Cosar, what happened to your thread?

[seeknpeace]

I'll be around for the get togethers but still not sure about the show. Come on down though. We are going to party! We need to make a ralley point for all the gypsies to meet. Any suggestions?

Well, now, we are in your back yard....but, maybe Kel and Jess would know a good watering hole?

I only did the one AHI with the benefit tickets...I am going el cheapo out the butto...this time. round...

[glitter_fades]

Last time we did Hard Rock. That was before they moved downtown. Now it's right next to the arena, so it's close by. We can have early drinks before the show? It'll be mobbed that night for sure, but we can try to go early so we get a table by that lame Stevie/FM display. I need the laughs.

[flyfirefly]

Re: glitter_fades

Nice. Glad you got a kick out of that.

[Tango]

Originally posted by cosar
Glitter,

I don’t want you or anyone else here to think this board censors people. To paraphrase the opening of a song I know you’re familiar with, “I took my thread, I took it down.” It was causing too much heartache, for me and, it seemed, for everyone else. It was making me too sad.

I have noticed in the short time I’ve been here that a lot of people just avoid the contentious threads and only post in the ones that deal with Fleetwood Mac’s music, concerts, etc. I think I’ve learned my lesson, and I plan to follow their lead.

You say you have learned your lesson, but have you learned the right lesson? You learned to delete and censor from Jonathan, and it's always been acceptable, apparently. But as I look at who is speaking up on this thread, you've deleted and censored the very individuals that are taking action against the wrongs done by the Fleetwood Mac Fans. They originally raised the issues on "the official site" while they had a voice there. They questioned the whole set up of the passwords, asked about the "Pacific Coast start time" for the first presale" and many other issues. They were deleted and banned for not being "happy." Since then, they've written letters, made phone calls, contacted the BBB, The State Attorney General and others. Most importantly, the people YOU censored raised the issues so that other fans could see them.

Cosar, you employed the exact tactic that Jonathan Todd did. You got them to answer your thread, just as he did on "Complaints I and II" and after they took their time to type their grievances out, you summarily deleted them. Do you wonder why you have so much anger coming your direction? Cosar, the fans on Mick's board are still trying to figure out what the issues are! The fans here are way ahead, and are doing something about it. If that makes you unhappy, if that gives you heartache, then stay off those threads.

You pointed a finger at the people of this board and said, "Don't divide the fans." Your very act of censorship has aligned some fans against you. The posts on this site have largely been directed at The Official Fleetwood Mac Fan Club and at Jonathan Todd and the two "official sites" that he sired. Yes, there are people that question the moderators desire to support the site created by a man that does NOT care for the fans at all. I think those are fair questions to be raised. I'm one of them.

You can still post here. But there are those from this board that cannot or in quite a few cases will NOT post there because of the very act of censorship and deletion that you enacted on this board. They will not post there because of what Jonathan Todd did to the fans. cosar, you were wrong to censor. I know you are a fan. I know that. But what you did was wrong.

[glitter_fades]

Originally posted by flyfirefly
Re: glitter_fades

Nice. Glad you got a kick out of that.

If you saw the display they have...P-eeww! You'd laugh too.

They had good Stevie items at their old location but the new place has a sorry display for a hometown girl.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by glitter_fades
What a snag Sodascouts! Must have set you back a few bucks to get those seats. Those benefit shows are pricey. I can never sit close for Stevie or FM anymore here in AZ cuz I can't afford it! I'd have to spend the $$ going out of town for a show to sit close. There's a thought...?...if I go at all.

I'll be around for the get togethers but still not sure about the show. Come on down though. We are going to party! We need to make a ralley point for all the gypsies to meet. Any suggestions?

Oh, it sure did. $1000. But I believe it's worth it. I'm absolutely THRILLED to be going! And it's for charity, not like Mick's lame-o meet and greet crap (or wait, that was JT's idea, right?). Anyway, that's how I justify it to myself.

I'd love to meet up. This is so cool!!!!

[seeknpeace]

Oh, it sure did. $1000. But I believe it's worth it. I'm absolutely THRILLED to be going! And it's for charity, not lot Mick's lame-o crap. That's how I justify it to myself.

Have you ever done the AHI Benefit and after party? Well, see how many drag queens you can pick out..hehe. My purse opened and all my **** feel out on the red carpet going in...just a real Jan moment. sigh..

I do not regret doing the AHI show though. I maybe would do it again, but, I have different expectations now of it. Where is the after party this year?

[glitter_fades]

Yes, it's great that this show is for charity. That might be the only reason I go at all. If I had the money I'd pay the AZ Heart Inst. before I forked out to Mick and the Toad.

I think other ticket proceeds go partly to the fund, not just the donor seats. Hmmm? I'm not sure if this whole show is donated or not? When Stevie does her own show as Stevie and Friends it all goes to charity after bare bones expenses. With Mick calling the shots...I don't know how it goes.

I really want to support the AHI since my brother and father just had heart surgery. They are a great charity and Stevie built their new hospital practically single handedly with the proceeds of her 2000 and 2001 shows.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by seeknpeace
Have you ever done the AHI Benefit and after party? Well, see how many drag queens you can pick out..hehe. My purse opened and all my **** feel out on the red carpet going in...just a real Jan moment. sigh..

I do not regret doing the AHI show though. I maybe would do it again, but, I have different expectations now of it. Where is the after party this year?

Actually, I have (I only saw one drag queen, lol). And I didn't spend all the money with the idea that I would get "close and personal" with that band. Really, that's not terribly important to me. But last year, the concert itself was just such a special experience (and I truly believe it's a worthy cause). I figure by spending the extra money I can have an even better time and help other people besides myself (not that I'm some unselfish benefactor - obviously the FM component motivated my generosity! lol). Anyway, I can't wait to do it again!

[flyfirefly]

Nancy, that's how I tried to think about it when I ended up giving my extra Nashville tickets away to someone outside the venue.

(Thanks for posting the sale though )

[cosar]

With apologies to, and great appreciation for, those who asked me to stay, I’ve concluded that I can’t. I acknowledge that I could have handled my entry to this board quite a bit better than I did. But at this point, I find it too hostile an environment to be comfortable staying. (There’s that darn “C” word again – yes, I admit I prefer that my environment be comfortable.) If I ever come back, it will be under a different name, and then only to discuss FM and their music. And if anyone thinks that’s wrong or deceptive, I guess I really don’t care.

Glitter asked me to address why I stay at Mick’s board and I’ve decided to attempt a brief explanation on my way out. First and foremost, I stay because I have made a number of friends there. I’m not going to abandon them. I enjoy discussing Fleetwood Mac with them, sharing concert experiences, digging out information about the tour, etc. It’s fun – as an internet chat board should be. There are enough places for me to find grief in this world. I organize my internet bookmarks into folders, and my bookmark for Mick’s board (as well as for this board) is in a folder labeled “Entertainment”. It’s not in a folder labeled “Social Justice”.

Second, while I share many of the concerns expressed here about the way Mr. Todd handled (or mishandled) the fan club, the presales, Louise and Pip, and a host of other matters – and there are other regulars at Mick’s board who share these concerns too – I am just unable to reach the same level of outrage about it that some of you exhibit here. If you choose to continue your crusade on the subject, that’s your right. (Although I don’t think it’s your right to endlessly attack those who choose differently.) I reached the conclusion that I was ready to go on with my life.

I do not put the transgressions of Mr. Todd into the category of major social injustice. I know some of you do, but I’m sorry, I just don’t. While I would shed no tears if he were replaced (and as a pure business matter, I even think this would be best for all involved), if he stays, so be it. I am not going to let it consume my life. Or let it diminish my passion for and appreciation of Fleetwood Mac.

I also don’t view Mr. Todd’s injustices as likely to be repeated. I’ll be shocked if the renewal rate for the fan club exceeds the single digits. I know I won’t be renewing. And for those who do choose to renew, that’s their right too.

Finally, I need to make one more observation. I expect I will get flamed for this (well, probably for this whole post), but I’m leaving anyway, so what the heck. For all your talk about free speech, when it comes to the subject of Jonathan Todd, the fan club, Mick’s board and related issues, I think there is very little in the way of free speech going on here. Anyone who expresses a view contrary to the “politically correct” view here on these subjects – or who even expresses the view that maybe there are too many threads dealing with these subjects on the board and that it would be better if we could all just go back to discussing Fleetwood Mac – gets shouted down, swarmed under and/or isolated until they give up. Eventually people don’t even bother to try. This may not be overt censorship, but it’s very effective censorship nonetheless.

So with that, I will now take my leave. I wish you all well.

[gypsysara]

Take care!

[seeknpeace]

Eventually people don’t even bother to try. This may not be overt censorship, but it’s very effective censorship nonetheless.

This is my last response to anything that you have to say Cosar.

You came to this board and started all this mess, flamed it up, removed the thread, talked out of both sides of your mouth, and now you make these lame accusations, AGAIN trying to incite and make issues where none may exist.

I think that we need to try to whittle down the number of threads dealing with this issue, but, not drop it. I am sick of your bs...it makes no sense and it jumps all over the place. Ours do not. We stand firm. We welcomed you here, we listened to your mess, til you went back over there and stabbed us and this community in the back. You called me out by name for something that I did not even do, in the first paragraph of your first post here, along with two of my friends.

So, if you post out the gills again, I will not respond, even though you may say something that makes me upset. That is all that you are about. Is trying to stir it up. We don't have to try. It is stirred up and guess what, we did not create the recipe.

And, as for social injustice, put your head back in the sand with anyone else that wants to. You, like them, will reap any benefits that we hope to get, just like us and if we get none, then only we will pay. But, for me, it is worth it. FOR ME.

Buh Bye.

[Tango]

I agree seeknpeace. The only censoring that has been done has been by cosar. The microphone remains open here. I look over the threads on "the official board" and see the direct clubbing going on by a core group and wonder how can cosar be so blind. How's that old song go, "there is none so blind as he who will not see."

Well, if cosar comes back, as he says, with a new name, that's fine. New slate, carry on old chap, and all that. Just promise he won't ever be selected to be a moderator here !



Bye cosar. See you on the flip side. I wish you well. Seriously.

[gypsysara]

Some Ledgies have strong feelings over one topic or another. IMO all opinions, popular and un popular, are welcome here. We may not agree, we may not see eye-to-eye, but its a public and open forum ~ that's the way it is (thankfully), that's the way it should be.

Sorry you felt some of us were overbearing, opinionated, etc. I myself am a vocal WOMAN, I can see several here are as well (vocal, not necessarily women lol). I do disagree though that we censor buy stating our opinions (the "bully" syndrome). We're just speaking our minds, you know? Just like you state yours. I feel we've all said and proved that we're here to read and respect one anothers opinions.

Again, I wish you well Cosar.