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  #46  
Old 05-12-2020, 01:12 PM
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Have to agree with this. I would give John some of the biggest credit on turning that song into what it became. His bass playing throughout is incredible on Dreams.
John deserves way more credit in general. His playing on Stevie’s songs is genius. “Rhiannon,” “Dreams,” “Gold Dust Woman,” “Sara,” “Angel,” and “Smile At You” come to mind.
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  #47  
Old 05-12-2020, 01:28 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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John deserves way more credit in general. His playing on Stevie’s songs is genius. “Rhiannon,” “Dreams,” “Gold Dust Woman,” “Sara,” “Angel,” and “Smile At You” come to mind.
I 100% agree with this! Look what they (MIck/John) did for Welch, McVie, Kirwan, Nicks, Buckingham, etc etc etc.

After reading Eric Clapton's book a long time ago, I have a HUGE appreciation for what he's done for Stevie. I think she appreciates it too.
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  #48  
Old 05-12-2020, 04:37 PM
jmn3 jmn3 is offline
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I 100% agree with this! Look what they (MIck/John) did for Welch, McVie, Kirwan, Nicks, Buckingham, etc etc etc.

After reading Eric Clapton's book a long time ago, I have a HUGE appreciation for what he's done for Stevie. I think she appreciates it too.
The rhythm section is definitely the MVP of Fleetwood Mac. And John may very well be the band's unsung hero. In addition to the already mentioned great examples...his bass line in Go Your Own Way is amazing. His input makes most of the songs what they are without being done in a way that the casual listener would even realize it. And in concert, I always want that bass line interlude in The Chain to go on for about 10 more bars.
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  #49  
Old 05-13-2020, 12:51 AM
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The rhythm section is definitely the MVP of Fleetwood Mac. And John may very well be the band's unsung hero. In addition to the already mentioned great examples...his bass line in Go Your Own Way is amazing. His input makes most of the songs what they are without being done in a way that the casual listener would even realize it. And in concert, I always want that bass line interlude in The Chain to go on for about 10 more bars.
Since my post, which included the comment about Lindsey's arrangement adding so much to Dreams, this thread has gone in a completely different direction. I was expecting certain people to attack me for saying Stevie is smart to take her time to write songs if she wants decent results. Instead, there have been quite a few worthwhile comments about how different band members contribute so much in their own ways, notably John McVie.

When I watch The Dance DVD it always annoys me now how Lindsey plays over the end of John's bass solo in The Chain. A Ledgie once pointed out that if you watch the Tango in the Night DVD, Billy actually lets John play for a bit longer than Lindsey did and we really get to enjoy the solo in its full glory. I'm not saying this just to Lindsey bash, but he did the same thing when I saw the Rumours 5 live in 2015. Very annoying.

I talked to a bass teacher about Dreams and he said it's quite a simple bassline (in his opinion) but yeah it's just beautiful in its simplicity.

The one bassline that stands out as not good is Gypsy. I watched a documentary where John plays the bass (or a section of it) for that song and it sounded so weird. Yet when he plays it with all the other instruments in the mix it sounds great! Sorry I don't have a link to the doco, it was quite interesting.
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  #50  
Old 05-13-2020, 10:39 PM
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I talked to a bass teacher about Dreams and he said it's quite a simple bassline (in his opinion) but yeah it's just beautiful in its simplicity.
I used to have that argument with drummers about Mick’s parts. These parts from John, Mick, Christine, even Lindsey’s famous one-note solos look easy on paper. If you see them written out on staff, you think anyone could play it. But no one can play it the way they played it, right? Their attack, timbre, dynamic suspense, intonation, great charm, coloration, idiosyncrasies, space — that’s all Fleetwood Mac. Can you hear in your mind’s ear how sometimes in “Dreams” John moves a step up from F to G but with a little hitch or hiccup, like someone taking a quick swallow before finishing his sentence? It helps propel “Dreams” forward and makes those four-and-a-half minutes sound like just the perfect length of time (how many times have you heard the Nicks solo bands play it and it dragged interminably?). There isn’t a tribute band anywhere that can adequately duplicate the Fleetwood Mac style, despite the fact that these musicians are not the music world’s virtuosos. If you don’t put enormous personality into your playing, it’s irrelevant how advanced your technique might be. It’s just motor skills in that case.
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  #51  
Old 05-14-2020, 08:51 AM
DashingDan DashingDan is offline
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Totally true. It's the simple sophistication of FM that is their secret weapon. Another example, somehow, Mick can turn two eighth note snare hits on the 'four - and' into a vital drum fill.

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I used to have that argument with drummers about Mick’s parts. These parts from John, Mick, Christine, even Lindsey’s famous one-note solos look easy on paper. If you see them written out on staff, you think anyone could play it. But no one can play it the way they played it, right? Their attack, timbre, dynamic suspense, intonation, great charm, coloration, idiosyncrasies, space — that’s all Fleetwood Mac. Can you hear in your mind’s ear how sometimes in “Dreams” John moves a step up from F to G but with a little hitch or hiccup, like someone taking a quick swallow before finishing his sentence? It helps propel “Dreams” forward and makes those four-and-a-half minutes sound like just the perfect length of time (how many times have you heard the Nicks solo bands play it and it dragged interminably?). There isn’t a tribute band anywhere that can adequately duplicate the Fleetwood Mac style, despite the fact that these musicians are not the music world’s virtuosos. If you don’t put enormous personality into your playing, it’s irrelevant how advanced your technique might be. It’s just motor skills in that case.
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  #52  
Old 05-14-2020, 02:32 PM
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(how many times have you heard the Nicks solo bands play it and it dragged interminably?).
Same can be said with Lindsey’s solo bands and Christine’s solo band on their Fleetwood Mac songs.
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  #53  
Old 05-18-2020, 11:45 AM
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Same can be said with Lindsey’s solo bands and Christine’s solo band on their Fleetwood Mac songs.
I never saw him in person but I rather like the snappy way his team played songs like “Second Hand News” and “I Know I’m Not Wrong” on those concert Blu-rays. Christine’s 1984 tour, which I did see, I could live without. Nothing terribly interesting to my ear in that.
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  #54  
Old 05-18-2020, 01:03 PM
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I never saw him in person but
In the immortal words of Rob Thomas, this is how a heart breaks.
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  #55  
Old 05-18-2020, 11:00 PM
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I never saw him in person but I rather like the snappy way his team played songs like “Second Hand News” and “I Know I’m Not Wrong” on those concert Blu-rays. Christine’s 1984 tour, which I did see, I could live without. Nothing terribly interesting to my ear in that.
I caught him opening for Tina Turner. I’d never seen him before (I was 8 when “Mirage” was out) and really loved the show. Great though it was, it wasn’t Fleetwood Mac.

For me, Fleetwood Mac without Lindsey, Stevie, or Christine still sounds more like Fleetwood Mac to me than Stevie, Lindsey, and/or Christine solo/extracurricular duo, and I suspect a lot of that is because of John. George Hawkins, Federico Pol, Bob Glaub, et.al. don’t come close.
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Old 05-18-2020, 11:37 PM
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