"Immortal Beloved"

[David]

I finally got around to seeing this. I had been slightly curious about it for several years, but I felt for a long time that I knew what sort of movie it would be, & so I avoided it for several more years. But I finally gave in -- I guess because I got my NetFlix queue down to a manageable length.

"Immortal Beloved" was exactly what I expected it to be for the last ten years: an abomination of a movie. There's no characterization to speak of, there's no pacing, there's no directorial vision (only bad directorial ideas reminiscent of Grand Guignol), there's no believable motivation shown for any of the conflicts or events in the film, there are no genuinely good performances (although there's a good deal of sniveling & bug-eyed stares), & the music itself is used on the soundtrack in the most embarrassingly programmatic way: matching each big theme to a big "event." It's all so silly & hyped-up ridiculous that I can truly be said to have hated the whole damn thing.

People were actually moved by this muck? It's nothing but a series of climaxes, one on top of another; the movie is worse than operatic because there's nothing but grandiloquent, melodramatic aria after aria. There isn't even any recitative!

A stinking abomination of a film, poorly shot, poorly edited (countless times the reverse angle shots cut to the wrong person talking in a conversation) & as graceless as a . . . well, as a performance of the Ninth Symphony by a high school orchestra.

About thirty minutes into it, I thought maybe the director was pulling our leg.

The only thing I enjoyed was a three-minute scene with the great Barry Humphries as Prince Metternich; I wish Humphries would enlist the aid of his grande-dame alter-ego Dame Edna & make an entire Beethoven movie as a cut-up lampoon--it would have more heart & soul in it than this inadvertent kitschfest with cannons & pistols & tempers going off like firecrackers blowing up in our face.

[strandinthewind]

LOL - lighten up, its just a movie

(just joking)

Sersiouly, I liked it and I liked it alot. I did think it was weak in areas, particularly pacing, but worth watching IMO - esp. the scene where he is in the water as a child and during the Ode to Joy chorus in the background; I thought that image was well done.

But, to each their own

Interestingly, here is a site to the letters:

http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~simonj/lvb/ib.html

Background

Two very important documents were discovered in Beethoven's desk shortly after his death in March 1827. These were the Heiligenstadt Testament and a love letter. The Heiligenstadt Testament was written in 1802 and reflects the turmoil that Beethoven went through during the onset of his deafness. The so-called "Immortal Beloved" letters represent an uncontrolled outburst of passionate feelings, to a person unknown. Ever since their discovery, the identity of the "Immortal Beloved" has been the cause for huge speculation. Crucially, the year, place of composition and the name of the intended recipent were all missing from the letters though fortunately (as described below) the date was written on the letters by Beethoven.
Below, I reproduce the letters in their English translation (taken from Solomon), the history of the speculation as to the identity of the Immortal Beloved, the Solomon solution to the riddle, now generally accepted as being correct, a potted biography of the Immortal Beloved and finally Beethoven's movements during the summer of 1812.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The First Letter

July 6, in the morning

My angel, my all, my very self - Only a few words today and at that with pencil (with yours) - Not till tomorrow will my lodgings be definitely determined upon - what a useless waste of time - Why this deep sorrow when necessity speaks - can our love endure except through sacrifices, through not demanding everything from one another; can you change the fact that you are not wholly mine, I not wholly thine - Oh God, look out into the beauties of nature and comfort your heart with that which must be - Love demands everything and that very justly - thus it is to me with you, and to your with me. But you forget so easily that I must live for me and for you; if we were wholly united you would feel the pain of it as little as I - My journey was a fearful one; I did not reach here until 4 o'clock yesterday morning. Lacking horses the post-coach chose another route, but what an awful one; at the stage before the last I was warned not to travel at night; I was made fearful of a forest, but that only made me the more eager - and I was wrong. The coach must needs break down on the wretched road, a bottomless mud road. Without such postilions as I had with me I should have remained stuck in the road. Esterhazy, traveling the usual road here, had the same fate with eight horses that I had with four - Yet I got some pleasure out of it, as I always do when I successfully overcome difficulties - Now a quick change to things internal from things external. We shall surely see each other soon; moreover, today I cannot share with you the thoughts I have had during these last few days touching my own life - If our hearts were always close together, I would have none of these. My heart is full of so many things to say to you - ah - there are moments when I feel that speech amounts to nothing at all - Cheer up - remain my true, my only treasure, my all as I am yours. The gods must send us the rest, what for us must and shall be -
Your faithful LUDWIG

The Second Letter

Evening, Monday, July 6

You are suffering, my dearest creature - only now have I learned that letters must be posted very early in the morning on Mondays to Thursdays - the only days on which the mail-coach goes from here to K. - You are suffering - Ah, wherever I am, there you are also - I will arrange it with you and me that I can live with you. What a life!!! thus!!! without you - pursued by the goodness of mankind hither and thither - which I as little want to deserve as I deserve it - Humility of man towards man - it pains me - and when I consider myself in relation to the universe, what am I and what is He - whom we call the greatest - and yet - herein lies the divine in man - I weep when I reflect that you will probably not receive the first report from me until Saturday - Much as you love me - I love you more - But do not ever conceal yourself from me - good night - As I am taking the baths I must go to bed - Oh God - so near! so far! Is not our love truly a heavenly structure, and also as firm as the vault of heaven?

The Third Letter

Good morning, on July 7

Though still in bed, my thoughts go out to you, my Immortal Beloved, now and then joyfully, then sadly, waiting to learn whether or not fate will hear us - I can live only wholly with you or not at all - Yes, I am resolved to wander so long away from you until I can fly to your arms and say that I am really at home with you, and can send my soul enwrapped in you into the land of spirits - Yes, unhappily it must be so - You will be the more contained since you know my fidelity to you. No one else can ever possess my heart - never - never - Oh God, why must one be parted from one whom one so loves. And yet my life in V is now a wretched life - Your love makes me at once the happiest and the unhappiest of men - At my age I nedd a steady, quiet life - can that be so in our connection? My angel, I have just been told that the mailcoach goes every day - therefore I must close at once so that you may receive the letter at once - Be calm, only by a clam consideration of our existence can we achieve our purpose to live together - Be calm - love me - today - yesterday - what tearful longings for you - you - you - my life - my all - farewell. Oh continue to love me - never misjudge the most faithful heart of your beloved.
ever thine
ever mine
ever ours

[irishgrl]

I saw the movie many years ago, and I thought it was good, a bit hard to follow sometimes perhaps but I am not a movie critic, I just take it as it comes and do my best to understand the director's point....Im not sure why you hated it so much David, you must have impossibly high expectations for things...

I thought the music was beautiful and for me at least, the movie provided some insight into the trials and tribulations of a talented, tortured man

PS: thanks for posting the letters Jason, they are beautiful.....so full of longing......

[Richard B]

I understand where you're coming from, David. The music was shafted in the film, but nonetheless, it was still Beethoven music. I think this film is a quite a bit of fantasy, but I like the love story in it and the mystery of his 'immortal beloved' during the film (although fiction) did hold my attention.

One particular scene that moved me was when he first sat in front of the piano (for the first time) and layed his head down on it. I love that scene.

I also agree with one of the characters...as common as it sounds, I also love Ode to Joy immensely.

[Red]

I've never seen this, but I want to. Pretty much anything with Gary OLdman is going to have SOME merit because its Gary F*cking Oldman.

[David]

Originally Posted by Red

I've never seen this, but I want to. Pretty much anything with Gary OLdman is going to have SOME merit because its Gary F*cking Oldman.

I like his Dracula/Vlad the best.

[Richard B]

My typing has become alarmingly bad. I find constant typos in my posts. Embarrassing.

[GarboSpeaks!]

I've never seen this, but I want to. Pretty much anything with Gary OLdman is going to have SOME merit because its Gary F*cking Oldman

RED! I was JUST about to post and be like, hello, this movie may have been "eh" but it's my GD husband in it!!!! lmao. I LOOOOOOOOOOOVE Gary Oldman. OK, LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUST after Gary. Worship him, and all that fanatical slightly scary stuff. IB might not have been his best....but who cares, it's GARY-GD-OLDMAN!

Thanks for coming to our make-believe marital bliss, and his acting defense! lmfao.

[Lindsey Jr.]

Originally Posted by GarboSpeaks!

RED! I was JUST about to post and be like, hello, this movie may have been "eh" but it's my GD husband in it!!!! lmao. I LOOOOOOOOOOOVE Gary Oldman. OK, LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUST after Gary. Worship him, and all that fanatical slightly scary stuff. IB might not have been his best....but who cares, it's GARY-GD-OLDMAN!

Thanks for coming to our make-believe marital bliss, and his acting defense! lmfao.

Gary Oldman is one of my favorite actors! Notice the difference in, say, batman begins & Leon... Great performances.

[David]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I saw the movie many years ago, and I thought it was good, a bit hard to follow sometimes perhaps but I am not a movie critic, I just take it as it comes and do my best to understand the director's point....Im not sure why you hated it so much David, you must have impossibly high expectations for things...

It's all so garish & hyperactive it's like a Victorian melodrama mixed with a Mexican TV soap opera. However, it wasn't even enjoyable as camp. It's nothing but a series of climaxes, unfolding one on top of another, & none of them are really any fun. The movie is worse than operatic because there's nothing but grandiloquent aria after aria. After twenty or thirty minutes, I would have killed for a little recitative.

I wanted to know why the film was so goofball bad (it makes the Ken Russell movies play like chamber dramas) so I ran it back with the director's commentary. Bernard Rose sounded earnest in his desire to give the classical-music-phobic public a Beethoven fantasia, with sexy modern, "relevant" pulsations. But listening to him talk -- he's constantly botching details from the historical record: saying Grillparzer delivered the oration at the funeral; claiming the "Emperor" concerto premiere was a bomb; saying the "Moonlight" opening adagio is in cut time, & on & on -- I got the impression he's also fairly obtuse & very disingenuous. He's always rationalizing his campy, hysterical conceptions by vouching for their historical accuracy: he uses the phrase "100 Percent True" at least twenty times in his commentary. Whom is he trying to convince? I know it's unfair to try to glean a director's ability from his commentary, but Rose really comes across as a very ordinary talent: no dramatically good ideas, no keen perceptions, no sense of rhythm (ironic in a movie about Beethoven), no eye.

I was about to liken it to the annual fireworks "spectacular" at the Hollywood Bowl without the stars, but then I remembered the protagonist is actually shown swimming in a sea of them.

[amber]

I always expect camp when Gary Oldman is there. Not a favorite.

[Red]

Originally Posted by David

I like his Dracula/Vlad the best.

Funnt that you site this role because it highlights his abilities so well. There was a LOT of bad acting *cough*Keanu*cough cough*, and some brutal dialogue, but good ol' Gary had me hook, line and sinker and made the movie interesting to watch only because one can only breathlessly await his next scene. I freakin' love this guy!

[Red]

Originally Posted by GarboSpeaks!

RED! I was JUST about to post and be like, hello, this movie may have been "eh" but it's my GD husband in it!!!! lmao. I LOOOOOOOOOOOVE Gary Oldman. OK, LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUST after Gary. Worship him, and all that fanatical slightly scary stuff. IB might not have been his best....but who cares, it's GARY-GD-OLDMAN!

Thanks for coming to our make-believe marital bliss, and his acting defense! lmfao.

I'll always defend your pretend husband. Aren't pretend husbands great?

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Red

Funny that you site this role because it highlights his abilities so well. There was a LOT of bad acting *cough*Keanu*cough cough*, and some brutal dialogue, but good ol' Gary had me hook, line and sinker and made the movie interesting to watch only because one can only breathlessly await his next scene. I freakin' love this guy!

I agree...quite a bid of bad acting in Dracula, especially in the male roles. It is flawed, but I do love the imagery and of course Oldman as Dracula is brilliant. He is the epitome of Dracula. Second of course to Bela Lugosi and third to Leslie Nielsen. Frank Langella and George Hamilton never quite did it for me as Dracula.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by Richard B

My typing has become alarmingly bad. I find constant typos in my posts. Embarrassing.

The Google toolbar has a spell checker. That's what I use - when I remember. It is common to have more typos in email or on a board than you normally would.