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  #61  
Old 03-03-2021, 05:49 PM
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SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
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Originally Posted by jmn3 View Post
I think there were a few red flags. They didn't tour behind Time, and the tour they did do in 1994-95 wasn't exactly a big successÖ

Just taking a quick look at a 1995 setlist (as far as setlist.fm is correct anyway) and they were playing SEVEN songs off Rumours and two off the White album. More than half of their set was made up of Lindsey/Chris/Stevie songs, and none of them were even in the band.
At the time, though, itís not like there was an album of new material to promote, which made the gigs they were doing forgivable. I actually loved that they opened for CSN in 1994.

As for the songs, what else would they have played beyond something from Behind the Mask? And, Iím not sure Billy was considered a member initially on that tour. Dave Mason made it sound like Billy was an auxiliary player in a pre-tour interview.

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It's not like if they actually toured after Time was released (again without Chris, Lindsey, or Stevie) that suddenly a new wave of fans would have discovered this new version of Fleetwood Mac and they would have continued.
It wouldnít have been anything comparable in terms of album sales, but thatís also when No Depression/alt.country/Americana/Outlaw Country started coming into the fold. Swap out Dave Mason for Mick Taylor and it could have taken on a life of its own.

However...

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The Eagles comparison is obvious - while they were touring the World with HFO, Mick and John were playing on double/triple bills on the county fair circuit. The money sitting on the table for a Rumours reunion was way too much.
Which was the only reason they ever reunited. They kind of sold their soul with that. That said, none of them were in positions to turn it down.

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It was going to happen and there was no way that Bekka, Billy, and Dave were going to be preferred over a Chris/Stevie/Lindsey lineup.
It could have hypothetically been Peter/Welch/Bekka and that would be true. The Inauguration really cemented the Rumours lineup as the only legitimate Fleetwood Mac lineup.

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Mick and Lindsey working together. Stevie and Lindsey doing Twisted. If anyone in that mid-90's Fleetwood Mac didn't see what was obviously going to happen, they were being purposefully clueless.
Twisted happened after Mick broke the band up.
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  #62  
Old 03-03-2021, 06:57 PM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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Fleetwood Mac is going to reunite again for a scaled down farewell tour with The Rumours 5 Lineup -- and everything else will fall by the wayside. There will be no Mike Campbell and Neil Finn involvement - period.
I really don't see how it could be definite that Mike or Neil won't be involved.
If it's Lindsey back, who's going to run the rehearsals and build the set...Lindsey again? Stevie complained about having to rehearse during the afternoon because Lindsey had to have dinner with his family. I don't see Lindsey becoming a softie for her either just because he was welcomed back.

If you have Mike, you have somebody who can hear them both out, he respects Lindsey and I don't think he kisses Stevie's ring. He, partly, is responsible for the success of her solo career.

I remember when RS asked him what he had to say in response to Stevie saying "Tom shouldn't have done the 2017 tour." He basically said Stevie's coming from a place of love but wasn't around and didn't know that Tom really wanted to do the tour. He's his own Legend. Considering he produced Patti's first album, I'm sure he could get in the E Street Band anyday too.
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  #63  
Old 03-03-2021, 07:57 PM
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I remember when RS asked him what he had to say in response to Stevie saying "Tom shouldn't have done the 2017 tour." He basically said Stevie's coming from a place of love but wasn't around and didn't know that Tom really wanted to do the tour.
Stevie’s right, though. A hip replacement is a common procedure that takes three months to a year to recover from. It’s certainly not something worthy of needlessly suffering and relapsing on heroin to manage the pain, eventually leading to a fatal overdose. The world wouldn’t have ended if the Heartbreakers delayed the tour by a year.

I have friends who’ve had hip replacements. My father had one. All are almost as good as before their hips went bad and are living normal lives. One of them even asked if he could get the other one done.

So, losing someone so consequential to something so relatively minor...Stevie’s absolutely right.
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  #64  
Old 03-03-2021, 08:13 PM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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Stevieís right, though. A hip replacement is a common procedure that takes three months to a year to recover from. Itís certainly not something worthy of needlessly suffering and relapsing on heroin to manage the pain, eventually leading to a fatal overdose. The world wouldnít have ended if the Heartbreakers delayed the tour by a year.

I have friends whoíve had hip replacements. My father had one. All are almost as good as before their hips went bad and are living normal lives. One of them even asked if he could get the other one done.

So, losing someone so consequential to something so relatively minor...Stevieís absolutely right.
I believe you. I don't know anyone who's had one.

The context of the interview was that with the comment by Stevie, there could be a feeling of responsibility by Mike to have talked Tom out of it. I think Mike said nobody forced Tom to tour, he wanted to do the 2017 Tour.

Regretfully, I didn't go. I last saw them on Hypnotic Eye.
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  #65  
Old 03-03-2021, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams View Post
I'm not understanding... what would Lindsey be apologizing for?
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He probably doesn't, but he is going to have appease Stevie and acknowledge to her what he could have done better....


Stevie is the one who needs to do all the groveling to Lindsey, and she won't.

Lindsey always thought Mick was weak/no balls so had no problem with him, even in 2018. he had a big problem with Stevie after what she did to him (which, to all who insisted otherwise, Mick basically confirms in this interview is what happened).

Lindsey doesn't need FM so if he decides to apologize to Stevie just so he can do yet another greatest cashgrab tour he would be equivalent to Mick in sad weakness. it better never happens.
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  #66  
Old 03-03-2021, 09:17 PM
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Somehow, I would love the elements that are not healed to be healed. I love the fantasy that we could cross that bridge and everyone could leave with creative, holistic energy, and everyone could be healed with grace and dignity.”
says the guy who made sure to dig the rift deeper and deeper in 2018-19. remember "we will never play with Lindsey Buckingham again" "hit the brick wall" etc etc.

but sure, all healing and peace and love talk now.

you can tell how much i love hypocrites.
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  #67  
Old 03-03-2021, 11:13 PM
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(which, to all who insisted otherwise, Mick basically confirms in this interview is what happened).
“And both of us have been beautifully honest about who we are and how we got to where we were.”

Sounds like Mick had his issues with Lindsey and they’re finally talking about it, now.

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Lindsey doesn't need FM so if he decides to apologize to Stevie just so he can do yet another greatest cashgrab tour he would be equivalent to Mick in sad weakness. it better never happens.
He’d happily rejoin if they asked him. He wouldn’t think twice. It’s good publicity for him.

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Originally Posted by elle View Post
says the guy who made sure to dig the rift deeper and deeper in 2018-19. remember "we will never play with Lindsey Buckingham again" "hit the brick wall" etc etc.

but sure, all healing and peace and love talk now.

you can tell how much i love hypocrites.
Mick was frustrated by what happened during the tour negotiations, which by all accounts were absolutely brutal.
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  #68  
Old 03-03-2021, 11:32 PM
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I really don't see how it could be definite that Mike or Neil won't be involved.
If it's Lindsey back, who's going to run the rehearsals and build the set...Lindsey again? Stevie complained about having to rehearse during the afternoon because Lindsey had to have dinner with his family. I don't see Lindsey becoming a softie for her either just because he was welcomed back.
Time will tell. We will follow up on this topic in about a year. I could be wrong, but I would bet money that Mike and Neil absolutely won't be involved from here on. The final tour will be the Rumours lineup.

These people don't have many tours left in them. Sadly, one or more of them stand a chance of passing away within the next 10 years. Christine is nearing 80.

As far a rehearsing, what's the point? They've been playing the same set list for years, then throwing in one or two deep album tracks. Moreover, the way sound engineering is done for touring artists now -- its basically like singing to karaoke tracks. Much is pre-recorded and cannot be deviated from. What's to rehearse?

That's mostly Stevie drama -- she sits up there and pretends like she has to rehearse "Gold Dust Woman" and "Dreams" at 2 o'clock in the morning for the tour to be successful. Laughable.
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  #69  
Old 03-04-2021, 08:50 AM
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I tend to think Mick has been around the Stevie-Lindsey drama that he approaches it more strategically than with any personal stakes. He has tried to smooth it over enough to keep the machine going, but heís generally moved to whatever position is best for continuing (his payday with) the band. Right now, thereís probably some sense that they donít want to wait for her to do a solo album and tour before another FM tour. But whatever comes out of the gates first post-pandemic is likely to be pretty lucrative.

I doubt Mick holds much against Lindsey re: negotiations or things going south with Stevie. He seems to accept that Stevie and Lindsey are opposites and will always fight. He went hard after Lindsey after the firing to shore up support for Stevie and the band. Now that she may be the holdout to an even bigger payday, heís softening his stance on Lindsey.

It reminds me of how they all said pretty nasty stuff about Lindsey when he left in 1987. Put him down to promote the new, even better version of the band that just so happens to be playing shows near you!

This would all be easier to tolerate if FM didnít spend the better part of 40 years selling the schtick that the band is about family and relationships and isnít just a business arrangement among people who donít like each other, like the Stones or the Eagles. Because thatís really what it is and perhaps always has been. Itís hard to look back at the band, especially post Tusk, and argue that money wasnít the primary ó and perhaps only ó driver.

Maybe Lindsey was right about cycles. Itís just that the cycles that actually dominate FM are dysfunction and greed, not healing.
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  #70  
Old 03-04-2021, 09:16 AM
jmn3 jmn3 is offline
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That's mostly Stevie drama -- she sits up there and pretends like she has to rehearse "Gold Dust Woman" and "Dreams" at 2 o'clock in the morning for the tour to be successful. Laughable.
I'm sorry but do you think the dance that she does during the outro of Gold Dust Woman just creates itself? That type of coordinated art doesn't just manifest out of thin air. Likewise with Dreams, or Rhiannon, do you think finding even less nuance and excitement from the low energy levels of the previous tour just happens? It takes hours and hours, from 10pm-3am, to come up with these things. Plus, I mean, Stevie is a big ROCK AND ROLL STAR! And she's cool. And we all know the cool kids don't even get their party started until after Midnight.
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  #71  
Old 03-04-2021, 09:29 AM
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As for the songs, what else would they have played beyond something from Behind the Mask? And, Iím not sure Billy was considered a member initially on that tour. Dave Mason made it sound like Billy was an auxiliary player in a pre-tour interview.
I guess my point was there were other "Fleetwood Mac" songs that could have been played, including from BTM, that wasn't 70% of the Rumours album. They just continued to cement that the 1975-87 lineup was the real band and any other incarnation is really just here to play the songs that you know, even if you aren't sure who is singing/playing them. Which goes to your other point, that once the inauguration happened in 1993, it was inevitable that they'd reunite at some point and anything else was just a placeholder.

I'd argue the Stones in 1989 kind of began that trend for the classic rock genre. Except they released a new album every time they toured until 2013 (maybe '99). But it was basically, we're going to come out every few years and play the songs you know along with maybe a few new ones to try to keep us relevant. The boomers are starting to enter their peak earning years, want to relive their youth, and had the money to do so. We're here to help for one night! It really was inevitable for any of these bands who did it because it was a massive payday opportunity.

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Twisted happened after Mick broke the band up.
Good catch, that time period gets a little blurry for me
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  #72  
Old 03-04-2021, 10:33 AM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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^At least in 2013, they had 2 new songs to play at each show. From 16-18, they did stuff from B&L.
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  #73  
Old 03-04-2021, 03:31 PM
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I have not been on here in ages but I came the second I saw that interview. Mick is a money-grubber, plain and simple, the second it occurred to him that Stevie will prob never tour with the Mac again, he reached out to LB, I'm convinced it was just that simple. But either way, this won't happen. Concerts aren't happening any time soon, they're all old AF and the insurance would be crazy.
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  #74  
Old 03-04-2021, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jmn3 View Post
I guess my point was there were other "Fleetwood Mac" songs that could have been played, including from BTM, that wasn't 70% of the Rumours album. They just continued to cement that the 1975-87 lineup was the real band and any other incarnation is really just here to play the songs that you know, even if you aren't sure who is singing/playing them.
Absolutely. That version of the band could have ó in fact, should have ó opened up their set to all manner of Mac catalogue songs: Rattlesnake Shake, Sands of Time (Billy on lead vocal for some Kirwan songs would have been lovely and unexpected), Underway, Black Magic Woman, Believe Me (Bekka would have been far more convincing on this than on Say You Love Me), Sentimental Lady, Jumping at Shadows (Mason on lead vocal on a great slow blues instead of his atrocious Blow by Blow), etc. At Konocti Harbor Spa & Resort in October 1994, the band should have sold itself as a blues and power-pop outfit rather than a Rumours tribute band. Billy and Bekka were cute young things, but Mason was vacuous, and the band conveyed no cohesive identity other than as a Rumours tribute band. The audience (of about 300) should have left the show thinking what a fun little blues-rock outfit they are ó instead of ďI feel like seeing the real Fleetwood Mac now.Ē

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Which goes to your other point, that once the inauguration happened in 1993, it was inevitable that they'd reunite at some point and anything else was just a placeholder.
In retrospect, a lot of things look inevitable, Jim. But I seriously doubt that any Rumours reunion was being engineered that early. Stevie and Rick did press all year in 1994 for Street Angel, and it was painfully obvious that she and Mac had parted ways permanently (she assumed permanently). Rick, too. As for Lindsey, youíve seen that press conference right before the inaugural ball, right? He wasnít looking for a reunion, to put it mildly. I canít believe that any serious reflection on a possible reunion was happening to any of them until 1996 (except maybe Mick).

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It really was inevitable for any of these bands who did it because it was a massive payday opportunity.
I say to all of them: go for the payday if thatís what you want. But youíd better deliver something worth listening to (or watching), or your sensible fans will glom on to the younger, hungrier bandsómusicians who have something burning inside them and want to get it out. Sitting in Fleetwood Mac concerts these days is like being forced to read all the Hallmark greeting cards at the supermarket; the emotions arenít genuine, the artistís need for self-expression has dried up, the execution is flashy but insubstantial, and the knowledge that youíre being sold a dumb product is overpowering.
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  #75  
Old 03-04-2021, 04:25 PM
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Absolutely. That version of the band could have ó in fact, should have ó opened up their set to all manner of Mac catalogue songs: Rattlesnake Shake, Sands of Time (Billy on lead vocal for some Kirwan songs would have been lovely and unexpected), Underway, Black Magic Woman, Believe Me (Bekka would have been far more convincing on this than on Say You Love Me), Sentimental Lady, Jumping at Shadows (Mason on lead vocal on a great slow blues instead of his atrocious Blow by Blow), etc. At Konocti Harbor Spa & Resort in October 1994, the band should have sold itself as a blues and power-pop outfit rather than a Rumours tribute band. Billy and Bekka were cute young things, but Mason was vacuous, and the band conveyed no cohesive identity other than as a Rumours tribute band. The audience (of about 300) should have left the show thinking what a fun little blues-rock outfit they are ó instead of ďI feel like seeing the real Fleetwood Mac now.Ē
I just donít think this would have worked- no disrespect to that particular incarnation of the band, but I canít imagine the majority of folks who were at a show to see FM would enjoy most of the songs you listed, of which they likely never heard of before. Even if the band rocked the house. I consider myself a fan of most of the FM eras, and even I couldnít place a handful of the songs you mentioned. Blues arenít my thing, I mean I enjoy a few songs like that during a show, but not as many as you mentioned. If FM had sold themselves as a blues band during that tour, I think even less people would have showed up. By the time they released Time, the band was just too different from the Rumours 5 to successfully continue on.
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