Hillary speaks........

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by dissention

Agreed. That's exactly why so many people hated Teresa with a passion.

Bastards!

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Can I just get this straight?

Are the Democrats supposed to keep nominating middle-of-the-road candidates every four years, fail at getting said middle-of-the-road schmuck elected each time, go back into their little bag of tricks, pull out an even more conservative candidate, and then expect the liberals to support them because they're supposedly "Democrats"? Ugh.

These people are not Democrats, they're Bush-lite. If anything is killing the Democratic party, it's the leaders of that party. They're so out of touch with everything, elections are just exercises in focus groups and internal polling for them. They don't know how to choose candidates, they don't know how to run national campaigns, and if they keep going at the rate they currently are, they are going to be the minority party for many years to come. And that's if they're lucky. A few more nominees like Kerry or Edwards and the Democratic party as we know it will cease to exist. The liberals who keep that joke of a party afloat will jump ship without hesitation and only the fairweather Democrats will remain, of which they're are not many as evidenced by the past two elections. They screwed up royally and continue to do so each day. Pissing off the people who elected you to your current post by exercising your lack of spine with every vote is a no-win formula, and it's even more of a no-win formula when you try to pull the wool over everyone's eyes every fourth November.

This Democratic party is no better than the Republican party. Except the Republican party knows how to get **** done.

Well, Americans want to elect the lesser of each party - thus the middle of the road. W gives off the appearance of being that - he does so by lying to achieve that goal and by making scapegoats of gay people - pure and simple. But, people like him and they liked Clinton and RR because they were plain spoken. I really do not see how that can be refuted.

I also think that if BB or some other truly liberal person ran, they would get slughtered by Jeb in 08 and would carry their principles all of the way back home in defeat. But, I look at the big picture and recognize politics is about winning in the end - not just the battles on the way

Do you honestly think America in its present state will vote for a screaming liberal - I do not think so

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Do you honestly think America in its present state will vote for a screaming liberal - I do not think so.

I think so. I think if Howard Dean had been nominated, he would have won. The key to winning is to have a spine, stick to the core values of the party and electrify the electorate.

As Sideshow Bob once said-

"Because you need me, Springfield. Your guilty conscience may force you to vote Democratic, but deep down inside you secretly long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalize criminals, and rule you like a king. That's why I did this: to protect you from yourselves. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a city to run."

The only way to beat the "daddy" factor is for a liberal to be as tough as nails.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by The Tower

I think so. I think if Howard Dean had been nominated, he would have won. The key to winning is to have a spine, stick to the core values of the party and electrify the electorate.

As Sideshow Bob once said-

"Because you need me, Springfield. Your guilty conscience may force you to vote Democratic, but deep down inside you secretly long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalize criminals, and rule you like a king. That's why I did this: to protect you from yourselves. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a city to run."

The only way to beat the "daddy" factor is for a liberal to be as tough as nails.

I think Dean would have been crucified and then burned at the stake. AND - mind you I admired him, gave him money (alot of it actually ) , and met him But, we will never really know

Edit: I do agree with you, however, that a strong voice is imperative and Dean most assuredly had that. Kerry did not. Although I got what he was saying, to most it looked as if he hedged everything. So, I do agree with you that whoever the candiate is, they have to be strong like Dean

Also - I would have liked for Dean to have won

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by The Tower

I think so. I think if Howard Dean had been nominated, he would have won. The key to winning is to have a spine, stick to the core values of the party and electrify the electorate.

As Sideshow Bob once said-

"Because you need me, Springfield. Your guilty conscience may force you to vote Democratic, but deep down inside you secretly long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalize criminals, and rule you like a king. That's why I did this: to protect you from yourselves. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a city to run."

The only way to beat the "daddy" factor is for a liberal to be as tough as nails.

Right on! Are you part of the DeanforAmerica mailing list? Actually it is now DemocracyforAmerica.org. He's been working to get people to run for office with liberal values. I loved that he was so courageous. I hate that the scream was so "important" in the media. That pissed me off and broke my heart. One man begins an illegal war resulting in the deaths of tens if thousands, the other screams once.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by The Tower

I think so. I think if Howard Dean had been nominated, he would have won. The key to winning is to have a spine, stick to the core values of the party and electrify the electorate.

As Sideshow Bob once said-

"Because you need me, Springfield. Your guilty conscience may force you to vote Democratic, but deep down inside you secretly long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalize criminals, and rule you like a king. That's why I did this: to protect you from yourselves. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a city to run."

The only way to beat the "daddy" factor is for a liberal to be as tough as nails.

I agree 100%. I thought that nominating Dean would be suicide, but I quickly changed that opinion. Nominating Dean would have won us the White House. Kerry's a spineless coward, he won't even get my vote when he runs for the Senate again.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

I agree 100%. I thought that nominating Dean would be suicide, but I quickly changed that opinion. Nominating Dean would have won us the White House.

But could he have survived the media when he certainly could not survive the one attack on the vociferous speech - I wish we could have known and it certainly was his to lose and, sadly, he did. I mean if the D's only gave him one (I think) state in the primaries after his supernova beginning, would they have supported him enough in the end. Again, we will never know and I wish we could have found out

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think Dean would have been crucified and then burned at the stake.

Personally, I think Howard would have kicked Dubya's f*cking ass and shredded him to pieces. I don't think he would have held back on anything. I think Kerry's main problem was his past and Howard doesn't have that kind of baggage.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Personally, I think Howard would have kicked Dubya's f*cking ass and shredded him to pieces. I don't think he would have held back on anything. I think Kerry's main problem was his past and Howard doesn't have that kind of baggage.

Touche'

I also note Kerry the spineless did almost win though - so I give him props for that.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Do you honestly think America in its present state will vote for a screaming liberal - I do not think so

Yes, I most certainly do. Why do you think Kerry lost the election? Because he ran to the middle. What did that accomplish? nothing but muddying the water. Voters looked at Kerry and Bush, realized that Kerry really wasn't all that much different than Bush, and asked themselves why they should change their horse in the middle of a stream. The common man felt that way, like it or not. And it's all because of the run to the middle. Kerry said that knowing what he knows now about Iraq, he still would have voted to authorize it. He said he supports faith-based initiatives 100%. He said he didn't personally agree with abortion. He said he opposed gay marriage and that if he could vote to ban it in MA, he would. See what I'm getting at? The common voter saw no difference between the two, so they stuck with the incumbent. There was nothing about John Kerry that compelled them to vote for him. He was a weak candidate.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But could he have survived the media when he certainly could not survive the one attack on the vociferous speech - I wish we could have known and it certainly was his to lose and, sadly, he did. I mean if the D's only gave him one (I think) state in the primaries after his supernova beginning, would they have supported him enough in the end. Again, we will never know and I wish we could have found out

The scream did nothing to curtail his campaign, his loss in Iowa did that all by itself, IMO. The scream simply confirmed the fact that it was over for him. And why did he lose in Iowa? Because John Kerry had Vietnam to back him up and those that voted for him thought that alone would seal the deal.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Personally, I think Howard would have kicked Dubya's f*cking ass and shredded him to pieces. I don't think he would have held back on anything. I think Kerry's main problem was his past and Howard doesn't have that kind of baggage.

Well, I wouldn't say that. The records he had sealed pertaining to his stint as governor would have been quite an issue.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

The scream did nothing to curtail his campaign, his loss in Iowa did that all by itself, IMO. The scream simply confirmed the fact that it was over for him. And why did he lose in Iowa? Because John Kerry had Vietnam to back him up and those that voted for him thought that alone would seal the deal.

that scream was played on every news station for like a week and it was mocked by everyone who mattered

But, yes, Dean was finished by that time and everyone pretty much knew it. Again, I would like for Dean to have won. I also think anyone that wins will have to be as clear and as plain spoken as Dean. Jeb Bush is clear and plain spoken and he has one helluva political machine behind him. The D's have their work cut out for them

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by The Tower

I think so. I think if Howard Dean had been nominated, he would have won. The key to winning is to have a spine, stick to the core values of the party and electrify the electorate.

I wonder if the Iowa caucus was a set up.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

that scream was played on every news station for like a week and it was mocked by everyone who mattered

He had already lost.