price drops already! (and only presales)

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Knock off the sexist and misogyny bullcrap already.

I don't think anyone here takes aim at Stevie because she is a woman.
And I certainly would never rejoice in any violence against her or Carol or anyone else. THOSE AREN'T THE ISSUES IN THIS CURRENT TIME.

There are a lot of issues here to be angry about. Calling someone sexist or racist is a HUGE accusation to make and it won't be tolerated here. We don't know each other well enough to make those assumptions.

If you feel that way about someone being racist, sexist, homophobic etc... take it up with me, Giulia or Michele. Bring evidence... and not just.. he called her a goat.. All 5 members have been raked over here.

I will leave my public opinion on Stevie and Mick's behavior aside for the moment to say that there's no room on this board for any of that bullcrap. We've known each other for a long time. (most of us)

Find a different argument on BOTH SIDES OF THE COIN.

Ok... Peace to all of you... Keep the debates rolling....

I didn't call anyone specific a misogynist. I do see a lot of misogyny here in general. That's exactly what I said. And the fact that here you are so quickly shows me which side the bread is buttered on. I've been called all kinds of things and in a post upthread was threatened with permanent banning but that's okay. Don't worry I'm out. Go ahead and finish running this place into the ground. Lindsey has an army now so why not make it a crusade. I think it''s hilarious and highly ironic that you're a man who thinks sexism and misogyny is "bullcrap." That's because you've never been on the receiving end of it. It's not my job to bring evidence for you. It's not even hard to find. As far as knowing each other for a long time you've just admitted to giving your friends a pass. I've been around for almost 20 years too. What I'm trying to tell you is a large chunk of the fan community has been run off by this but no one wants to say it because of that very clique mentality and favoritism I mentioned previously. I'm going to duck out now so that you and the boys can smoke some cigars and dance around singing ding dong the witch is dead. Which witch is up to you. Once this brouhaha has passed it's going to be the same five people saying the same old sh!t and their friends telling them how funny and right they are. Fleetwood Mac is dead. Long live Fleetwood Mac.

[Buster]

Gldstwmn, I completely agree with you about misogyny on the board and have called it out before. It is the primary reason I barely participate in discussions even though I was initially excited to join the board.

There are a lot of comments about Stevie that are based on her appearance and weight along with insulting names (such as hag). None of these comments are necessary. It is fine not to like her but adults should be able to express their dislike by discussing specific behavior and by using adult words. Resorting to nasty comments about appearance and using words like hag is age-old behavior by men to take down women, period. That behavior is not considered acceptable in most environments and shouldn’t be acceptable here.

The result is that nearly every thread is dominated by a couple of men, one of whom can’t seem to let any comment by anyone go by without a response. It is little wonder why there is so little participation and traction on this board.

I find it interesting that the immediate response by some is to insist there is no misogyny instead of stepping back for a minute and reflecting.

It’s fine at some level for the owner to say that negative comments about band members are fair game, but she should take some sort of stand against misogynistic behavior. Otherwise she is saying that such behavior is acceptable and I find that to be quite sad.

[mitzo]

Originally Posted by Buster

Gldstwmn, I completely agree with you about misogyny on the board and have called it out before. It is the primary reason I barely participate in discussions even though I was initially excited to join the board.

There are a lot of comments about Stevie that are based on her appearance and weight along with insulting names (such as hag). None of these comments are necessary. It is fine not to like her but adults should be able to express their dislike by discussing specific behavior and by using adult words. Resorting to nasty comments about appearance and using words like hag is age-old behavior by men to take down women, period. That behavior is not considered acceptable in most environments and shouldn’t be acceptable here.

The result is that nearly every thread is dominated by a couple of men, one of whom can’t seem to let any comment by anyone go by without a response. It is little wonder why there is so little participation and traction on this board.

I find it interesting that the immediate response by some is to insist there is no misogyny instead of stepping back for a minute and reflecting.

It’s fine at some level for the owner to say that negative comments about band members are fair game, but she should take some sort of stand against misogynistic behavior. Otherwise she is saying that such behavior is acceptable and I find that to be quite sad.

Yup, all the above. There is a lot of anger on these boards from people male and female who dominate most threads. Trashy stuff, mostly, but also way out of line at times.

Some FM fans and especially those of some of its former members really are scary.

[AncientQueen]

Originally Posted by Buster

Gldstwmn, I completely agree with you about misogyny on the board and have called it out before. It is the primary reason I barely participate in discussions even though I was initially excited to join the board. Resorting to nasty comments about appearance and using words like hag is age-old behavior by men to take down women, period. That behavior is not considered acceptable in most environments and shouldn’t be acceptable here.

The result is that nearly every thread is dominated by a couple of men, one of whom can’t seem to let any comment by anyone go by without a response. It is little wonder why there is so little participation and traction on this board.

I find it interesting that the immediate response by some is to insist there is no misogyny instead of stepping back for a minute and reflecting.

It’s fine at some level for the owner to say that negative comments about band members are fair game, but she should take some sort of stand against misogynistic behavior. Otherwise she is saying that such behavior is acceptable and I find that to be quite sad.

So you are criticizing the female owner of this site about how she handles misogynistic behaviour?
Exactly my humor.

I stepped back and reflected the 15 years I'm posting here more or less frequent. IMHO misogynistic behaviour is not common. It happens, but is usually not tolerated between members, other members will step up to put the aggressor in his place.

I'm a woman and I barely manage to not insult Stevie right now, but if, I wouldn't because of her appearance, age or gender, only because of her (*=%&*) character.

And, while you may find that sad, I feel that Stevie herself opened this can of worms by her (sorry, but: unacceptable, infuriating, selfish, delusial) behaviour over the last years. It's not right to insult her appeareance, but it is so tempting, given how she acts of lately, how she seemingly became an ugly person inside. And Stevie herself has always been the one to focus all attention to her looks, everything she does inhabits the element of her being exceptional beautiful. If you look around here, you'll find alot less comments in that regard about Christine, because she does not focus on her appeareance at all, so noone else will. I'm not saying that makes bashing Stevie for her looks okay, I'm merely explaining a possible reason for it.
Because people here are upset, angry and (yes, even) hurt by the recent development, they deal with it in different ways. It may be not nice or pretty, but the current situation is not nice or pretty either.

[ryan4136]

These accusations are just a redirect to change focus from the dirty deed done

[Dr.Brown]

Originally Posted by ryan4136

These accusations are just a redirect to change focus from the dirty deed done

Agreed, and the comments are no longer focused on the band but on issues of semantics that would probably be more fitting under the Hot Topics thread.

BTW, I have no hesitation in calling Mi¢k a money-grubbing bastard. I think $tevie was the catalyst and he was all too happy to go along as long as it kept the gravy train rolling.

I think John and Christine are there out of loyalty to Mi¢k but I am disappointed they didn't have the decency to realize the band really should just call it a day at this point. I predict one or the other will do so by the end of the new lineup's tour.
.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I didn't call anyone specific a misogynist. I do see a lot of misogyny here in general. That's exactly what I said. And the fact that here you are so quickly shows me which side the bread is buttered on. I've been called all kinds of things and in a post upthread was threatened with permanent banning but that's okay. Don't worry I'm out. Go ahead and finish running this place into the ground. Lindsey has an army now so why not make it a crusade. I think it''s hilarious and highly ironic that you're a man who thinks sexism and misogyny is "bullcrap." That's because you've never been on the receiving end of it. It's not my job to bring evidence for you. It's not even hard to find. As far as knowing each other for a long time you've just admitted to giving your friends a pass. I've been around for almost 20 years too. What I'm trying to tell you is a large chunk of the fan community has been run off by this but no one wants to say it because of that very clique mentality and favoritism I mentioned previously. I'm going to duck out now so that you and the boys can smoke some cigars and dance around singing ding dong the witch is dead. Which witch is up to you. Once this brouhaha has passed it's going to be the same five people saying the same old sh!t and their friends telling them how funny and right they are. Fleetwood Mac is dead. Long live Fleetwood Mac.

First off, I'm gay and don't smoke cigars. Secondly, I've been in an abusive relationship on the receiving end of a man's fist. However, I'm not going to play the victim of it on a Fleetwood Mac forum where people are angry about this member or that member. This is not up for discussion in this forum.

You are free to get mad and leave. Nobody is stopping you. But, I won't allow you to make it worse for actual victims of abuse by conveniently spouting off about sexism and misogyny in a Fleetwood Mac forum where you are using it to push your agenda. And that's exactly what you are doing here. I'll say it one more time. You don't know the other members here well enough to make those assumptions. Stick to talking Fleetwood Mac or leave. You've been a respected member here for a long time. But this doesn't fly.

[secondhandchain]

Originally Posted by Buster

Gldstwmn, I completely agree with you about misogyny on the board and have called it out before. It is the primary reason I barely participate in discussions even though I was initially excited to join the board.

There are a lot of comments about Stevie that are based on her appearance and weight along with insulting names (such as hag). None of these comments are necessary. It is fine not to like her but adults should be able to express their dislike by discussing specific behavior and by using adult words. Resorting to nasty comments about appearance and using words like hag is age-old behavior by men to take down women, period. That behavior is not considered acceptable in most environments and shouldn’t be acceptable here.

The result is that nearly every thread is dominated by a couple of men, one of whom can’t seem to let any comment by anyone go by without a response. It is little wonder why there is so little participation and traction on this board.

I find it interesting that the immediate response by some is to insist there is no misogyny instead of stepping back for a minute and reflecting.

It’s fine at some level for the owner to say that negative comments about band members are fair game, but she should take some sort of stand against misogynistic behavior. Otherwise she is saying that such behavior is acceptable and I find that to be quite sad.

Meanwhile we call Mick an old greedy, huckster. It has NOTHING, ZERO, zero, 0.0 to do with her being a woman. How many times can we say it. It is about her AND MICK'S behavior. PERIOD.

[Feather Blade]

Gldstwmn, please reconsider leaving. Enough people have given up on this board as it is. If it dwindles down to the same few people back slapping each other over who can come up with the nastiest comment, it will be well and truly dead. Nobody should feel not welcome to share their own thoughts and opinions on whatever side of an issue they fall on. You are part of this community, don't let anyone run you away!

[Missy]

I normally don't post and looks like I'm heading off again. Ty to those however in the Post Rumours forum I had some interesting conversation with lately. I appreciate the talents of everyone in this band and what they gave us, even if at times under difficult circumstances.

They've tried to keep going as an act after tormented breakups. Stevie has an ego sure. Lindsey has a huge ego as well and since Rumours has tried to control the direction of the group, with middling results. He's such a brilliant guitarist but apart from two or three songs I've never really been into what he does. Maybe that makes me not a true FM fan, but there are folks who still miss Peter Green and preferred his playing. If LB is only one you like there is his solo career he can pursue.

These five had unique chemistry and still do live in concert, but out of that context once the show is over 'the thrill is gone' and I don't think it's just attitudes. It's just how life is.

Christine brought back some momentum with her return but now they seem back in a rut without strong new material. All five in the studio trying to do something new however might have just been detrimental to the balance of the group, which is delicate anyway - as with many former couples, the best you can sometimes hope for is to be civil but it's never gonna be really the same as it was before.

It's well known how temperamental and controlling Lindsey can be. He may keep it in check with Christine but they can't carry everything and reviews/reception of their work and performances together have been mixed. Which suggests that they're not the only driving talent and drawcard in this band.

These are older people now. All in or pushing their 70s but trying to still rock like they did when new groups weren't born yet. I have feeling maybe they should have just shut down everything. But I expect the upcoming tour will still be high performing standard.

They can still do it, but have to work around a few limitations nowadays. As for SN no longer interacting with audiences. Yeah I've noticed. She has poor vision. Christine said how she helps lead her off stage because she can't see well. To avoid risk of injury I think Stevie is more careful where and how she moves, while she puts more focus on other aspects of the performance. It's a shame but getting hurt would just screw up everything.

I have to say I see things here and if I didn't know better I'd think I was on a haters site, not a fan site? I can take constructive criticism or assessment. But don't know the need for posts that are just name calling and innuendo.

Nothing lasts forever but grateful for the recordings and memories of the era. Okay cutting it now, rant over, see yas and take care.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Missy

I have to say I see things here and if I didn't know better I'd think I was on a haters site, not a fan site?

You sure have that right!

Good post, thanks.

[Missy]

Originally Posted by Nathan

You sure have that right!

Good post, thanks.

So I'm not the only one? Lol.

Ty and I think I'll wait for some more promos or publicity for this tour. Then see where things are at.

[MoonSister75]

Originally Posted by Missy

So I'm not the only one? Lol.

Ty and I think I'll wait for some more promos or publicity for this tour. Then see where things are at.

No, you are definitely not the only one.

Originally Posted by Feather Blade

If it dwindles down to the same few people back slapping each other over who can come up with the nastiest comment, it will be well and truly dead.

This is the crux of the problem. A few people are posting way more often than other members, so their narrative becomes the dominant one, and it's a particularly negative, nasty one. I'm baffled as to why some people get so much enjoyment out of denigrating others, but that's the way of the world it seems. There are so many other points of view that get drowned out on here. It's a real shame how ugly this site is much of the time.

I didn't come here for months until I saw the news of Lindsey being fired, which I read on a music magazine website. So I came back to find that nothing much has changed in terms of the conversation and dominant voices. It's sad that things can't change, but I really do appreciate all the other voices trying to cut through the noise, and offer something different, with interesting and positive things to say.

[Dr.Brown]

Originally Posted by MoonSister75

It's a real shame how ugly this site is much of the time.

Despite Mick's reluctance to use the word, something 'ugly' did indeed happen, destroying the Rumours lineup just at the twilight of this band's existence. One would expect that those posting in the Rumours forum would be very upset about the apparent duplicity and backstabbing that took place. It's a real shame how 'ugly' this band has become.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Dr.Brown

Despite Mick's reluctance to use the word, something 'ugly' did indeed happen, destroying the Rumours lineup just at the twilight of this band's existence. One would expect that those posting in the Rumours forum would be very upset about the apparent duplicity and backstabbing that took place. It's a real shame how 'ugly' this band has become.

Oh come on...

Backstabbing?

It’s not like Lindsey was happy in the band anymore. Yes, he was counting on it, but it’s not like Fleetwood Mac was something he was really passionate about doing. Not after LBCM. There were disagreements over setlists, his lack of enthusiasm at Classic West matched his grab the money and run comment, and he was planning a concurrent tour. I can’t think of any other band where that would fly, and I won’t hold Fleetwood Mac to a different standard.

Can you seriously tell me that he looks happy in this picture?

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