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  #31  
Old 12-14-2008, 11:13 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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Originally Posted by snoot View Post
Welch and Weston kept it alive during their tenures, but I'm drawing a blank as to whether Buckingham added much to it, or at all. I remember Stephanie from B&N, but surely there was more. Someone set me straight!
Well, not much, but I guess Teen Beat.

Michele
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  #32  
Old 12-14-2008, 11:29 PM
snoot snoot is offline
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
Well, not much, but I guess Teen Beat.

Michele
Ah we're making progress. Michele to the rescue!

Good to know there is something left of the tradition right into the B&N era. I also like your Christy quote from earlier. Says a lot, and directly from the source!
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  #33  
Old 12-15-2008, 01:05 AM
snoot snoot is offline
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Default Compilation only I now see

Oh no, I see it never made it onto an original release! That appears to mean the great instrumental bonus track went down with Welch. Noooooooooooo.

Lindsey, for gawd's sake, do something about this before it's too late!
(wonder if he ever stops in here for pointers).
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  #34  
Old 12-15-2008, 12:00 PM
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Default mystery revisited

It took me a couple of days to have time to focus on this Album
This is my take:
Well I will send in next transmission

back in a momentEmerld Eyes: pop song Bad choice for first cut. Probably what made it get few listens when it was released\

Believe Me soft rock, nice no substance

Just crazy Love nice song with no guitar solo when band finally gets groove

Hypnotized: best song on Album, should have been First cut topical reference to Scientology, Budism, Carlos Castenada, which begs the question of if Bob was taken in by any or all of above.

Forever, pseudo Rasta beat breaks into nice groove and back. Aimless

Keep on Going, Take off on Masquerade by George Benson. Without groove of Bensons tune

The City. Take off on Don Nix’s Going Down, a lot of riffing but no gut when it counted at the end

Miles Away, Messrs McVie and Fleetwood do a solid on this and band grooves, second good song throughout. Brings back another reference to Carlos Casteneda.. Might Welch have been hypnotized.


Somebody: This song appears to be a screed aimed at Peter Green. Awhile back I read on Welch’s website his encounters with Green. I sense animosity turned into contempt. Song is not memorable in any event.

The way I Feel. Another pop song

For Your Love not a straight cover, song can’t make up its mind. So so

Why: third good song, starts off with a nice slide part. A cross between Showbiz Blues and Ry Cooder’s rendition of Vigilante Man. Then the song shfts to Christine showing her possibilities.

Last edited by doodyhead; 12-15-2008 at 12:04 PM.. Reason: forgot text
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  #35  
Old 12-15-2008, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by doodyhead View Post
Take off on Masquerade by George Benson. Without groove of Bensons tune
Ummm...Leon Russell wrote "This Masquerade", not Benson.
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  #36  
Old 12-15-2008, 01:26 PM
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Default mea culpa

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Originally Posted by chiliD View Post
Ummm...Leon Russell wrote "This Masquerade", not Benson.
you are right, but I was thinking of Bensons version.

I could have said Freddie King's Going Down....still the best by anyone.
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  #37  
Old 12-15-2008, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by doodyhead View Post
you are right, but I was thinking of Bensons version.

I could have said Freddie King's Going Down....still the best by anyone.
Agree about Freddie King's version of "Going Down" - and another Leon Russell connection there, of course.
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  #38  
Old 12-15-2008, 05:03 PM
snoot snoot is offline
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Default No surprise

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Originally Posted by doodyhead View Post
It took me a couple of days to have time to focus on this Album
This is my take:
Oh boo hoo to pop. Vinnie, you and your pop aversions! Well at least I'll give you credit for sitting down and spinning 'er up. Must have been like going to the dentist though. At least you see a few shining flourishes! Emerald Eyes was hardly a bad choice for first cut, and MTM got plenty of listens by the Mac devoted when it was released -- where were you back then? Oh yeah, lost in the blues. Hypnotized was too good a song to open the disc with. You kinda build up to a climax, ya know?

The City, a lot of riffing but no gut when it counted at the end

Well then enjoy the early talk box guitar novelty. That riffing is great, only a blues fanatic couldn't appreciate it.

"Animosity bordering on contempt"? Welch has and holds nothing against Green! He always points to Peter's brilliant guitar takes (though he does state Kirwan pretty much matched it - could that be the issue here?). Kindly want to furnish a few quotes to back up yer accusation? Inquiring minds would love to see them.

Your read of Why is good though. That slide is Bob Weston, who also arranged the song (later converted to strings nearly note for note, sans Weston credit). Great CM composition for sure.

Keep on Going, Take off on Masquerade by George Benson. Without groove of Bensons tune.

Uh, hate to ring your bell big boy, but how can that be a rip-off of Benson's Masquerade when it was recorded + released 3 years prior? Maybe Benson was ripping off Welch, eh! Groove-wise, Masquerade burns no brighter imo.

So 3/12 = 1/4 good. I'll say it again, getouttahere!
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  #39  
Old 12-16-2008, 07:39 AM
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Default which came first

Quote:
Originally Posted by snoot View Post
where were you back then? Oh yeah, lost in the blues. Hypnotized was too good a song to open the disc with. You kinda build up to a climax, ya know?

The City, a lot of riffing but no gut when it counted at the end

Well then enjoy the early talk box guitar novelty. That riffing is great, only a blues fanatic couldn't appreciate it.

"Animosity bordering on contempt"? Welch has and holds nothing against Green! He always points to Peter's brilliant guitar takes (though he does state Kirwan pretty much matched it - could that be the issue here?). Kindly want to furnish a few quotes to back up yer accusation? Inquiring minds would love to see them.

Your read of Why is good though. That slide is Bob Weston, who also arranged the song (later converted to strings nearly note for note, sans Weston credit). Great CM composition for sure.

Keep on Going, Take off on Masquerade by George Benson. Without groove of Bensons tune.

Uh, hate to ring your bell big boy, but how can that be a rip-off of Benson's Masquerade when it was recorded + released 3 years prior? Maybe Benson was ripping off Welch, eh! Groove-wise, Masquerade burns no brighter imo.

So 3/12 = 1/4 good. I'll say it again, getouttahere!
Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has them


lyrics to "Somebodt"
Don't think your dreams are sane
They're taking over your life
I stuck to you but I found out
That you was the crazy kind
Now way inside your heart
Do you have a grain of love for me
'Cause all I see is decadence
And the end of everything

You can bend over backwards
I ain't gonna kiss your ring
Somebody

I looked into your eyes
And saw a real bad thing
I saw desires that burned in you
The need for power to be a king
And I saw that you would use this world
You know you might have to crawl
But it's one of my eyes for one of yours
And you'll never get no love at all

what do you think?

as far a s which came first. I did not check the dates but that is hardly relevant to what they sound like. comparing two pop songs is judged by which gets airplay. "truly the work of the devil" and if it were true that Benson got inspiration from Welch...thats good aint it? Benson moved into the Pop realm too. Oh Well
There are thousands of incredibly gifted musicians. I don't trash em. It does not mean that everything they do is gold. I have heard all stars play badly together.

doodyhead

as far as "getoutahere" I wish you would stop saying that unless you mean it in the "brooklyn sense"
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  #40  
Old 12-16-2008, 08:19 AM
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Default Lost in The Blues

Quote:
Originally Posted by snoot View Post
where were you back then? Oh yeah, lost in the blues.
Dear Snoot,

in 1973 I was a working musician in a "blues band". The blues boom had subsided and I got a day job. I never stopped listening to music. My tastes evolved. I don't know what you remember of the 60's and 70's but Fleetwood mac was not on the top of everybody's musical tastes in any era including PG to B/N to poor dave mason.
The pop event of the non music side of FM has obviously had a wilder ride


I am still a musician and I do respect the abilities of Bob Welch and Mr Weston.

taste is relative when it comes to how a song is presented

doodyhead
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  #41  
Old 12-16-2008, 12:30 PM
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aleuzzi aleuzzi is offline
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At the end of the day, only a few thousand people in the world still listen to these albums, if that. If someone doesn't like the bulk of it at least his interests in critiquing it keep the record alive...

To me Mystery is a VERY good album. But it has always gotten very mixed criticism in the press. One of the rare highlights of Brunning's otherwise awful book on the Mac is when he cites the mixed critical reports on this record.

Since then, music journalists have either placed the album in "one of the band's best" or "boring/middling" category.
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  #42  
Old 12-16-2008, 01:22 PM
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doodyhead doodyhead is offline
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Default three good songs on a record is not bad at all

Most Albums have one or two that you remember after the first few plays, then the go into the dustbin of history.

nobody remembers the clinkers unless they are really bad, and then they would be good for that reason.

In this crowd it would be incredibly difficult to get even nominal concensus in a true best of CD collection for fleetwood mac.

There would be a couple of votes for songs in this album no doubt

doodyhead
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  #43  
Old 12-16-2008, 03:47 PM
snoot snoot is offline
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Default But there are more than 3 good songs on MTM!

Quote:
Originally Posted by doodyhead View Post
Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has them
Right. But of course, what would the world be like without belly buttons? Not one I'd like to be in!

As for your reference to Somebody, I'd like to know who Welch's "somebody" actually was - who was that target of his lament? Not that it matters, as we all have our own "somebody". Great tune though.

There are thousands of incredibly gifted musicians. I don't trash em. It does not mean that everything they do is gold. I have heard all stars play badly together.

Quite true. It often takes just the right pairing to produce "magic." That formula often can't be predicted, formulated or force fabricated with purely all-star talent. You can count the number of truly successful "supergroups" on one hand, if even. For whatever reason, the math just doesn't work out.

in 1973 I was a working musician in a "blues band". The blues boom had subsided and I got a day job. I never stopped listening to music. My tastes evolved. I don't know what you remember of the 60's and 70's but Fleetwood mac was not on the top of everybody's musical tastes in any era including PG to B/N to poor dave mason.

That is true also (with the exception that follows). That's why I often refer to the early adopters as the "Mac faithful" or "Mac diehards". Those that go back to the Green or Kirwan years were never overwhelming in numbers, but still there was a reasonably "substantial" base back then (Fleetwood Mac DID have a name early on don't forget). But you are wrong also, in that the West Coast Pop sound that constituted Fleetwood Mac after Lindsey & Stevie came on board WAS on the top of many, many folks musical tastes in the mid to late 70's (between the '75 white album and Rumours to wit). And that's a fact Jack.

taste is relative when it comes to how a song is presented

Yeah sort of again. But come on, most of us know a "winner" when he hear one. There are certain melodies and hooks that are undeniable. The consensus of opinion often indicates just such a validity. That's where and how we often get those things we call "hits". Now not every great melody line or composition gets its due recognition, that's for sure. In some ways what gets airwave time can also be damn near random (payola aside). Beyond that, some of the best music ever produced was never targeted for radio play to begin with. But that withstanding, as to how a song is presented, yeah I'll agree, things are much more relative and subjective.

I respect all blues bangers, never forget that. What I don't respect is undiluted fanaticism over the genre, that is, making more of it than need be, the same as in any other style of music. It's just another great form of crafted musical notes, with its own unique flavor. I never see it as a step up or down from rock n roll, or C&W for that matter (though I am not personally a big C&W fan). As I see it, none of these forms reach the heights of classical music in terms of sheer complexity. Fortunately that doesn't matter when it comes to being able to appreciate each variant - same with jazz, pop, standards, etc.

I am still a musician and I do respect the abilities of Bob Welch and Mr Weston.

I believe it, it's actually evident when you read between the lines. But imo you're still not giving enough credit to MTM. But hey, at least you recognize it has some winning moments. Welch + Weston play well together (but the same could be said for Welch + Kirwan during their tenure). Welch framed the music, and let Weston have wide license to adorn it as he saw fit. And dang if it didn't work well with some of those sweet tradeoffs.

as far as "getoutahere" I wish you would stop saying that unless you mean it in the "brooklyn sense"

getouttahere! = yougottabekiddin! (nothing more, now you know)

Now go spin up Kiln House. There' s a similar thread here rating that one. Inquiring minds would like to hear Big V's take on it.
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  #44  
Old 12-16-2008, 04:00 PM
snoot snoot is offline
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Originally Posted by aleuzzi View Post
At the end of the day, only a few thousand people in the world still listen to these albums, if that.
Well maybe at this late point TODAY at best, but not once upon a time. Moreover you'd have to change "a few thousand" to tens or hundreds of thousands to be anywhere near the mark, especially worldwide. Not everyone who has MTM in their collection, or listens to it on a regular basis, shows up at the Ledge. In fact, probably 1 in 10,000 do!

To me Mystery is a VERY good album. But it has always gotten very mixed criticism in the press. One of the rare highlights of Brunning's otherwise awful book on the Mac is when he cites the mixed critical reports on this record.

It's generally cited as one of the Mac's best productions, short of a few whiny Green diehard critics, or detractors of the Welch sound. I remember quite well the "smoke" around it at its time of release, the fact that it was so divergent from the original Blues Mac (oh boo hoo, wah wah wah). But even upon its release, a lot of folks gave it winning marks, to include many Mac "early adaptors." Hypnotized helped immeasurably. That song is just undeniably cool and breezy.

Since then, music journalists have either placed the album in "one of the band's best" or "boring/middling" category.

Some things never change. F*ck the so called music critics. Always go by your own gut instinct, and what your ears, heart and foot tell you. That's always far more reliable measuring stick. But you know that.
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  #45  
Old 12-18-2008, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by snoot View Post

It's generally cited as one of the Mac's best productions, short of a few whiny Green diehard critics, or detractors of the Welch sound. I remember quite well the "smoke" around it at its time of release, the fact that it was so divergent from the original Blues Mac (oh boo hoo, wah wah wah). But even upon its release, a lot of folks gave it winning marks, to include many Mac "early adaptors." [/I]
Read Brunning's bad book. And consider Steve Clarke's two books on Mac.
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