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  #16  
Old 05-12-2019, 03:37 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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Originally Posted by vivfox View Post
It's refreshing to hear you say this cause I always thought you were a fan of everything he did, except the whispering vocals, of course.
That’s odd, because I only claim to be a fan of 2/3 of the stuff he writes. But I consider him a great producer, artist, musician and screamer and that's all I need.

Last edited by michelej1; 05-17-2019 at 11:00 AM.. Reason: Got my fractions and meaning all mixed up
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  #17  
Old 05-14-2019, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
Thatís odd, because I donít even claim to be a fan of 1/3 of the stuff he writes. But I consider him a great producer, artist, musician and screamer and that's all I need.
That's about where I'm at with him too. I also question a fair number of his producing efforts but when he gets it right he REALLY gets it right. I also appreciate he's willing to take risks with the songs he produces. For example, I may not prefer his 2003 version of "Smile at You" but it's unique as hell and I'm glad it exists.
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"I am just one small part of forever" -Think About It (The song that got me into Stevie Nicks)

"The face of a pretty girl x1,000,000" -Isn't It Midnight (The song that got me into Christine McVie)

"The sun is bright, but not too bright to see. When the darkness comes you've got to fly into the light." -Doing What I Can (The song that got me into Lindsey Buckingham)

"I can still hear you saying you would never break the chain" -The Chain (The song that got me into Fleetwood Mac)
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  #18  
Old 05-15-2019, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
Thatís odd, because I donít even claim to be a fan of 1/3 of the stuff he writes. But I consider him a great producer, artist, musician and screamer and that's all I need.
I find myself really intrigued and satisfied with his solo work. LAW AND ORDER, OUT OF THE CRADLE, GIFT OF SCREWS, plus the tune "Go Insane"...these projects capture my interest far more than the bulk of his FM work. The only Mac-related songs he's done that genuinely excite me are the song "Tusk," "World Turning," "The Chain," "GYOW," "Red Rover," and "Say Goodbye." You can count the BuckVie song "OWTS"--which IS a Mac song.

There are plenty of his Mac songs that I admire--"Big Love," "Eyes of the World," etc., etc.. But I don't hunger for them. I only listen to them when I have the album on.
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  #19  
Old 05-15-2019, 01:31 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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I also think the album Out of the Cradle, Gift of Screws and Seeds We Sow are the albums for me. I like Go Insane too. Law and Order and Under the Skin are lowest on my scale.

But I enjoy a lot of his FM output. It's just that when I get an album, I'm not judging his input based primarily on the songs he has on it. Not too worried about the Popeye problem, as serious as it may be.
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  #20  
Old 05-15-2019, 02:54 PM
bombaysaffires bombaysaffires is offline
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
I also think the album Out of the Cradle, Gift of Screws and Seeds We Sow are the albums for me. I like Go Insane too. Law and Order and Under the Skin are lowest on my scale.

But I enjoy a lot of his FM output. It's just that when I get an album, I'm not judging his input based primarily on the songs he has on it. Not too worried about the Popeye problem, as serious as it may be.
Definitely my top two.
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  #21  
Old 05-15-2019, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
I think it’s possible to be a Lindsey fan and not appreciate all kinds of stuff, even Tusk. I happen to like Say You Will, but he’s done lots of things that I don’t “get” or I once got, but then got way over it. Luckily, he has given us a lot of variety to pick and choose from.
His variety is amazing. Even within a single album, you can jump from genre to genre, or from attitude to attitude (it's the real charm of Law and Order).

His music philosophy is also close to my heart: the way he's compelled to labor over every track with the firm conviction that even subtle variations in formal characteristics (like sonics or effects) make listeners feel different. There are other people like that in rock, but the mainstream rock approach is just the opposite: set up your equipment, power through something, and record it transparently. It's fine—that approach has its place in music. But there's also the equally valid Lindsey Buckingham approach. It's for him as much as for us. He learns something new about his own tendencies and skills when he spends weeks on the back-and-forth experimentation on a single track. "I like what I just did, but what if I try it this way, irrespective of what we ultimately plan to do with the track?" It's a critique of the more superficial, immediate method, where you don't spend days tweaking barely noticeable rhythm guitar lines or workstation effects because it isn't "cool."

Yes, there's stuff of his that sounds labored right off the bat, but some of Lindsey's most lasting work is the sort that sounds more superficial, yet reveals its thought complexities over time. We've mentioned a lot of those elements on the Ledge, like the reference to the old Max Steiner movie music in You Do or You Don't, or the way the motif of Stephanie is drawn out and used foundationally in Eyes of the World to support a track that's both boppy and desperate. We could have a million conversations about track choices and ideas in Lindsey's work, but imagine having even one such conversation about Stevie's. Stripped of her vocals and lyrics, those tracks would mean nothing to anyone.
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  #22  
Old 05-15-2019, 05:43 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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We could have a million conversations about track choices and ideas in Lindsey's work, but imagine having even one such conversation about Stevie's. Stripped of her vocals and lyrics, those tracks would mean nothing to anyone.
But you could have a very similar discussion about Stevie's vocals and lyrics. I am struck at how differently she can make me feel by changing tone and inflection in her voice or by varying a lyric. Did the lyric change message evolution, devolution, fear, regret? And that has an impact on whether I think the song is inspiring, empowering, or sad. I can reflect on those changes, just like I analyze the differences in one version of My Little Demon from the other.

You talked about the triumph of Lindsey debuting the new arrangements of Big Love (and Go Insane) for his solo show. I wish he'd done more of that. We have outtakes here and there, with Gift of Screws and with the FM album releases we have gotten. But we haven't had the chance to track transformations in his solo work as much as I would like, because they would reveal, what I would like to perceive as, the transformations in him.
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  #23  
Old 05-17-2019, 10:46 AM
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Lindsey doesn't hit it out of the park every time, but who does? As has been said earlier, when he gets it right, he gets it very right.

And he feeds us all. For people like me, there's the more "normal" stuff; for other folks, there's the stuff he's produced the heck out of until most of it sounds completely unnatural.
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  #24  
Old 05-17-2019, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
You talked about the triumph of Lindsey debuting the new arrangements of Big Love (and Go Insane) for his solo show. I wish he'd done more of that. We have outtakes here and there, with Gift of Screws and with the FM album releases we have gotten. But we haven't had the chance to track transformations in his solo work as much as I would like, because they would reveal, what I would like to perceive as, the transformations in him.
I don't think this is quite what you're talking about, but it reminded me: I don't know this for certain, but I have to imagine that even the Dance version of Say You Love Me was primarily his engineering. I loved how that came off, and that's what I always wished the band would do when they went out on these tours with no new material to support. If you're going to trot out the old catalogue, sure, give us a few in their unadulterated form, but throw in a few curveballs too. Recreate the AHI acoustic "Gypsy" with a guitar tech and John on acoustic bass.

The Dance originally being planned as an MTV Unplugged seemed to force the band to try new things, a few of which made it to the surface. Unfortunately, it never really happened again. But Lindsey's done this a few times: Trouble, Big Love, Go Insane... you could even make the argument he does it with Never Going Back Again in a strange way. Go back and watch them perform it on "Live in Boston" vs. what he was doing at later Mac/solo shows. Quite a transformation.
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  #25  
Old 05-17-2019, 06:03 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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Originally Posted by jeets2000 View Post
I don't think this is quite what you're talking about, but it reminded me: I don't know this for certain, but I have to imagine that even the Dance version of Say You Love Me was primarily his engineering. I loved how that came off, and that's what I always wished the band would do when they went out on these tours with no new material to support. If you're going to trot out the old catalogue, sure, give us a few in their unadulterated form, but throw in a few curveballs too. Recreate the AHI acoustic "Gypsy" with a guitar tech and John on acoustic bass.
Ahhh. That AHI Gypsy was wonderful.

Yikes, don't mention the last NGBA. It's an insult to Brushes.

You know what annoys me about Lindsey is the way he didn't change his GOS songs when Stevie's voice was added. I wish he had used Say You Will as an opportunity to reimagine the songs.

I suppose I understand it. On the one hand, as focused fans, we had bootlegs and so a new arrangement of an old song doesn't deprive us of material, because we had the unfinished stuff. But the artist has to think of all listeners. And I guess he doesn't want to change what he thought was a good version of his song, just because he's adding an additional vocal track to it.

Same thing with Sleeping Around the Corner. I loved Lindsey's album version, but since I had that, I wanted something a little more different on the BuckVie album.

As for the recurring Steal Your Heart Away and Bleed to Love Her, I must grit my teeth. I don't need songs that sound like what we already had. I want Crystal to Crystal.

Michele
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  #26  
Old 05-18-2019, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
Ahhh. That AHI Gypsy was wonderful.

Yikes, don't mention the last NGBA. It's an insult to Brushes.

You know what annoys me about Lindsey is the way he didn't change his GOS songs when Stevie's voice was added. I wish he had used Say You Will as an opportunity to reimagine the songs.

I suppose I understand it. On the one hand, as focused fans, we had bootlegs and so a new arrangement of an old song doesn't deprive us of material, because we had the unfinished stuff. But the artist has to think of all listeners. And I guess he doesn't want to change what he thought was a good version of his song, just because he's adding an additional vocal track to it.

Same thing with Sleeping Around the Corner. I loved Lindsey's album version, but since I had that, I wanted something a little more different on the BuckVie album.

As for the recurring Steal Your Heart Away and Bleed to Love Her, I must grit my teeth. I don't need songs that sound like what we already had. I want Crystal to Crystal.

Michele
You are my spirit twin in so many ways, Michele. Agree with everything, except for "Steal Your Heart Away." The original release of that was VERY limited, remember.... a promotional CD sold only at Best Buy, which only hardcores bought. The finished product of that was fantastic. It's one of my faves on the album. I understand not changing that one if he finds the version with Stevie creatively satisfying, and I am glad the song didn't get a re-imagining hat may have turned out like "Smile at You."

"Sleeping Around the Corner," and "Bleed to Love Her" were also favorites of mine in their original versions but yes, it's disappointing when you play the CD and discover that they sound the same as the ones that had been widely released before (an "Amazon exclusive" is still a wide release because you no longer have to physically go to a store to get it, which may or may not actually have a copy, not to mention its easy availability for streaming.)
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Last edited by sodascouts; 05-18-2019 at 11:23 AM..
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  #27  
Old 05-18-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
You know what annoys me about Lindsey is the way he didn't change his GOS songs when Stevie's voice was added. I wish he had used Say You Will as an opportunity to reimagine the songs.
Certainly the case for "Say Goodbye," as evidenced by the live version.

I just think he was happy with, and had grown attached to, what he had already created. Plus there were time, cost, and logistical factors that may have influenced the decision. Remember Stevie joined at the end of the process for vocal overdubs only.

Had he started it from scratch, I think he could have made "Steal Your Heart Away" only worse.

He certainly wasn't thinking about what people had on bootlegs. He was thinking of a broader audience along the lines of who had bought The Dance.

Last edited by cbBen; 05-19-2019 at 12:49 AM..
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  #28  
Old 05-18-2019, 10:34 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post
You are my spirit twin in so many ways, Michele. Agree with everything, except for "Steal Your Heart Away." The original release of that was VERY limited, remember.... a promotional CD.
Yes, I kept that CD in my car until the original cheap case was practically in splinters.

You once did a little review of NGBA that had me laughing heartily in accord for five straight minutes.
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  #29  
Old 05-22-2019, 08:13 AM
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Extended Play is a good release.

My favorite track from Extended Play would be "It Takes Time". Lindsey playing piano was a positive step forward. (Lindsey's keyboard work in the studio, especially the Fairlight CMI, is underrated.) A piano had been absent awhile.

Fleetwood Mac went ten years without new material. If the band was not making albums, releasing extended plays should have been the direction. Extended Play was the first. Additional extended plays would have been or, with the present band, would be welcomed.
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  #30  
Old 05-22-2019, 11:42 AM
bombaysaffires bombaysaffires is offline
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In this age of streaming, they could even have put out a single song now and again rather than a full album or even an EP. But then I guess that would have led to in-fighting over whose song got released when.
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