LB on FM Firing: 'They'd Lost Their Perspective'

[jwd]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

That’s what she said. The others said they got John to vote with them to force Lindsey out.

Can anyone post a link to the video or article where this is stated? I'm really curious about this. I don't remember that.

It might mean she didn’t know ousting Lindsey was in the cards.

Or maybe she knew it was a possibility, but she didn't know it actually happened. Meaning she was part of the discussion, but didn't know the trigger had been pulled.

We’re all only fans, and none of us are qualified to answer that question. All I’m saying is that based on all that has been said up until now, it’s pretty clear that Christine was not part of the decision to oust Lindsey, and based on the tone of what she has said, she was not especially happy about it. But, Mick and John are her family, and she’ll always pick them over the others. That’s just a reality within Fleetwood Mac, especially at this stage.

A lot of speculation going on. No one knows exactly what went down. I'd say it's fair enough that Christine was one who didn't want to get rid of Lindsey. But I believe she concurred with the bands' decision to based on the touring conflict. We all know how eager she was, once she got back in FM to get on the road and tour. She was full tilt in the band touring, and recording. A shame that never happened with the Rumours 5. Thanks Stevie!

You got me. SYW, EP, and a couple of oldies tours are the shining pinnacle of the legacy of Fleetwood Mac.

The pinnacle(s) you're referring to will NEVER happen with FM again, no matter who is in the band. That's what discouraged Stevie so much from recording after SYW. She wanted a "Rumours" and a "Dreams". Lindsey was more about artistic expression and making a current statement from the band. It wasn't about sales or commercial success. You certainly can't fault him for Stevie not wanting to partake, and well, Christine was retired to the English countryside. GO LINDSEY! The band carried on and kept their name out there at least. SYW wasn't a bad record at all. And I'd dare say exposed some new fans to this animal known as FM. Let's not forget the documentary of the making of SYW and the Live in Boston concert DVD that were part of the whole ordeal. More good promotion for the band. Keeping the name out there. That's good for the legacy, no?

But, and this seems to be the point you’re missing, by saying “factions,” he implies that not everyone agreed with what happened. He’s implying that he doesn’t blame Christine with that statement.

He's probably referring, at least in part, to Christine. We don't know for sure what he meant when he said that. I do agree that she is probably the one that he has the least animosity towards since they seemed to be on the same page. That's why we got BuckVie.

Lindsey was lucky to have had the opportunity to join a well established band that had a solid record contract, was big enough to be getting played on the radio, was big enough to sell out places like the Fillmore, had been on national TV, was self-managed and free of external pressures, and was just under the radar enough where the label didn’t care what the band gave them. That what was left of that band was a rhythm section and a singer/songwriter used to being just a third should have been a dream come true. He basically had carte blanche within the confides of being in a band to do whatever he wanted. That’s a hell of an opportunity/outlet. The sad thing is that not only did he not appreciate it, he resented and felt held back by it.

And, what Fleetwood Mac brought to Buckingham Nicks was greater than the other way around. Christine’s songs sounded more refined with Stevie and Lindsey, which is expected, since they spent probably as much time recording that first album as they did all of the Bob Welch era albums combined, but the fundamentals of her songs weren’t that all that different. “Over My Head” could have just as easily been on HAHTF. “Rhiannon,” OTOH, went from sounding a typical bar band song with Buckingham Nicks to sounding like an epic rock masterpiece with Fleetwood Mac.

I've always felt, and most people do, that the sum of the Rumours 5 has always been greater than the parts. That's why a lot of us are so disappointed that they couldn't rise above this latest conflict and give us some new music and a proper tour. They did indeed lose their perspective.

If Lindsey had left after they decided to call the the album something other than Fleetwood and not fed us that “it just felt like a duet album” line of crap, I might be inclined to agree, but Lindsey is the one who said close your eyes, grab the money, and run. So, he’s not exactly pure in that regard, either.

Well if I was Lindsey I'd take the money too! But he was the one who wanted more for FM. Not just to be some touring cash cow operating machine. Is it his fault that Stevie didn't want to record new music with the band? Sometimes you have to be a little politically correct to try to preserve what you feel you have left in the band. Maybe hoping for different outcomes in the future?

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by jwd

Can anyone post a link to the video or article where this is stated? I'm really curious about this. I don't remember that.

I know I read it somewhere. We’ve been inundated with so much that I don’t remember where I saw it. Still, the only two who’ve publicly justified why Lindsey had to go are Stevie and Mick. John hasn’t said anything beyond he likes the new guys and Christine said she wasn’t part of the decision. If majority rules, and Christine wasn’t part of it, it’s not hard to read between the lines.

Or maybe she knew it was a possibility, but she didn't know it actually happened. Meaning she was part of the discussion, but didn't know the trigger had been pulled.

Again, not something any of us will ever be qualified to know.

A lot of speculation going on. No one knows exactly what went down. I'd say it's fair enough that Christine was one who didn't want to get rid of Lindsey. But I believe she concurred with the bands' decision to based on the touring conflict. We all know how eager she was, once she got back in FM to get on the road and tour. She was full tilt in the band touring, and recording. A shame that never happened with the Rumours 5. Thanks Stevie!

But, Stevie’s reluctance is nothing new. I agree she should have been booted on principle, but the reality is she’s the money and she’s close to Mick.

The pinnacle(s) you're referring to will NEVER happen with FM again, no matter who is in the band.

Hence why, if it’s not the classic lineup, at least it’s got top shelf talent and perhaps a chance to hear some favorites that haven’t been played in decades.

Keeping the name out there. That's good for the legacy, no?

Is it? Jim Kale, the bassist for The Guess Who, owns the name and goes out on tour with a bunch of guys who weren’t in that band’s classic lineup. Meanwhile, Burton Cummings and Randy Bachman formed their own duo to go out and play the classics because they don’t have the legal right to the name, even though Burton was the lead singer for all of their hits. It would be like Pete Townshend and Roger Daltry not being able to call themselves The Who.

Regardless, Fleetwood Mac was largely on life support after 2004, and became little more than an oldies act. I’d much rather have had a new band like Buckingham Fleetwood McVie creating new, viable music than reanimating the bloated corpse that Fleetwood Mac had become every few years. When the most exciting to happen to a band is the return of someone that made it possible to hear different old songs, and effectively giving us a proper tour for TITN, it’s hard for me to be overly sentimental for that period.

I've always felt, and most people do, that the sum of the Rumours 5 has always been greater than the parts. That's why a lot of us are so disappointed that they couldn't rise above this latest conflict and give us some new music and a proper tour. They did indeed lose their perspective.

Their perspective is the bag of money.

[Dr.Brown]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

...Their perspective is the bag of money.

I agree. The following is from the thread "Stevie as scapegoat" in the Stevie Nicks forum with a nice recap from Murrow and my response.

Originally Posted by Murrow

I've expressed some of this in other threads but this seems more appropriate for the purpose.

Yes I do blame her for a lot.

2005 or so: I'm not doing another Mac album as the only female.

2014: Can we delay Mac activity even though Chris is back cos I've booked studio time.

One tour later

2016: I don't want to do a Mac album period.

My considered opinion is that Mick should have said "We're not waiting" to her in 2016 (better still 2014) the same way he claims he's done with Lindsey.

More than anything I blame Mick. He's just got too much of a soft spot for Stevie to put his foot down with her about anything these days. Did he seriously think having BOTH those two back in the band was going to work for any great length of time. All it produced was 20 years of jack s*** apart from Say You Will and that poxy excuse for an EP.

Mick's soft spot is that he knows which side his bread is buttered on, realizing that an FM with Stevie means much more money in his wallet than one without. This is why so many are disgusted - this once great band has been reduced to nothing more than a cash cow for him. Witness his charging fans $600 a pop plus fees for a brief meeting (ticket price not included!) as part of what I call his "Meet & Fleece" program.

There are also those who are very disappointed with Christine as I am but I'm certain that in an earlier era Christine would have been much more outspoken. The thing is she's now pushing 75 and age sadly does take its toll.

[SteveMacD]

I agree with everything Murrow said, which is why I was mad last year. What’s happening now is hardly a surprise, except that they got amazing talent this time around.

[elle]

Originally Posted by Dr.Brown

I agree. The following is from the thread "Stevie as scapegoat" in the Stevie Nicks forum with a nice recap from Murrow and my response.



Mick's soft spot is that he knows which side his bread is buttered on, realizing that an FM with Stevie means much more money in his wallet than one without. This is why so many are disgusted - this once great band has been reduced to nothing more than a cash cow for him. Witness his charging fans $600 a pop plus fees for a brief meeting (ticket price not included!) as part of what I call his "Meet & Fleece" program.

There are also those who are very disappointed with Christine as I am but I'm certain that in an earlier era Christine would have been much more outspoken. The thing is she's now pushing 75 and age sadly does take its toll.

Scapegoat??

Ok so that term is used for a person blamed for sins or mistakes of others. Who would be those others? Mick? Well most people blame him along with her. John? We blame John, but he didn’t get the ball rolling, according to Mick he had to be talked into it. Christine? Again, she didn’t stop it but she made it clear that she knew nothing about it so she is not a part of “majority rules”. Lindsey? He made it clear it’s not his doing or his choice.

Meanwhile Stevie went to great lengths to explain she wanted Lindsey out so she can be happy and dancing. So what is she a scapegoat for??

[jwd]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Is it? Jim Kale, the bassist for The Guess Who, owns the name and goes out on tour with a bunch of guys who weren’t in that band’s classic lineup. Meanwhile, Burton Cummings and Randy Bachman formed their own duo to go out and play the classics because they don’t have the legal right to the name, even though Burton was the lead singer for all of their hits. It would be like Pete Townshend and Roger Daltry not being able to call themselves The Who.

Regardless, Fleetwood Mac was largely on life support after 2004, and became little more than an oldies act. I’d much rather have had a new band like Buckingham Fleetwood McVie creating new, viable music than reanimating the bloated corpse that Fleetwood Mac had become every few years. When the most exciting to happen to a band is the return of someone that made it possible to hear different old songs, and effectively giving us a proper tour for TITN, it’s hard for me to be overly sentimental for that period.

Except in this case the core of the Rumours 5 was still there. Problem was that one of the members didn't want to make new music anymore, within the confines of FM.



Don't you ever concede defeat?

[louielouie2000]

Bottom line, for those who proclaim this latest Mac chapter is forward movement, it will only be so under 1 condition: if they record a new studio album. Without new material, they are in even sadder shape than they were before. At least last time around FM was an in tact oldies group. Now they’re an oldies group that’s being cobbled together from the ruins of other oldies groups.

I will also argue that there was a point in time where the FM name ceased to be fluid. I’d wager that point was in the first half of the 1990s. By that point they had fully become a legacy act. No new radio hits were in the cards, and the band’s lineup and set list had both cemented. From there out the public has tolerated no more than 1 of the 5 members being absent. They were smart when Christine left to not replace her- we’ll see how the public reacts this go around with Lindsey’s replacements. If they monkey with the lineup any further, they risk opening for REO Speedwagon again.

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

. Now they’re an oldies group that’s being cobbled together from the ruins of other oldies groups.

So Frankenwood Mac might be a more appropriate name now

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Bottom line, for those who proclaim this latest Mac chapter is forward movement,

Who’s been saying that this is forward movement?

it will only be so under 1 condition: if they record a new studio album.

I agree that the only way this new lineup matters is if they make an album. They would be fools to let the opportunity to make an album with talent of that caliber pass, and I have every faith in their ability to do just that. The thing is, a new Fleetwood Mac album wouldn’t be possible with Lindsey in the band, but it is possible now. Just how probable a new album is remains to be seen. But new album or not, I don’t think anyone sees this as a step forward.

Without new material, they are in even sadder shape than they were before. At least last time around FM was an in tact oldies group. Now they’re an oldies group that’s being cobbled together from the ruins of other oldies groups.

At least they won’t be playing songs off the same five albums this time out. That’s more interesting to me at this point, and I’m more interested in seeing Lindsey be the artist he wants to be.

From there out the public has tolerated no more than 1 of the 5 members being absent. They were smart when Christine left to not replace her- we’ll see how the public reacts this go around with Lindsey’s replacements. If they monkey with the lineup any further, they risk opening for REO Speedwagon again.

Yeah, Mike and Neil are legends in their own right. Billy and Bekka were second generation rockers, Rick a sideman, and Dave Mason a has-been who had nothing new or compelling to offer. There is no parallel with this lineup.