Dave Stewart Memoir

[Missy]

Originally Posted by lilyfee

This is definitely true but I have trouble seeing where he has done this for Stevie. Pre-Dave her voice had that beautiful human fragility but lately it just seems overproduced to me.

Yes it's a shame (after hearing her live last year I thought she should sound better on her recordings). One of their more critical reviews says 'Dating back to his tenure with the Eurythmics, Stewart has proven himself to be one of pop music's most progressive, fearless producers, which would make him a perfect choice to work with an icon like Nicks on her first solo album in 10 years. But he's rarely sounded so conservative at the mixing board as he does on In Your Dreams.'

He might be easier to work with than Lindsey and perhaps Stevie herself was quite happy with the results. After all her other contributions over the years, she perhaps has the right to do something just for herself and have a fun experience.

I'm in Australia looking at the current debacle unfolding with Madonna, who is 10 years younger than Stevie. She appears to still be so desperate to appear youthful and relevant. Stevie still takes care of her appearance but I'm grateful that she is not going down that path at any cost.

One thing I liked about The Eurythmics is that the sound mixes were not too cluttered even though they were electronic. They kept that going for several albums. There was so much other music of that era that was ruined because it was overproduced. Suddenly the engineers had multiple tracks and full range of digital effects at their disposal, and they went crazy with it. Sometimes they still do. But in recent years I think it's something they've managed to do better with artists like Adele.

I haven't been such a big fan of Dave's work with others though like Tom Petty. I'm just not a Tom Petty fan. I have nothing against him, just not my taste - which probably seems weird for a Stevie fan.

Damn Lindsey lol. Stevie has other great guitar players she can perform with. But somehow it never seems the same as with Lindsey. It's probably easier for her and it's still good but not quite the same dynamic as between those two.

As for this book... it's an interesting read though I get the feeling some things are downplayed. Some things also seem to contradict what I've heard about before. In one Stevie biography, it's stated that they were both doing cocaine together when they had their 'encounter'. In the book Stewart makes no mention of himself doing drugs when this all happened.

There was plenty of dabbling in drugs before The Eurythmics. Then nothing mentioned again until 1994 when he tried some MDMA when 'At that point, I hadn't taken drugs for a very long time' and it made him ill so it wasn't something he repeated.

His personal and musical partnership with Annie was perhaps also rockier than he describes. There's a vague mention of 'jealousy' becoming a factor after awhile but never really fully described. This is admittedly a tabloid article but back in the day, Annie was supposed to possess a fierce temper and they both admitted having rows. I would probably need to read something else to get the full story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-systems.html

[wheart]

Originally Posted by lilyfee

This is definitely true but I have trouble seeing where he has done this for Stevie. Pre-Dave her voice had that beautiful human fragility but lately it just seems overproduced to me.

IYD and 24K may not be perfect records but Stevie's voice and her vocal performances are far superior to those on SYW and TISL. Her voice on those records was nasal, monotone and uninspired. Her voice will never be as it once was but it's a hell of a lot better with Dave (Stewart & Grohl) than it's been in a while.

[Missy]

I still like this song and the clip (though it's weird) which Dave was very involved in the filming of. This was when music videos were still quite a new thing in 1983.

Stevie apparently watched all these clips and told Dave she was not going to cut her hair off short like Annie! Obviously not. I think they are both great, but very different people and artists.

I read that when MTV first showed this clip, they took it off air halfway through, at the part where Annie pulls off her wig and transforms from a high class hooker into a man. They then demanded birth certificate proof that she really was a woman!

When they achieved some success in America they started going a bit more rock n roll and Annie became a bit less ambiguous. But for awhile I don't think people quite knew how to react to her.

[wheart]

Originally Posted by Missy

I still like this song and the clip (though it's weird) which Dave was very involved in the filming of. This was when music videos were still quite a new thing in 1983.

Stevie apparently watched all these clips and told Dave she was not going to cut her hair off short like Annie! Obviously not. I think they are both great, but very different people and artists.

I read that when MTV first showed this clip, they took it off air halfway through, at the part where Annie pulls off her wig and transforms from a high class hooker into a man. They then demanded birth certificate proof that she really was a woman!

When they achieved some success in America they started going a bit more rock n roll and Annie became a bit less ambiguous. But for awhile I don't think people quite knew how to react to her.

I love this video and this song! Yes, back in the day Annie Lennox was quite shocking

[Missy]

Originally Posted by wheart

I love this video and this song! Yes, back in the day Annie Lennox was quite shocking

I have been away for a bit, caught up in some other matter, but anyhow...

What Annie did was extremely confrontational for its time! But it wasn't just a mere 'shock gimmick' like some of them do nowadays. They had the goods to back it up and there was usually a genuine artistic purpose behind it.

But yes, Annie could be very confusing. They once recorded with Aretha Franklin and apparently Aretha didn't know what to make of Annie. She thought 'Sisters Are Doin It For Themselves' could have some other kind of meaning lol. So Dave had to explain to her that Annie was not gay and it was just a feminist song.

Anyway, once they were singing together, it was all going okay because Aretha could hear that Annie had the pipes.

I don't know if that sort of song would come out today. I am totally with Stevie when she says "We fought very hard for feminism, for women's rights. What I'm seeing today is a very opposite thing. I don't know why, but I see women being put back in their place. And I hate it. We're losing all we worked so hard for, and it really bums me out."

Sadly I think that some born after the feminist era and are now in a post-feminist environment, they take some of the equalities for granted and don't realize, how hard it had to be fought for and how easily it could all be taken away again.

But now the feminist cause seems to be gaining new momentum. There has been the issue with Kesha and Taylor Swift's stand against Kanye. Part of me suspects, this is just another fad but I hope sooner or later they wake up.

I find the way that Stevie and Annie assert their own female identities very interesting, though quite different to each other.

Vanessa Carton once said 'Stevie understands how much power there is in the feminine, and she's not afraid of it.' There is also this observation by Mike Campbell 'Stevie is strong-willed, and at the same time she's vulnerable and fragile. And that's a really great combination.'

And then you had someone like Annie who came along and broke all the rules, stereotypes and definitions! But each to their own - however they chose to define themselves, both remarkable women.

Annie in drag during the 'Who's That Girl' video.



Infamous Grammys performance 1984. Copied later by Gaga.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzpZJ05BfHI

There are some more observations in the book about how being former partners had an effect on how they created their music. I might get back to that later. But yeh Dave and Annie are often described as the UK equivalent to Lindsey and Stevie with their personal arrangement. I'm rediscovering the Eurythmics while reading this book. I was very young when their hits were in the charts... a lot of the songs have a different sort of meaning to me now.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by Missy

I don't know if that sort of song would come out today. I am totally with Stevie when she says "We fought very hard for feminism, for women's rights. What I'm seeing today is a very opposite thing. I don't know why, but I see women being put back in their place. And I hate it. We're losing all we worked so hard for, and it really bums me out."

Sadly I think that some born after the feminist era and are now in a post-feminist environment, they take some of the equalities for granted and don't realize, how hard it had to be fought for and how easily it could all be taken away again.

But now the feminist cause seems to be gaining new momentum. There has been the issue with Kesha and Taylor Swift's stand against Kanye. Part of me suspects, this is just another fad but I hope sooner or later they wake up.

I find the way that Stevie and Annie assert their own female identities very interesting, though quite different to each other.

Vanessa Carton once said 'Stevie understands how much power there is in the feminine, and she's not afraid of it.' There is also this observation by Mike Campbell 'Stevie is strong-willed, and at the same time she's vulnerable and fragile. And that's a really great combination.'

And then you had someone like Annie who came along and broke all the rules, stereotypes and definitions! But each to their own - however they chose to define themselves, both remarkable women.

yes but Stevie herself has evolved on this issue. In the beginning she talked about having to play all feminine and coy around the guys in the business, about being "quiet and feminine and trick them to death" and how when she was around the Eagles they couldn't take her talking about FM "at all" and so she just wouldn't talk about it around them.... I highly doubt she'd be that submissive now. She's far more willing now to be outspoken and state what she wants and doesn't want without worrying about whether it somehow makes her less feminine than she was then. Clearly she has made her mark now and speaks from the perspective of a woman who has become legendary in her field, as opposed to when she was just starting out.

[Feather Blade]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

yes but Stevie herself has evolved on this issue. In the beginning she talked about having to play all feminine and coy around the guys in the business, about being "quiet and feminine and trick them to death" and how when she was around the Eagles they couldn't take her talking about FM "at all" and so she just wouldn't talk about it around them.... I highly doubt she'd be that submissive now. She's far more willing now to be outspoken and state what she wants and doesn't want without worrying about whether it somehow makes her less feminine than she was then. Clearly she has made her mark now and speaks from the perspective of a woman who has become legendary in her field, as opposed to when she was just starting out.

Or perhaps just from the perspective of an older person who realizes that life is short and it isn't worth worrying about the same things that you might have spent time and energy worrying/thinking about as a younger person.

[Missy]

Oh yes Stevie can be very outspoken these days. It is true sometimes it just worries you less as you get older. But I think also when you have had to go through major rehab, you need to try and let go of a lot of the bulls***. And just be who you are. It can be a very transforming experience.

Sorry if everyone has perhaps seen this already, but came across this video. What is freaking me out a little is a skull on the piano! And are those her real shoes? I could not walk in those, let alone try and twirl!

[olive]

she needs a new Uniform .

[michelej1]

[from a Dave Stewart interview with radio.com]

http://radio.com/2016/04/12/dave-ste...-value-of-fun/

Speaking of Be Yourself Tonight, in the book you describe collaborating with both Stevie Wonder and Aretha Franklin on that album, and you’ve collaborated with lots of huge artists over the course of your career. Stevie Nicks says she’s never written with someone in the way that she’s written with you, and in the book, Mick Jagger says that you take the angst out of recording. What is it about your personality that you’re able to create environment where talented people can relax a bit and work together?

I think Mick says in the forward that my main number one priority is, “Is it gonna be fun?” I’ve got this sort of “life’s too short” attitude. We’re just having fun, like kids in a playpen, and “Oops!” out pops a song.

I said to Stevie Nicks, “Hey, look, if we don’t like it, we just throw it away. Nobody will ever hear it.” So it kind of takes away a lot of the tension for the artists. Just like anybody in a job, they gotta hand in their papers, or if you’re at college, you do the exam. Basically, people are expecting to hear a cohesive song or an album or a video or something, and you’re expected to deliver it.

Well, the more successful you get, the higher the expectations are. Even though they’re brilliant, most artists are very insecure. So how do I handle that?

Well, the best way is to say “Let’s do stuff, but not worry whether it comes out or not or whether it’s the right one or not. Let’s just do stuff for now.” And you can see them react like, “Phew! Okay, let’s play,” and it’s suddenly back to the way they remembered it when they first started.

[Newzchspy]

Originally Posted by lilyfee

This is definitely true but I have trouble seeing where he has done this for Stevie. Pre-Dave her voice had that beautiful human fragility but lately it just seems overproduced to me.:shrug:

Bingo,^ ^ ^ , Dave S production seems to have lost the "voice' and is more focused on the music, rather than the genius that is Stevie in her own right. Lindsey, despite the angst of them together, seems to have a "feel" for Stevie and can incorporate the music into her lyrics, rather than vice versa. Stevie has this magic about her , like a seasoned poet, and all it takes is the talent of a musician like Lindsey to incorporate those "poems" or stories into a song. The Dave S method may be "relaxing" for Stevie, BUT so is getting a nice massage. I'd rather have a lil tension and better music that Lindsey and Stevie do together. I also firmly believe that Mick's drumming has a good feel for Stevie as well. Its just not there with Dave S production.

[Newzchspy]

Originally Posted by michelej1

[from a Dave Stewart interview with radio.com]

http://radio.com/2016/04/12/dave-ste...-value-of-fun/

Speaking of Be Yourself Tonight, in the book you describe collaborating with both Stevie Wonder and Aretha Franklin on that album, and you’ve collaborated with lots of huge artists over the course of your career. Stevie Nicks says she’s never written with someone in the way that she’s written with you, and in the book, Mick Jagger says that you take the angst out of recording. What is it about your personality that you’re able to create environment where talented people can relax a bit and work together?

I think Mick says in the forward that my main number one priority is, “Is it gonna be fun?” I’ve got this sort of “life’s too short” attitude. We’re just having fun, like kids in a playpen, and “Oops!” out pops a song.

I said to Stevie Nicks, “Hey, look, if we don’t like it, we just throw it away. Nobody will ever hear it.” So it kind of takes away a lot of the tension for the artists. Just like anybody in a job, they gotta hand in their papers, or if you’re at college, you do the exam. Basically, people are expecting to hear a cohesive song or an album or a video or something, and you’re expected to deliver it.

Well, the more successful you get, the higher the expectations are. Even though they’re brilliant, most artists are very insecure. So how do I handle that?

Well, the best way is to say “Let’s do stuff, but not worry whether it comes out or not or whether it’s the right one or not. Let’s just do stuff for now.” And you can see them react like, “Phew! Okay, let’s play,” and it’s suddenly back to the way they remembered it when they first started.

This ^^^^ is exactly where its wrong with Stevie. Her mind is like a wandering minstral that needs guidance and not a laissez faire attitude of "lets see how it goes." She needs guidance and structure in her songs & music, NOT "lets throw up everything against the wall and see what sticks." This is exactly why since about 2010 her songs and music have failed IMHO.

[michelej1]

^Well, for sure Cheaper Than Free sounds like exactly what he described, which you bolded:

We’re just having fun, like kids in a playpen, and “Oops!” out pops a song.

[Newzchspy]

Originally Posted by michelej1

^Well, for sure Cheaper Than Free sounds like exactly what he described, which you bolded:

Interestingly, that is one of her most "disliked" songs....................

She needs to quit playin and get out of the sandbox or playpen and get back into the studio with FM or Lindzers!! This whole Dave S stuff will soon be a distant memory.............

[olive]

Originally Posted by Newzchspy

Interestingly, that is one of her most "disliked" songs....................

She needs to quit playin and get out of the sandbox or playpen and get back into the studio with FM or Lindzers!! This whole Dave S stuff will soon be a distant memory.............

YEAH ! she needs to make landslide 2 ......... ( for the record i threw up a bit in my mouth as i typed that )