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  #1  
Old 12-18-2018, 10:15 PM
cbBen cbBen is offline
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Default Needham vs. Lord-Alge / SYW

For all the back and forth in Destiny Rules over who would mix the album, to my ear Lord-Alge ("Destiny Rules") and Needham (everything else) are not particularly distinguishable from one another. "Destiny Rules" is generally mixed like the rest of the songs.

What does everyone else think?

Three other things:

1. This is a great album.
2. Boy did they pick the wrong songs for singles, and the wrong song for the title track.
3. Notwithstanding Lindsey's claim that starting with Mirage they wouldn't let him experiment, he sure does a lot of it here and on Tango.
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  #2  
Old 12-18-2018, 10:38 PM
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elle elle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbBen View Post
For all the back and forth in Destiny Rules over who would mix the album, to my ear Lord-Alge ("Destiny Rules") and Needham (everything else) are not particularly distinguishable from one another. "Destiny Rules" is generally mixed like the rest of the songs.

What does everyone else think?

Three other things:

1. This is a great album.
2. Boy did they pick the wrong songs for singles, and the wrong song for the title track.
3. Notwithstanding Lindsey's claim that starting with Mirage they wouldn't let him experiment, he sure does a lot of it here and on Tango.
Lindsey should have released his songs as original Gift of Screws, as intended. that amazing collection of songs is watered down by being sprinkled over several projects, with not all songs even being out yet. original GOS was a near masterpiece.
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  #3  
Old 12-18-2018, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by elle View Post
Lindsey should have released his songs as original Gift of Screws, as intended. that amazing collection of songs is watered down by being sprinkled over several projects, with not all songs even being out yet. original GOS was a near masterpiece.
Yes--his gift (to us) got screwed (by Stevie and Mick).
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  #4  
Old 12-19-2018, 08:59 AM
Storms123 Storms123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbBen View Post
For all the back and forth in Destiny Rules over who would mix the album, to my ear Lord-Alge ("Destiny Rules") and Needham (everything else) are not particularly distinguishable from one another. "Destiny Rules" is generally mixed like the rest of the songs.

What does everyone else think?

Three other things:

1. This is a great album.
2. Boy did they pick the wrong songs for singles, and the wrong song for the title track.
3. Notwithstanding Lindsey's claim that starting with Mirage they wouldn't let him experiment, he sure does a lot of it here and on Tango.

I agree this is a great album, I do think SYW was a great title track. I know much has been made about "friction" during this one, and people say it was apparent in the DR documentary. I don't see it at all--I actually think they all appear to be getting along great--yes I am sure some things were scrapped for the cutting room floor, but I just don't see the drama, save for the one conversation with L,S,K.
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  #5  
Old 12-19-2018, 09:36 AM
Ulpian Ulpian is offline
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Originally Posted by Storms123 View Post
I agree this is a great album, I do think SYW was a great title track. I know much has been made about "friction" during this one, and people say it was apparent in the DR documentary. I don't see it at all--I actually think they all appear to be getting along great--yes I am sure some things were scrapped for the cutting room floor, but I just don't see the drama, save for the one conversation with L,S,K.
The lack of Christine really killed it for me. That said, fifteen or so years on, there are a handful of tracks I think are worthy: Destiny Rules, Thrown Down, BTLH, SYHA and Say Goodbye.
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  #6  
Old 12-19-2018, 09:49 AM
secret love secret love is offline
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Originally Posted by Ulpian View Post
The lack of Christine really killed it for me. That said, fifteen or so years on, there are a handful of tracks I think are worthy: Destiny Rules, Thrown Down, BTLH, SYHA and Say Goodbye.
It is funny you know, so many people say Say You Will needed more Christine, but no one ever says Buckingham/McVie needed more Stevie.

Hm, I wonder why?

They should be playing Thrown Down on the current tour. They could spin it as being about Lindsey's departure. Thrown Down by the woman he brought into the band. Could even dedicate it to Lindsey.
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  #7  
Old 12-19-2018, 10:13 AM
Feather Blade Feather Blade is offline
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Originally Posted by secret love View Post
It is funny you know, so many people say Say You Will needed more Christine, but no one ever says Buckingham/McVie needed more Stevie.

Hm, I wonder why?

They should be playing Thrown Down on the current tour. They could spin it as being about Lindsey's departure. Thrown Down by the woman he brought into the band. Could even dedicate it to Lindsey.
Actually people have said it could have used Stevie. "I could hear just where Stevie's voice should have been on this track" etc. Oh well, wasn't meant to be. I could have used more Christine to be honest. I felt like she was terribly underutilized on many tracks.
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  #8  
Old 12-19-2018, 11:17 AM
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CbBen, what song would you pick as the title track (assuming the title had to be one of the tracks)?

I like their choice of Say You Will but I haven't given others much thought. This could be a good poll idea.
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  #9  
Old 12-19-2018, 11:24 AM
cbBen cbBen is offline
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Originally Posted by DownOnRodeo View Post
CbBen, what song would you pick as the title track (assuming the title had to be one of the tracks)?

I like their choice of Say You Will but I haven't given others much thought. This could be a good poll idea.
"Destiny Rules"
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  #10  
Old 12-19-2018, 01:16 PM
AncientQueen AncientQueen is offline
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Originally Posted by secret love View Post
It is funny you know, so many people say Say You Will needed more Christine, but no one ever says Buckingham/McVie needed more Stevie.
Hm, I wonder why?
Personally, I missed Christine so very much on SYW, but not only her playing, singing, or her melodic songs brightening the mood. I missed all of that, but much more. Without her, noone hold the egos of Stevie and Lindsey in check, noone dared to tell them when an idea was just not good enough, a song too long, lyrics too stupid or too mean. Noone filled the harmonies, or even considered giving the record a wholesome sound and atmoshere. Instead, we got two solo albums mixed together. I couldn't listen to the album without thinking: "How good would that have been with Christine on board, bringing out the best in both of them", because the album suffers from the fact that Lindsey and Stevie tend to bring out the worst in each other. There are some good songs on SYW, but they are mostly solo songs with a great rhythm section.

On Buckingham/McVie all the elements I missed on SYW are there. That album is testament of what Christine McVie did for FM without ever getting the recognition she deserved. You can hear that Lindsey respects ther, they both value the other one's contributions, you hear the good time they had in the Studio, with Mick and John. That gives the record a calm, friendly feeling, the opposite of the rather aggressive vibe that SVW gave me. It's just a beautifully done coherent album.
I only kinda missed some Stevie background-singing goodies, her voice is so interesting when used to highlight or accentuate the other two's songs. But as a songwriter, Stevie has not moved me for decades, her demo vaults must be totally empty by now. I wasn't expecting anything good from her anyway. I do understand why she didn't want to participate, she knew that both Chris and Lindsey would have crushed her with their talent, their compositions, Stevie couldn't let that happen.

Last edited by AncientQueen; 12-19-2018 at 01:21 PM..
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  #11  
Old 12-19-2018, 01:55 PM
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I do understand why she didn't want to participate, she knew that both Chris and Lindsey would have crushed her with their talent, their compositions, Stevie couldn't let that happen.
This is a very good point. I always struggled with WHY Stevie is avoiding them and the whole recording thing, never really sat down and thought it through, but this makes perfect sense.
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  #12  
Old 12-19-2018, 02:03 PM
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It could also be as simple as her standing to earn more money on the road than in the studio.
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  #13  
Old 12-19-2018, 02:04 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Originally Posted by AncientQueen View Post
Personally, I missed Christine so very much on SYW, but not only her playing, singing, or her melodic songs brightening the mood. I missed all of that, but much more. Without her, noone hold the egos of Stevie and Lindsey in check, noone dared to tell them when an idea was just not good enough, a song too long, lyrics too stupid or too mean. Noone filled the harmonies, or even considered giving the record a wholesome sound and atmoshere. Instead, we got two solo albums mixed together. I couldn't listen to the album without thinking: "How good would that have been with Christine on board, bringing out the best in both of them", because the album suffers from the fact that Lindsey and Stevie tend to bring out the worst in each other. There are some good songs on SYW, but they are mostly solo songs with a great rhythm section.

On Buckingham/McVie all the elements I missed on SYW are there. That album is testament of what Christine McVie did for FM without ever getting the recognition she deserved. You can hear that Lindsey respects ther, they both value the other one's contributions, you hear the good time they had in the Studio, with Mick and John. That gives the record a calm, friendly feeling, the opposite of the rather aggressive vibe that SVW gave me. It's just a beautifully done coherent album.
I only kinda missed some Stevie background-singing goodies, her voice is so interesting when used to highlight or accentuate the other two's songs. But as a songwriter, Stevie has not moved me for decades, her demo vaults must be totally empty by now. I wasn't expecting anything good from her anyway. I do understand why she didn't want to participate, she knew that both Chris and Lindsey would have crushed her with their talent, their compositions, Stevie couldn't let that happen.

She's a true artist without having to talk about what an amazing diva or genius she is. That's what I love about the core of FMac. They do vs. talk.
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  #14  
Old 12-19-2018, 03:00 PM
secondhandchain secondhandchain is offline
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Originally Posted by lovethemac1 View Post
This is a very good point. I always struggled with WHY Stevie is avoiding them and the whole recording thing, never really sat down and thought it through, but this makes perfect sense.
She could have pulled 3 of those songs from the 24 Karat collection. Who cares if they weren't new. They weren't heard before by most people. Hell, lots of tracks on FM albums were songs she had written years before.
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  #15  
Old 12-19-2018, 03:09 PM
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She could have pulled 3 of those songs from the 24 Karat collection. Who cares if they weren't new. They weren't heard before by most people. Hell, lots of tracks on FM albums were songs she had written years before.
I agree with you 100%, but she would care if she didn't look capable of writing anything new, ESP in front of Lindsey and to some degree Chris. I really believe that. She's sooooo concerned about her image 24/7.
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