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  #1  
Old 02-15-2019, 09:08 PM
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Default podcasts: skipping FM because no LB

2 podcasts showed up today having interesting spins on the whole FM debacle.

after i listened to these, i cam here and read all the lamenting about nobody skipping FM shows because no Lindsey, other than huge huge fans such as people here. well - guess what? listen to these. these people are music lovers who go see most big acts, not specifically huge FM fans, and seem pretty much oblivious to all the specifics we discuss in these boards.

FM / LB bits are from just after 24 minute mark in this podcast, it's out of Birmingham, AL -
https://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/d/6/f/d6f...0d52b2f49d14d0



part about FM / LB is between 35 and 45 mins of this podcast (they talk about the Dodger Stadium show in 2017, Forum shows in 2014-15, energy at the stage in front of Lindsey etc etc. they skipped LA Forum shows because they couldn't bring themselves to sour their last great experiences of seeing FM with Lindsey, but then decided to see them in Nashville and make a trip out of it. sounds pretty obvious these people know next to nothing about the last years drama and what really happened, compared to all details we discuss here, just that LB is not in FM.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...=1000429936599

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  #2  
Old 02-16-2019, 12:15 PM
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FM / LB bits are from just after 24 minute mark in this podcast, it's out of Birmingham, AL -
https://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/d/6/f/d6f...0d52b2f49d14d0



part about FM / LB is between 35 and 45 mins of this podcast (they talk about the Dodger Stadium show in 2017, Forum shows in 2014-15, energy at the stage in front of Lindsey etc etc. they skipped LA Forum shows because they couldn't bring themselves to sour their last great experiences of seeing FM with Lindsey, but then decided to see them in Nashville and make a trip out of it. sounds pretty obvious these people know next to nothing about the last years drama and what really happened, compared to all details we discuss here, just that LB is not in FM.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...=1000429936599

If they are to believed elle, does it not sadden you that someone was in a sense paying people to be excited in front of LB while he performed?
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:08 PM
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If they are to believed elle, does it not sadden you that someone was in a sense paying people to be excited in front of LB while he performed?
why make up stuff vivfox? nobody was paying people.

some people who wanted to be at the show got free tickets. sounds familiar? you do know that's happening, right? that every member of the band and crew can give away some? not sure whether that's still the case, but Stevie used to have a gaggle of girls like that, they would actually get all access i believe.

this and reactions from some on twitter got me thinking:

what if him-or-me ultimatum was about Stevie being so annoyed (upset, jealous, pick your own adjective) by the high energy fans - especially girls - Lindsey had upfront on the last few tours that she was like - i am not going through THAT again! everybody upfront needs to be excited to see ME, not him, and everyone on the stage should pay attention to ME, instead of entertaining and flirting with the fans upfront?

someone told me last night after listening to this - what if LB was doing this precisely to annoy SN into making new music? because she definitely hated it. and he doesn't do this on any of his solo shows, or BuckVie.
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Old 02-16-2019, 02:28 PM
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someone told me last night after listening to this - what if LB was doing this precisely to annoy SN into making new music?
I guess THAT was an effective strategy.
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Old 02-16-2019, 03:23 PM
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I guess THAT was an effective strategy.
haha right?

so you think this speculation has legs?
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what if him-or-me ultimatum was about Stevie being so annoyed (upset, jealous, pick your own adjective) by the high energy fans - especially girls - Lindsey had upfront on the last few tours that she was like - i am not going through THAT again! everybody upfront needs to be excited to see ME, not him, and everyone on the stage should pay attention to ME, instead of entertaining and flirting with the fans upfront?
i'm actually pretty certain that was a part of it. how big or how small i can't tell.
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Old 02-16-2019, 04:58 PM
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it all reeks of just how dysfunctional this band is and has been for a very long time. I know people get funky about Carol Ann's book, but she pulled back the curtain on a fair bit of this kind of crap going on back in the 70s and 80s. If not these specific activities, other ego-driven, competitive, in-fighting sorts of stuff. Which has always made the onstage faux love so nauseating. I've always felt bad for fans who believed it. I believed it until about the Tusk tour. He's obsessed with competing with her and she's obsessed with showing him how she doesn't need him (until she does, even on her solo work, and sends him demos asking him to bail her out).

It's sad, it's grossly codependent, it speaks to how limited and insulated their world really is. Even though he may get out in the 'real' world more than her because of his kids and all that, within the world of FM it's all reality-distortion. That's how they can all carry on in the band without him-- all the rest of the bubble is still intact. I figure Mike is used to it because Tom's world was pretty wacky, but Neil seems more down to earth, as Kiwis and Australians are, they're very quick to take the mickey and knock anyone who gets too into themselves. The world of FM must be a bit of Alice through the Looking Glass at times for him.
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Old 02-16-2019, 10:40 PM
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and she's obsessed with showing him how she doesn't need him (until she does, even on her solo work, and sends him demos asking him to bail her out).

It's sad, it's grossly codependent, .
and also, obsessed with him and everyone else having to pay attention to her, first and foremost. that always puzzled me, if you are an entertainer, shouldn't you primarily be concerned with giving attention to your audience? not getting pi**ed about that?
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:17 PM
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what if him-or-me ultimatum was about Stevie being so annoyed (upset, jealous, pick your own adjective) by the high energy fans - especially girls - Lindsey had upfront on the last few tours that she was like - i am not going through THAT again! everybody upfront needs to be excited to see ME, not him, and everyone on the stage should pay attention to ME, instead of entertaining and flirting with the fans upfront?

someone told me last night after listening to this - what if LB was doing this precisely to annoy SN into making new music? because she definitely hated it. and he doesn't do this on any of his solo shows, or BuckVie.
I was one of the girls who was pulled up every night with my friends to stand at LB’s mic and I could definitely tell we were annoying Stevie by being up there. The first time was an accident. Venue security approached us and said “If you guys act really excited and dance around and have fun, you can stand front row by Lindsey”. So of course we did it. Free upgrade? Why not? And I guess we did it well because every other time we entered a show and saw Ian & Justin, they let us come straight up. Ironically, none of us are Lindsey’s fans. We’re there to see Stevie. All of us are diehard SN people - like we literally all have moons tattooed on our arm. So the whole thing was ironic. Every night Stevie would be visibly annoyed by Lindsey flirting with young girls and talking to us while she was making speeches and stuff, but we were really *her* fans and were there to see her. We just had to continue dancing and flirting and being obnoxious with Lindsey if we wanted our permanent front-row upgrades. We were definitely much more worried about angering her than he was. There were times that Lindsey would sit at the edge of the stage trying to start conversations with us during a particularly long SN Intro (usually the intro to Gypsy) and we’d be honestly afraid to reply because we didn’t want to piss her off. It was a weird situation. We basically had to piss off our own hero every night in order to get closer to her. It was all just bizarre.
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:36 AM
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I got up to the front that way as well, but I kind of invited myself and luckily wasn't told I was too old and ugly since I was in my 30s, lol. Maybe they really were just looking for energetic people!

I didn't like that Lindsey chatted during Stevie's intros, but it wasn't all him. There were girls desperately trying to get his attention, trying to hold conversations with him even when he was several feet away from them and looking in another direction - I remember one in front of me at a concert who was holding up her phone trying to show him her number on it. She kept hollering his name in the breaks between songs and when Stevie was talking, trying to get him to look at her.

I frankly thought it was rude, and I did not try to talk to him during quiet moments or Stevie's intros. I can understand talking to him if he is directly addressing you - who wouldn't do that?! If he is looking right at you, OK. Otherwise, though.... but I guess that's just me.

Anyway, I imagine Stevie might have been annoyed, but I didn't see her shooting anyone dirty looks; rather, she seemed to studiously avoid looking at us. She had many adoring fans gazing up at her to make up for any distractions that might have been caused by those at Lindsey's feet.

But I seriously doubt this had any bearing on Stevie's decision to get Lindsey fired, except for giving her one more entry to add to her private ledger of his sins. If it was something that particularly enraged her, she didn't have to endure it. She could have easily made it a condition of the tour that Lindsey refrain from doing it. He would have readily acquiesced, and she would have begun things with a gratifying power play under her belt. No, that wasn't it.
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Old 02-18-2019, 01:15 PM
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But I seriously doubt this had any bearing on Stevie's decision to get Lindsey fired, except for giving her one more entry to add to her private ledger of his sins. If it was something that particularly enraged her, she didn't have to endure it. She could have easily made it a condition of the tour that Lindsey refrain from doing it. He would have readily acquiesced, and she would have begun things with a gratifying power play under her belt. No, that wasn't it.
yeah, think about it - Bob Dylan thing, smirking, not understanding on his own to hold her hand when going on their backstage elevator, flirting with adoring fans at the stage, the need to release new music (that BuckVie album!), the list of ridiculous little things that she endlessly pins on him, in addition to all the little digs she's been making at him in every single story she tells - it all would seem non-consequential to a normal person, or at least to a person looking from the outside.

so as you said - these are all "entries to add to her private ledger of his sins" - you know so much about this band and BN in particular, and so do many fans here. so it makes perfect sense. something was the last straw to her, in addition to perfect timing after having just done a solo arena tour, to once and for all "win" their private little war.

yes, she could have just said no to fans at the stage in their negotiations. but that would not mean she won the war. it would have been just another little battle. she had all her ducks in place to win the war, and now there's nobody standing in her way of ruling fleetwood mac anymore.
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:07 PM
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I was one of the girls who was pulled up every night with my friends to stand at LB’s mic and I could definitely tell we were annoying Stevie by being up there. The first time was an accident. Venue security approached us and said “If you guys act really excited and dance around and have fun, you can stand front row by Lindsey”. So of course we did it. Free upgrade? Why not? And I guess we did it well because every other time we entered a show and saw Ian & Justin, they let us come straight up. Ironically, none of us are Lindsey’s fans. We’re there to see Stevie. All of us are diehard SN people - like we literally all have moons tattooed on our arm. So the whole thing was ironic. Every night Stevie would be visibly annoyed by Lindsey flirting with young girls and talking to us while she was making speeches and stuff, but we were really *her* fans and were there to see her. We just had to continue dancing and flirting and being obnoxious with Lindsey if we wanted our permanent front-row upgrades. We were definitely much more worried about angering her than he was. There were times that Lindsey would sit at the edge of the stage trying to start conversations with us during a particularly long SN Intro (usually the intro to Gypsy) and we’d be honestly afraid to reply because we didn’t want to piss her off. It was a weird situation. We basically had to piss off our own hero every night in order to get closer to her. It was all just bizarre.
This is fascinating. Thanks for sharing your insights.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:10 PM
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I get that Lindsey is difficult. I don't blame anyone for choosing not to work with him any longer.

But after the 1997 reset, it just isn't FM without LB.

They should have dissolved the band if they couldn't work with him, or change the name to something like "The Mac Attack" or "The Mac" (like the Grateful Dead shortened to "The Dead" after Jerry died).

The pre-Rumours and 1987-95 lineups were a different band.

1997 was a reset back to the classic lineup. You could remove Christine and make it work, but it just ain't Fleetwood Mac without Lindsey Buckingham (and for that matter Stevie Nicks).
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:24 PM
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I get that Lindsey is difficult. I don't blame anyone for choosing not to work with him any longer.

But after the 1997 reset, it just isn't FM without LB.

They should have dissolved the band if they couldn't work with him, or change the name to something like "The Mac Attack" or "The Mac" (like the Grateful Dead shortened to "The Dead" after Jerry died).

The pre-Rumours and 1987-95 lineups were a different band.

1997 was a reset back to the classic lineup. You could remove Christine and make it work, but it just ain't Fleetwood Mac without Lindsey Buckingham (and for that matter Stevie Nicks).

I do see your point here but the bottom line is “Fleetwood Mac” did exist before the “classic” line up. A name change is not in the cards. However, I do remember Mick saying in interviews and to me in person when I met him in 1996, that Fleetwood Mac isn’t Fleetwood Mac without Lindsey Buckingham.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:33 PM
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You could replace everyone else in the band with cardboard cut-outs and Stevie people would still go. As long as Stevie is in this band, her fans will be there. I once heard that comedian Kathleen Madigan say “Stevie Nicks could eat a baby and I would still be a diehard Stevie Nicks fan.” And that sums it up better than I could.
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We just had to continue dancing and flirting and being obnoxious with Lindsey if we wanted our permanent front-row upgrades. We were definitely much more worried about angering her than he was. There were times that Lindsey would sit at the edge of the stage trying to start conversations with us during a particularly long SN Intro (usually the intro to Gypsy) and we’d be honestly afraid to reply because we didn’t want to piss her off. It was a weird situation. We basically had to piss off our own hero every night in order to get closer to her. It was all just bizarre.
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I got up to the front that way as well, but I kind of invited myself and luckily wasn't told I was too old and ugly since I was in my 30s, lol. Maybe they really were just looking for energetic people!

I didn't like that Lindsey chatted during Stevie's intros, but it wasn't all him. There were girls desperately trying to get his attention, trying to hold conversations with him even when he was several feet away from them and looking in another direction - I remember one in front of me at a concert who was holding up her phone trying to show him her number on it. She kept hollering his name in the breaks between songs and when Stevie was talking, trying to get him to look at her.

I frankly thought it was rude, and I did not try to talk to him during quiet moments or Stevie's intros. I can understand talking to him if he is directly addressing you - who wouldn't do that?! If he is looking right at you, OK. Otherwise, though.... but I guess that's just me.
so interesting to see these interpretations of the experience juxtaposed - one from a fan who is self-admittedly cult Nicks (see her quote at the top of this post) vs Nancy and the girls in the podcast who sound like all around FM fans.

poor Nicks fan just "had to" be energetic, dance, sing and enjoy their favorite band's show. it's a hardship! while FM (and LB) fans enjoyed the experience because dancing and singing and interacting with the band just may have been what they came for - considering it's a rock concert! as these girls in podcast said, it was about having energy upfront, vs people getting wasted or falling asleep in front of the stage. (yes, it was sloppily executed, and i still read tons of people complaining about it, but many huge fans got to get to the stage this way on OWTS tour.)

if you knew what you were doing and you managed to get upfront, it was easy to move to Nicks side if that's where you wanted to be. and if you somehow got stuck on Nicks side, you could always move to Lindsey's side where all the fun and action was, if that's what you were into.

tons of fans got their albums signed and got to chat with LB, and he made it the experience of their lives, at least judging by all excited social media posts from these shows. if you wanted to listen to Stevie's long stories instead you could always do that. nobody was "making you" annoy her.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:10 PM
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so you think this speculation has legs?

i'm actually pretty certain that was a part of it. how big or how small i can't tell.
Maybe. I think there were a lot of issues.

I feel for the Brits the most in that scenario. The only thing that has to suck worse than being around a toxic relationship and having to pick sides is when livelihoods depend on it.
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