Stevie Nicks Says Issues With Lindsey Buckingham Threaten Her Involvement With FM

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

It was in the initial press for SYW. He was talking about the new material and how it got to that point. He also said during The Dance interviews that any notice he got out of a highly successful FM reunion would help his solo career. I used to have all that stuff, but no longer do. Maybe someone will have it readily available and post it.

I think the Dance and SYW albums made it possible for him to make Under The Skin and this rock follow-up he keeps taking about, for sure. It would be interesting to see how many younger fans would be posting here without those albums. Not so many I suspect.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

I think the Dance and SYW albums made it possible for him to make Under The Skin and this rock follow-up he keeps taking about, for sure. It would be interesting to see how many younger fans would be posting here without those albums. Not so many I suspect.

There is the rub that makes such a calamity of LB's life

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Even LB has said more than once that he gets a little jealous of her popularity and/or the fact that his production of her bare demos (which she readily describes as brilliant) get her the initial radio play to get there. Isn't it interesting that LB rarely speaks in terms of FM songs.

When has Lindsey ever said he was jealous? The closest thing he ever said was that it sometimes was hard working on her songs and even then he was talking in terms of lost love and the tension between them with her moving farther away from him. He was not saying, "I am sad and insecure because she's more popular than I am."

And it's not true that Lindsey rarely speaks in terms of FM songs either. On the Rumours DVD you can hear him talking about everyone's songs. Long before that, I can recall him remembering how a DJ cried about the way his and Christine's songs followed each other on the Rumours album and the fact that it was the 2 of them together like that that made it so powerful. When asked about the most feel good FM song, he quickly named Don't Stop. He calls Don't Stop classic Christine. He's said how Landslide was all Stevie. He said Tango had the best work by Christine ever.

Songwriters often get asked about the songs they wrote. That's why they talk about them. Lindsey has talked about more FM songs that he didn't write than Stevie has. I don't assume that's because Stevie is jealous of everyone else in FM (although I think she is jealous because she feels excluded by the musicians, something she mentioned again when talking about Dreams at the Honda center). I think they don't talk about each other's songs all the time, because they aren't asked about them.

Michele

[strandinthewind]

^^

What I meant was he rarely speaks in terms of the songs being a group effort. He has referred to his production of the songs, which could be taken as a slight to the other four members. I suppose though that the three writers have to be territorial to a point and can't say I blame them.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I think there is a lot to be said about the passage of time and its ability to focus our lens on the past in sharper detail.

I think more often the passage of time allows you to magnify either the good or the bad, depending on your current perspective and it's easy to do that once 4 years have passed, because memory and fact have conveniently blurred and fewer people are paying attention when you alter them.

The evidence establishes that Stevie and Lindsey did fight during the SYW process, because she made that perfectly clear at the time. She also said that she didn't sit there and take it. She stood her ground then. So, why is she playing the victim now? She said she went up to Lindsey and told him that he had gone in and out of her life and she had learned to do a lot of things on her own since then and she didn't need him to make her music come true any longer. And this was, in fact, the case, as she did produce Bombay Sapphires. So, there's no reason to think she had no say when he allegedly ruined her songs on SYW.

If she stuck up for herself when he wanted to change a pronoun in Thrown Down and told him no way, why would she sit quietly when he butchered an entire song (and not just a sentence in one), if she actually hated it?

In that promo when she practically has him up against the wall yelling at him, "I knew you wouldn't like it. I knew you wouldn't like it because I wrote it!" You can tell she has no trouble giving him a piece of her mind. It's just impossible for me to accept this mousy picture of herself she's painting today, based on what I saw then.

As far as putting a nice face on during the SYW tour goes. Speaking the usual platitudes and non-committal pleasantries would have been putting on a nice face. But going out of your way to praise the relationship at great length seems to be just a little proactive for it all to be a facade. Plus, even before SYW she was saying as they went into the project, "He is a much softer, sweeter man and I love that, because I knew that softer man a long time ago. So I'm seeing my old friend back again." So, it's not as if she just spun that story once she knew they would be stuck on a long tour. She said it before SYW and was still saying it in 2004.

I think like every relationship, theirs has its normal ups and downs, which are only exaggerated when you place them under a media telescope. It's at a down point right now, but not because she's been oppressed. Yet that's how she wants to present it to the public. It's not unlike the way her songs reverse things and make it seem like Lindsey left her in the relationship. She's always the put upon one in lyrics and interviews. It seems to be more of an image she has of herself than a reality.

You could say that St. Lindsey has an image of himself as a tortured artist who eschews commercial success. I'd agree that he does have somewhat of a complex, especially because I can't get him even to stop saying that FM wanted him to use a guitar pick. However, the rest of the band actually corroborates that view of Lindsey in the comments they make. I remember Stevie saying that after all of that time being around Lindsey, she didn't even want anyone to talk to her about a radio "single," because he had hammered that concept out of her head. She said this while promoting a solo album, not FM. So, it's just the impression she and Mick both have of him as aspiring to something beyond the Top 40. Conversely, I don't think anyone in the band has the same "poor little flower" impression of Stevie that she has of herself.

Anyway, talking about SYW, she said it's Lindsey's job to push the envelope and her job to make sure they aren't too out there. She made it seem like Yin and Yang, a balancing act, a push and pull of power between them, not him crushing or conquering her. And if she is as the drawing card in the band? How could it be any different?

How could he crush, conquer or bully her, if she holds all the cards? If there is no FM without her, he can't make her do anything she doesn't want to do. That was true in 2003 and 2004, just like it is today. So, I'm not sure how this victim routine can be credited. She's the most famous one. She's the most talented one. The rest of the band is entirely dependent upon her, but Lindsey pushes her around like a rag doll and she lets him because she is so selfless? Oh, Lindsey's not the one up for martydom here.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

^^

What I meant was he rarely speaks in terms of the songs being a group effort. He has referred to his production of the songs, which could be taken as a slight to the other four members. I suppose though that the three writers have to be territorial to a point and can't say I blame them.

Well, except for The Chain, I don't think anyone often talks about the group work on the songs, but Lindsey has pointed out how Mick's drumming not only contributed to one of his Tusk songs, but was the reason for its creation. He describes how he and Mick did it together in the studio one night.

Of course, Stevie talks about Lindsey's work on her songs because he was acting as producer. But I'm not sure how he could begin to talk about her input on his songs or Christine's. There's the line in Oh Daddy, but other than that, I don't think she has any involvement in their songs, aside from her vocals. As for The Chain, he did recall how it was definitely her lyrics. He talked about everyone's work on the Chain but he did say that he honestly couldn't remember anything that Mick had contributed to that. He did talk about John, Christine and Stevie though.

Michele

[DavidMn]

This is all very interesting coming from someone with my perspective who enjoys both Stevie and Lindsey equally. My main focus through the years has ALWAYS been Fleetwood Mac first and the artists within are an extension of that interest. Having said that, I have always felt the SYW is a VERY GOOD album and personally I dont think there are any bad songs on it.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by michelej1

. . . So, I'm not sure how this victim routine can be credited . . . .

I do not see her as playing the victim. She is not willing to put up with what she sees as LB's BS and is doing something about it. That active nature makes her not a victim to me. A victim would just sit there and take it and then cry about it later. To my knowledge that has not happened since the 80's

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

And, according to most, LB prefers to work on her stuff alone anyway

I think that's hardly the case. It wasn't true of TITN when he complained about her not being there. In fact, he likes her there and Stevie doesn't like being there, because she has nothing to do. Right after SYW was finished he said he wanted them to do another album where they could write and create together from the ground up, not just him working on her songs. He may like working on his songs alone (Stevie joked its because he doesn't want to look up and see her twirling a baton), but he's never said he wanted to work on hers without her.

As for Stevie's claim that she toned herself down for Lindsey, it's funny that she wore that same granny sweater to present an award to Tom Petty, when Lindsey was no where in sight. And the Reeboks had been in attendance in concert for years, starting when Lindsey was not part of the act. I don't know why once she got in her fifties, Lindsey would want her to dress more conservatively than she did when they were on stage in the eighties. And if he did, why would she listen to him? She didn't back then. She said he didn't like her to dress sexy when they first started, but that didn't stop her. Why did she change in 2003? He found new ways to threaten her?

I think constantly saying that your band members are jealous of you, from Fritz to the present day, actually reveals a lot more about the perrenial object of jealousy than it does about the band members.

Michele

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by David

I know you don't feel bad for Lindsey. You never did. You always feel bad for Stevie!

It's probably a bit of sexism on my part. I'm usually faster to defend a woman than I am to defend a guy.

But I'm every bit a Lindsey Buckingham fan. Musically, he's had me in his corner up until Underwhelming To The Bone... err, Under The Skin.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I don't think LB has ever toned it down for anyone

Nor should he or her IMO.

Oh he definitely does tone it down or at least divert it to something else. That talky personality present in the UTS shows was no where in sight on the FM tours. One thing that shocked me about the UTS tour is that I never realized Lindsey was such a good listener. Over the years, he seemed to have this glazed, distant look in his eyes and I thought he was somewhere far away and that he wasn't really present in the present. But for UTS he was really responding to the audience and making silly jokes. The venues were small with better acoustics and it was like he could hear what people were saying from 30 rows back -- and he answered them.

He showed a side of himself I didn't even glimpse with FM. And I guess I really shouldn't, because when you have a whole band there, one person can't take up all that focus.

Michele

[strandinthewind]

^^^

On Tusk - he did most of the work in his house and it caused problems That is mostly what I was talking about - Also, La Nicks has said that LB can spend hours on end in the studio laying dowm multiple tracks that only he knows how to do. That is where I was coming from. As for TITN - yes, she was barely around. Personally, I think the rehab time was her FM time and she had to go to rehab. But, she was present for all the other records to a significant degree. And, in all that time, they never wrote and produced a song together. To me, that suggests the event will never happen.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Oh he definitely does tone it down or at least divert it to something else . . . .

I was joking.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Miss Vicky

I don't recall him saying anything about it being about money. I mean, if you're right, you're right, but I'd like to see some articles to prove it.

He never said it was about the money. Stevie said it was not about the money for Lindsey, because she said that he had more money than the rest of them.

"You know, Lindsey's made a whole lot more money than anybody else did because he produces. The producers get paid first. And he probably didn't spend nearly as much money as everybody else did; he lives way simpler. So he didn't have to do this for money, you know. The rest of us would all like to put something away for, you know, our golden twilight years. But he has to want to do it, or we don't want to do it either."

Michele

[Miss Vicky]

Originally Posted by michelej1

He never said it was about the money. Stevie said it was not about the money for Lindsey, because she said that he had more money than the rest of them.

"You know, Lindsey's made a whole lot more money than anybody else did because he produces. The producers get paid first. And he probably didn't spend nearly as much money as everybody else did; he lives way simpler. So he didn't have to do this for money, you know. The rest of us would all like to put something away for, you know, our golden twilight years. But he has to want to do it, or we don't want to do it either."

Michele

Yeah, I remember that quote. That's from RS right? That's the only thing I remember ever reading about Lindsey and money in regards to The Dance, which is why I questioned what Strand said.