The Stevie of old...

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Unfortunately, when she tackles other topics, she merely taps the surface, never really giving us much substance. I'm thinking of things like "Desert Angel" and, I almost hate to say it, "Illume."

I know.

Although I really like if not love Illume, esp. the brilliant guitar at the beginning, I just think it could have been great instead of just really good. She totally has me until the diamond/jade part. Her voice in the "cliffdweller" (I love that line) initial segment positively dances for me. Then, I just do not get why she essentially repeats the chorus so many times a la "Say You Will" and adds that gimmicky voice thing (I blame LB for this as he apprently loves it ). Then, she emerges from that gimmick with one of best vocals I've heard (and there are many past and present) with the pain inducing, longing, almost tearful final "I'm alone now, with my thoughts . . . . la la la la lalalalalalala." That part of the song along with the beginning part I mentioned give me chills to this day after may many listens and may even occasioanlly shed a tear or two if booze is involved

But, I must say, many think the song is great the way it is. So, "who am I to [bring them] down" Also, maybe I am the one who does not get it. For example, maybe she and LB intentionally did the whole gimmicky and repetitious thing in an effort to punctuate the effect of her voice in the last part I mentioned. If that was their goal, they acheived it in a big way as that last vocal initially surprised me and I now cannot wait to "get thorugh" (a la the song's theme) the heavy middle part and hear her passion as if she has also gotten through it. In any event, I like the song and am not slamming it. I am just adding my unlearned in comparison $0.02 for LB and SN if they are listening

On another topic, I totally think that SN is intentionally somehwat demure when others are on stage or when others have a solo or even a solo in one of her songs. As I have said many times, right or wrong, I think it would take just one twirl during the GYOW solo and 90% of the eyes would leave LB and go, even if just for minute or a few seconds, to the pretty dervish. This would be in my opinion wrong if she did it too much (hey one twirl wouldn't kill it ) as it is the FM, not SN solo, tour. So, I say kudos to her for giving space to others so they can shine just as brightly.

Also, although I have not seen this tour yet (7 more days ), I think LB in the past has also done this. For example, when SN was vocally way into Landslide or during Sara or SOTM. In fact, in some past performances, he would be in the background and in some cases sitting on the drum riser while SN had the spotlight for Landslide and certainly his guitar playing is at least half of that song. Interstingly, they also both "gave the light" so to speak (as if it is anyone's to "give" ) to CM during songbird.

So, who know for sure, but I think it is great that SN and LB are now seemingly perhaps even more respectful of each other.

[stefan]

Originally posted by joe68


I like SYW, but I think the Mac ruined a great opportunity. Chris would have really added to this record and to leave her off of it because she didnt want to tour makes no sense to me. Stevie keeps saying, "What if Christine has the single...?".

I don`t agree on this. Ruining a great opportunity? To me it`s a really good record. And regarding Christines latest contributions after Lindsey had left: I didn`t feel like Christine had too many good and new ideas to offer

Originally posted by joe68

Well, what if she does? Lindsey had the single ("Big Love") right before he quit the band and I don't think it had any repurcussions on the 1987 tour.

Well I absolutely don't agree on that Replacing Lindsey was an impossible thing to do and these two guys tried their best but it was a huge loss seeing the band in Dortmund back in 1988 without Lindsey. (my only FM concert experience)

The one thing I too would like to be different: FM and especially Lindsey should get away from this "big formula" thing. They all have enough money (except of Mick I guess) and why don`t they get rid of this major label to release records more often and to tour in smaller venues. Tom Waits or a lot of other artists, who play here in 200-1000 seat clubs can do it. Why can`t they? Then they wouldn't need to play all the boring Rumours stuff no more.

And a last point regarding Stevie and her contributions to SYW. I think her songs are far better than on TISL. Except of the clunker Silver girl which would have fit perfectly on her solo things. Some people hate Illume other ones love this track. Most people love EFO or Smile at you. The point is- I think some of her songs are quite different than we were used to and that`s a fine surprise. Her voice is pretty good and a lot of people were happy with her stage performance/vocal performance.

I`m glad they are doing this tour. They seem to be in good shape so I wouldn`t worry.

[The Tower]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
And though Stevie has evolved in some ways, she absolutely has refused to truly grow. She uses the same chords over and over, she refuses to edit herself and she keeps going back to the old tired topics. I can deal with her new voice, which still grates on me occasionally, but the substandard writing has no excuse. I've said it before here: Focus on quality rather than quantity.

Maybe she doesn't believe in the stuff herself, hence the lack of emotion. How many lost-love songs can you write before you start boring yourself? Unfortunately, when she tackles other topics, she merely taps the surface, never really giving us much substance. I'm thinking of things like "Desert Angel" and, I almost hate to say it, "Illume."

When I compare Illume to the stuff Bruce Springsteen did, it's like a superficial MSNBC segment versus the PBS special on the six firefighters who rode their bikes across the country to thank the nation for their support in the aftermath of 9/11. Stevie's writing is uninspired in this song; it's an indulgent fear fest. Bruce, on the other hand, tackles that day and its aftermath in a sensitive, sensible and compassionate way.

I don't expect Stevie to stand on stage and scream her head off anymore. But I have the right to expect better writing.

Finally, to say she is "letting" Lindsey take the spotlight on this tour is just silly. Look at footage from Lindsey going back to the Tusk tour. He was always electric. But since Stevie spent most of the time off stage back then, when she came back on and twirled, people noticed. No doubt, her stage presence was magnificent. Now, with her standing there like a mere stage prop and Lindsey continuing to give it his all, people understandably notice him more.

Carne.... usually I appreciate your usual "devil's advocate"/Stevie bashing/Lindsey blow jobbing rhetoric, but all of this above stuff is just crap.

First of all, if anyone is guilty of using the same tired chords over and over and over again, it's Bruce Springsteen.... HELLLO!!! How many ****ing songs can you have that are I IV V7 over and over and over and over and over..... Springsteen is an unoriginal Dylan ripoff. "The Rising" sucked ass and didn't have an original bone in its body. Any song that has "Na na na na na" as a lyric is a piece of ****.

At least Stevie has conviction to stand up and represent her same tired old chords over and over and over. And at least she can sing fer chrissakes... Springsteen can barely burp these days- not like he ever could before... ("Oh, but he's SUCH an ARTIST !!!!") F**k off, ya **** (In all my best Christine McVie British humour.....). I would rather hear Stevie rip out another Am - G - F major 7th Rhiannon ripoff with passionate lyrics and delivery any day over the bull**** music that's out there today (stupid American Idol suckfests and rap bull**** NOISE).

"Substandard writing"?!?!?!?!? WTF is that?!?!? Almost every single pop song since the Beatles is based on the same few chord progressions. The only thing that separates stars from other musicians is charisma. Yeah, yer damn right Springsteen has charisma- and that's the only reason why he's where he is today, just like Stevie... AND Lindsey for that matter. No amount of production wizardry and "superior writing" could get Gift of Screws released without the power and charisma of Stevie Nicks and that's the plain ****ing truth of the matter.

Lindsey has never been a bigger show stopper or larger charismatic stage presence than Stevie.... EVER! His guitar playing is better than just about anyone out there today. His voice is STILL screaming and fantastic at 53. However...... if you are going to go on and on about someone using the same chords over and over again then Lindsey is more guilty than most. Hell, his entire contribution to Tusk was only three or four chords... "Save Me a Place" and "Walk A Thin Line" were really his only great contributions to that album. "Not That Funny", "I Know I'm Not Wrong", "The Ledge", and "Tusk" were all pretty much one or two chord throwaway duplicates of each other.

Stevie has more stage presence with moving one finger than Lindsey has in breaking all six strings of his guitar and shrieking his vocal chords to death on a piece of **** like "Come". I would much rather hear Stevie pouring out the warmth and radiance of a standard pop song like "Say You Will" any day... You can't get vocals like that from any other music star these days. One can actually FEEL her words when she sings them- you can FEEL the meaning of

"Say you will, say you will
Give me one more chance
At least give me time to change your mind
That always seems to heal the wounds
If I can.... get you to dance....."

I absolutely can see Stevie sitting at the piano and playing the simple chord progression of that song and POURING her heart out to Christine McVie- begging her to come back to the band.

"Substandard songwriting"??? I don't think "Ilume" is all that great either, but I think "Desert Angel" was a masterpiece of emotion that most "artists" today can't even touch.

"Well, I live below... a great, red mountain....
In the shade of a great, huge beast....
In a place the Indians call... Paradise Valley....
Well, well, this has ALWAYS been my sanctuary-
I send that to you, TOO!!!"

PASSION! One can't find out there much any more.... And I DO expect Stevie to stand on stage and scream her head off 'cause I know she can do it, dammit!!! All you have to do is open your ears and realize that on "Everybody Finds Out" she's ripping a B flat, which she hasn't done since The Wild Heart. Jeez, the woman is 54 and her voice sounds just as good as it did 25 years ago.

Both Lindsey AND Stevie deserve kudos for being who they are today and for still being vital, passionate artists.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Just to add my 2 cents about Illume

I love it. It's just what I expected it to be. It's totally Stevie, and I love what Lindsey did with it. I really love everything about it, even the weird Lindsey voice. I love the lyrics, ESPECIALLY 'trade you for jade.' The only lyric I dislike "it's just like a river, it's never ending," but we've heard worse, so I can overlook that.

The other thing is, I have no desire whatsoever to want to compare it to tired old 'Dreams' or sleepy old 'Rhiannon.' Examine it from what it is, not based upon songs that were written 30 years ago. And even if we don't think about it in 1970's terms, how dare we remark upon what the song "could have been?" It's not our creation so it's not our place to do that.

The Rising does NOTHING for me, but that's just me. The two songs are not even in the same league.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
Just to add my 2 cents about Illume

I love it. It's just what I expected it to be. It's totally Stevie, and I love what Lindsey did with it. I really love everything about it, even the weird Lindsey voice. I love the lyrics, ESPECIALLY 'trade you for jade.' The only lyric I dislike "it's just like a river, it's never ending," but we've heard worse, so I can overlook that.

The other thing is, I have no desire whatsoever to want to compare it to tired old 'Dreams' or sleepy old 'Rhiannon.' Examine it from what it is, not based upon songs that were written 30 years ago. And even if we don't think about it in 1970's terms, how dare we remark upon what the song "could have been?" It's not our creation so it's not our place to do that.

The Rising does NOTHING for me, but that's just me. The two songs are not even in the same league.

I was not saying SN should do anything I say. Who am I to tell her what to do and she obviously has done very well without my $0.02

I was just praising the song and then saying I would have done it differently which I think is not wrong or out of place for me to do. In fact, I think everyone on some level does this mental exercise everyday in many different ways about people actions, the clothes they wear, the way buildings look, people's driving, etc. But, if I offended you I am sorry for offending you as that was not my intent.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I was not saying SN should do anything I say. Who am I to tell her what to do and she obviously has done very well without my $0.02

I was just praising the song and then saying I would have done it differently which I think is not wrong or out of place for me to do. In fact, I think everyone on some level does this mental exercise everyday in many different ways about people actions, the clothes they wear, the way buildings look, people's driving, etc. But, if I offended you I am sorry for offending you as that was not my intent.

I wasn't talking about you, silly No offense taken. In fact, I agree with most everything you said.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
I wasn't talking about you, silly No offense taken. In fact, I agree with most everything you said.

I was thinking - Yipes - I was so careful in my earlier post!!!!!!!!

Oops eee daisee on my part!!!!!

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by The Tower
Any song that has "Na na na na na" as a lyric is a piece of ****.
...
("Oh, but he's SUCH an ARTIST !!!!") F**k off, ya **** (In all my best Christine McVie British humour.....). I would rather hear Stevie rip out another Am - G - F major 7th Rhiannon ripoff with passionate lyrics and delivery any day over the bull**** music that's out there today (stupid American Idol suckfests and rap bull**** NOISE).

"Substandard writing"?!?!?!?!? WTF is that?!?!? ... No amount of production wizardry and "superior writing" could get Gift of Screws released without the power and charisma of Stevie Nicks and that's the plain ****ing truth of the matter...
...

"Substandard songwriting"??? I don't think "Ilume" is all that great either, but I think "Desert Angel" was a masterpiece of emotion that most "artists" today can't even touch.

"Well, I live below... a great, red mountain....
In the shade of a great, huge beast....
In a place the Indians call... Paradise Valley....
Well, well, this has ALWAYS been my sanctuary-
I send that to you, TOO!!!"

Dude, take a deep breath. Wash your keyboard out with some soap, then talk to me. Meanwhile I'll keep laughing about your defense of Desert Angel.

[Johnny Stew]

Personally, I love Stevie's musings on love & heartbreak.
She writes about romanticism in all of its bittersweet glory, and she does it better than just about anyone else.

I've never tired of the thematic basis of her songs, and I highly doubt I ever will. The chord structures might not be "original," but the heart and soul behind the songs is always unique and genuine.

I don't listen to music to hear about politics or starvation or children dying... that's what I watch CNN for. I'm reasonably intelligent and well-read... I don't need preached to.
I listen to music to be taken away to another place.

And while it may be escapist entertainment at its heart, it also moves me, uplifts me, and empowers me... and those qualities are always evident in Stevie's songs. From her earliest to her latest.
Her heart and soul shines through every one of them, and it never seems as if she's trying to beat you over the head with flashy bric-a-brac, or trying to prove something to God knows who.
Stevie is a woman in her 50s, who seems quite comfortable in her skin... she's not still suffering from growing pains or some unresolved bruised-ego angst.
She's also well aware of the fact that what she's writing won't change the world... but that it may brighten the world of those in her audience, and that's what inspires her to keep writing about love and all of its trappings.

If that means she hasn't grown in her writing, then so be it. She doesn't have to prove anything to me, she just has to continue writing songs that keep me coming back for more... and she's still doing that.
And apparently there are many others who feel the way I do.

[blinker12]

Tower, you make a brilliant point in comparing Stevie's much-maligned chord progressions to Springsteen's. His aren't any more original than hers _ perhaps less so.
And in fact, I think there's recent evidence that Stevie is pushing herself in new directions musically. Have we ever heard a progression from her like the one she uses on the chorus of "Say You Will"? Not that I recall. She uses pretty much all the chords in the key... I didn't know she knew that many!
The lyrics also have a discipline that she hasn't always displayed before.
Of course, then she turns out a snoozer like "Silver Girl" to keep us from getting too excited. I like the song OK, but it's a "paint-by-numbers" track for her. Same old chords, and the lyrics are about as graceful as a ton of bricks.

[The Tower]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Dude, take a deep breath. Wash your keyboard out with some soap, then talk to me. Meanwhile I'll keep laughing about your defense of Desert Angel.

Oh, don't be so mean!!! C'mon... you know you're a closeted Desert Angel lover..... It's a classic!!!

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by The Tower
Oh, don't be so mean!!! C'mon... you know you're a closeted Desert Angel lover..... It's a classic!!!

I'm mean!?

[ERigby818]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I really like if not love Illume, esp. the brilliant guitar at the beginning, I just think it could have been great instead of just really good. She totally has me until the diamond/jade part. Her voice in the "cliffdweller" (I love that line) initial segment positively dances for me. Then, I just do not get why she essentially repeats the chorus so many times a la "Say You Will" and adds that gimmicky voice thing (I blame LB for this as he apprently loves it ). Then, she emerges from that gimmick with one of best vocals I've heard (and there are many past and present) with the pain inducing, longing, almost tearful final "I'm alone now, with my thoughts . . . . la la la la lalalalalalala." That part of the song along with the beginning part I mentioned give me chills to this day after may many listens and may even occasioanlly shed a tear or two if booze is involved

Well said . That sums up a lot of how I feel about Illume. It's really grown on me. At first I didn't like the melody, and now I do, but ever since the first listen it clicked with me emotionally. It's very intense. I agree with you 100% about the cliffdweller line, and the "I'm alone now" vocal which follows the weird Lindsey whisper part. I also agree about there being too many choruses .

I also agree with SmthngOfADreamr...I totally dig the "trade you for jade" lyric and am not crazy about the "like a river" analogy.

I love this song, but I can see how someone who might not be a fan of newer Stevie stuff might not like it, like Carne.
I feel like this is one of those songs that you have to be really really really into the artist to love, because you are so familiar with that artist's work and love it that you sort of have to take a less "mainstream" sounding (for lack of a better word) song into context. I think there are plenty of Lindsey songs that have that same quality. Dont Look Down, for instance. For someone who's not really a Lindsey fan, hearing that "oh-oh-oh-awww" in the chorus, might sound weird, but for the Lindsey fan, it makes you smile, and is totally thrilling and you just love the sound because it's a classic expression of his style. You have to love it!

What I also love is the range of opinions and tastes on this board.
-Sonia

[gypsysara]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Stevie is a woman in her 50s, who seems quite comfortable in her skin... she's not still suffering from growing pains or some unresolved bruised-ego angst.

With all due respect Johnny (and you know Im a Stevie-nut), I feel she does have unresolved angst to some degree, always will. Its part of what makes Stevie - Stevie. Unresolved loves. Unresolved feelings. Feelings of loves lost. Id hate to see her writing style change so much (if it does), cause I admire her outpouring writing style - like you can see a window into her soul.

I agree though, she is comfortable with who she is in her 50's and she should be proud too (IMO)!

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by gypsysara
With all due respect Johnny (and you know Im a Stevie-nut), I feel she does have unresolved angst to some degree, always will.

I knew that was a dangerous statement to make!
I tried to word it as carefully as possible, but I figured someone might call me on it anyway.

I wholeheartedly agree that Stevie's has some unresolved feelings as far as her love life is concerned... unrequited romances, and relationships that died a painful death. She also has an optimism that love *can* work, however difficult it may be to find. Which is where the subject matter of her songs is born.

But what I was trying to say in my statement, is that i don't think Stevie has any unresolved issues as far as proving herself to anyone. I don't think she has a need anymore to say, "Look at me! Look what I can do!"
She seemed to have those issues in the '80s... when she was practically determined to ruin her health in order to prove that she rocked just as hard as the guys.
But I don't think she has that angst anymore. She seems comfortable in her role now, and that was definitely hard won. I feel she has every right to enjoy her "niche" in rock music's pantheon.
I don't see that as resting on one's laurels, or taking the safe approach... I see that as enjoying what your life has given you, and the fact that you're still alive to do what you love to do best.