one to have a fit if someone posted how some of the Buck/Vie shows sold poorly, which is ironic. Or if someone posted how happy they were Lindsey's solo album and or solo tour might be postponed now. It's so weird, I mean why would anyone be happy about that? Even if you don't like Lindsey, for some bizarre reason, why would you be happy his album or tour was postponed? I mean, why would a non-fan care at all, let alone gloat about it?

So while I'm disappointed they fired Lindsey, I believe they had their reasons because they're giving up a guaranteed payday. Whether this new lineup will record together, I don't know and don't care, I'm just taking it a day at a time and looking forward to seeing how this version of Fleetwood Mac does.
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  #4  
Old 05-12-2018, 08:51 AM
StevieandChris StevieandChris is offline
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Wow, I agree with everything you said! I don't understand this Stevie fans vs Lindsey fans fiasco going on here. Actually, I'm kind of confused by it, because how can you be a fan of one and not the other? Just because some people are still fans of FM and plan to see them in concert doesn't mean we're happy Lindsey is gone. The two ideas aren't exclusive. If FM had fired Stevie, I would still buy their albums and probably see them in concert, IF all four band members were performing.

Seeing one poster gloat about poor ticket sales for some of the FM dates on another thread, for example. It doesn't bother me, it's just so childish. And she would be the first one to have a fit if someone posted how some of the Buck/Vie shows sold poorly, which is ironic. Or if someone posted how happy they were Lindsey's solo album and or solo tour might be postponed now. It's so weird, I mean why would anyone be happy about that? Even if you don't like Lindsey, for some bizarre reason, why would you be happy his album or tour was postponed? I mean, why would a non-fan care at all, let alone gloat about it?

So while I'm disappointed they fired Lindsey, I believe they had their reasons because they're giving up a guaranteed payday. Whether this new lineup will record together, I don't know and don't care, I'm just taking it a day at a time and looking forward to seeing how this version of Fleetwood Mac does.
Yes, agree with all of your post too! We will just have to wait and see what happens! This is just another dramatic chapter in the bandís history!
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Old 05-12-2018, 01:16 PM
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  #6  
Old 05-13-2018, 10:55 PM
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secondhandchain secondhandchain is offline
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I think what you don't realize is, MOST of us used to be fans of BOTH. I know I was, but she has squandered that. You can never believe anything that comes out of her mouth anymore. She can't keep her stories straight and has changed not for the better the last couple of years. Not trying to be a d#ck about it, it's just the way it is for a lot of us. Older age is not agreeing with her. That being said I'll always love a lot of her music, it's not about that, it's about her behavior specifically the last couple of years.
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by StevieandChris View Post
I think the decision was made based on a mixture of business and personal reasons. I believe all 5 contributed to the breakdown. This happened over time. I think it is was clear after Say You Will that Stevie never wanted to record with Lindsey again. I think Lindseyís attitude/behavior also plays a part. I am not convinced by that video shot by fans means he never said he wanted to delay the tour until 2019. He easily could have said that to FM in the weeks preceding that video. His request combined with his comments over the Classic shows and his manager PLUS the ongoing tension with Stevie may have been what cemented his fate. Was it the right decision? I donít think so. She is obviously narcissistic and has an overflated ego (as does Mick, and as does Lindsey). Itís disappointing. I think the four will regret the decision. But the decision was made. I think the idea anyone is above being fired is ridiculous, no matter how popular or important someone is. If they had given Stevie her walking papers for not recording what became BuckVie, that would have been their right.

I am trying not to argue about it with anyone anymore because it is exhausting and people are upset and need to have a target. Right now that target is Stevie and Mick.
I agree that the video and the statements from those close to the band were proof positive of nothing.
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by secret love View Post
Hi everybody! (I'm Dr Nick...)
So this is a very contentious issue I'm going to open up here.
Stevie Nicks as scapegoat!
It appears that almost everything that is wrong with Fleetwood Mac is in some way, Stephanie Lynn Nicks' fault. Do you agree? Or partially agree, or disagree?
I've said before that I think it is in part due to misogyny that Stevie is being blamed for everything. But I was told not to discuss it so I don't even know if it's okay for me to say that in this thread.
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:29 AM
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I've said before that I think it is in part due to misogyny that Stevie is being blamed for everything. But I was told not to discuss it so I don't even know if it's okay for me to say that in this thread.
Yes, it definitely is, and itís a big part of the reason I donít post here much anymore. I also saw where Christine was called a skank because of Lindseyís departure as well. But itís more often aimed at Stevie.

And the fact that you were told not to discuss it is appalling.
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  #10  
Old 05-15-2018, 01:29 PM
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Yes, it definitely is, and itís a big part of the reason I donít post here much anymore. I also saw where Christine was called a skank because of Lindseyís departure as well. But itís more often aimed at Stevie.
When they started to turn on Christine I realized that we'd started to cross the Rubicon.
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  #11  
Old 05-15-2018, 04:12 PM
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When they started to turn on Christine I realized that we'd started to cross the Rubicon.
People have created an entire alternate reality in their own heads. Apparently, Mick and Stevie orchestrated this and it was a plot. A plot against Lindsey! And Christine is either a skank, or she's gotten too old and senile to object.

I love Lindsey and when I saw the first article about him being fired, I thought it was a joke. It was a huge shock and I understand why people are upset. I was upset, too. But I don't know these people. I don't know what their motives were.

I've said for a long time that you can read between the lines of Stevie's comments about not wanting to record with Fleetwood Mac, and what she's really saying is that she doesn't want to record with Lindsey. Him, specifically. There is evidently something about their dynamic in a recording studio that she just can't deal with and doesn't want to deal with.

Is that disappointing? Of course it is. But I don't know the woman, and (as far as I know) neither does anyone else here. I do know what it's like to have co-workers that you just can't have a functional professional relationship with, and what it's like to reach a point where you say "I just can't do it anymore." So I can't sit in judgment of her for that, as much as I'm disappointed that we won't get to hear new music from that lineup.

Stevie is probably a diva, and Lindsey is probably controlling, and that combined with their 45-year history together probably creates a lot of drama that is greatly intensified in a recording studio.

The facts are that nobody in the band has really said all that much about this situation, which leaves fans to spin their own elaborate stories, appropriately making heroes or villains of their favorite and non-favorite band members. Which is understandable, but I hope that people understand that their own bigotry shows, and their ranting says a lot more about them that it does about the members of FM. And it's often not pretty.

Last edited by markolas : 05-15-2018 at 04:15 PM.
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  #12  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:46 PM
bwboy bwboy is offline
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People have created an entire alternate reality in their own heads. Apparently, Mick and Stevie orchestrated this and it was a plot. A plot against Lindsey! And Christine is either a skank, or she's gotten too old and senile to object.

I love Lindsey and when I saw the first article about him being fired, I thought it was a joke. It was a huge shock and I understand why people are upset. I was upset, too. But I don't know these people. I don't know what their motives were.

I've said for a long time that you can read between the lines of Stevie's comments about not wanting to record with Fleetwood Mac, and what she's really saying is that she doesn't want to record with Lindsey. Him, specifically. There is evidently something about their dynamic in a recording studio that she just can't deal with and doesn't want to deal with.

Is that disappointing? Of course it is. But I don't know the woman, and (as far as I know) neither does anyone else here. I do know what it's like to have co-workers that you just can't have a functional professional relationship with, and what it's like to reach a point where you say "I just can't do it anymore." So I can't sit in judgment of her for that, as much as I'm disappointed that we won't get to hear new music from that lineup.

Stevie is probably a diva, and Lindsey is probably controlling, and that combined with their 45-year history together probably creates a lot of drama that is greatly intensified in a recording studio.

The facts are that nobody in the band has really said all that much about this situation, which leaves fans to spin their own elaborate stories, appropriately making heroes or villains of their favorite and non-favorite band members. Which is understandable, but I hope that people understand that their own bigotry shows, and their ranting says a lot more about them that it does about the members of FM. And it's often not pretty.
Markolas, it sounds like you have a pretty good handle on your perspective of what went down. I pretty much see it your way, too. It's been obvious to many people that Stevie won't record with Lindsey anymore. It's frustrating, but after 40 plus years, they've each earned the right to pick who they can or will work with. FM made a choice and they went with Stevie. It could just as easily have been Lindsey they went with.

I do think Mick sided with Stevie for economic reasons, but that's his right, too. "If we keep Lindsey, we'll get another FM album perhaps, but they won't take John or me on tour with them and the tour won't make as much money anyway because a FM without Stevie won't play big venues or command higher prices. If we keep Stevie, we'll get another FM album perhaps, and we'll get to tour and make more money because a FM with Stevie will play big venues and command higher prices." That's business, but some fans think Mick and John should be content to play on an album (that won't sell well, anyway) and not make money by touring in order to keep their legacy intact. Touring is how this band makes their income. If FM had kicked Stevie out, there would be no arena tour. Actually, there's be no tour at all for John and Mick. Look at what happened when they released Buck/Vie- Lindsey and Christine toured without Mick and John. So yes, it's unfortunate they kicked Lindsey out, but I can see from a financial pov why they did. They've got bills, too.
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:39 PM
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I've said for a long time that you can read between the lines of Stevie's comments about not wanting to record with Fleetwood Mac, and what she's really saying is that she doesn't want to record with Lindsey. Him, specifically. There is evidently something about their dynamic in a recording studio that she just can't deal with and doesn't want to deal with.

.
I think it's basically that he produces. If he was just a guitar player/singer/writer I doubt she would be as bothered. But because he produces, he gets a big part in how her songs end up and so they clash. He's also very perfectionist in the studio which I assume she (and probably others) gets irritated or impatient with. The past couple of years he was really trying to lure her back in the studio with him but it didn't work. I think she had a big grudge over SYW which she didn't like making nor did she like the final product so she thought a new FM album would be like SYW part 2. Even I thought this as well which is why I was pleasantly surprised by the BuckVie album. It was overall very sunny and fun and light and I think had she known it would end up sounding that way, she might've agreed to do it.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:04 AM
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People have created an entire alternate reality in their own heads. Apparently, Mick and Stevie orchestrated this and it was a plot. A plot against Lindsey! And Christine is either a skank, or she's gotten too old and senile to object.

I love Lindsey and when I saw the first article about him being fired, I thought it was a joke. It was a huge shock and I understand why people are upset. I was upset, too. But I don't know these people. I don't know what their motives were.

I've said for a long time that you can read between the lines of Stevie's comments about not wanting to record with Fleetwood Mac, and what she's really saying is that she doesn't want to record with Lindsey. Him, specifically. There is evidently something about their dynamic in a recording studio that she just can't deal with and doesn't want to deal with.

Is that disappointing? Of course it is. But I don't know the woman, and (as far as I know) neither does anyone else here. I do know what it's like to have co-workers that you just can't have a functional professional relationship with, and what it's like to reach a point where you say "I just can't do it anymore." So I can't sit in judgment of her for that, as much as I'm disappointed that we won't get to hear new music from that lineup.

Stevie is probably a diva, and Lindsey is probably controlling, and that combined with their 45-year history together probably creates a lot of drama that is greatly intensified in a recording studio.

The facts are that nobody in the band has really said all that much about this situation, which leaves fans to spin their own elaborate stories, appropriately making heroes or villains of their favorite and non-favorite band members. Which is understandable, but I hope that people understand that their own bigotry shows, and their ranting says a lot more about them that it does about the members of FM. And it's often not pretty.
Really appreciate your post. It eloquently sums up how I feel about the changes in the band, and the ranting on this board.
Agree with everything you wrote.
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Old 06-05-2018, 08:12 AM
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People have created an entire alternate reality in their own heads. Apparently, Mick and Stevie orchestrated this and it was a plot. A plot against Lindsey! And Christine is either a skank, or she's gotten too old and senile to object.

I love Lindsey and when I saw the first article about him being fired, I thought it was a joke. It was a huge shock and I understand why people are upset. I was upset, too. But I don't know these people. I don't know what their motives were.

I've said for a long time that you can read between the lines of Stevie's comments about not wanting to record with Fleetwood Mac, and what she's really saying is that she doesn't want to record with Lindsey. Him, specifically. There is evidently something about their dynamic in a recording studio that she just can't deal with and doesn't want to deal with.

Is that disappointing? Of course it is. But I don't know the woman, and (as far as I know) neither does anyone else here. I do know what it's like to have co-workers that you just can't have a functional professional relationship with, and what it's like to reach a point where you say "I just can't do it anymore." So I can't sit in judgment of her for that, as much as I'm disappointed that we won't get to hear new music from that lineup.

Stevie is probably a diva, and Lindsey is probably controlling, and that combined with their 45-year history together probably creates a lot of drama that is greatly intensified in a recording studio.

The facts are that nobody in the band has really said all that much about this situation, which leaves fans to spin their own elaborate stories, appropriately making heroes or villains of their favorite and non-favorite band members. Which is understandable, but I hope that people understand that their own bigotry shows, and their ranting says a lot more about them that it does about the members of FM. And it's often not pretty.
This is the most common sense response I have seen on any section of this board about this issue. Thank you. They all contributed to this...but the fact remains that it is over and we probably will never know all the reasons. Time to move on!!
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