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  #181  
Old 01-25-2011, 10:48 AM
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sharksfan2000 sharksfan2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doodyhead View Post
Dear Vivfox,

I also did not imply that you said it either.


It is just that when a lie gets repeated over and over, it somehow is taken to be true.

Just look at American politics as an example.

The only way it stops is when people continually have to correct the BULLS__T artists every time. THe price of freedom is vigilance.

doodyhead, mel and vinnie
Well said, Vinnie. Your observation leads to my only real problem with this ongoing "MacNuggets" thread (and some other threads on the Ledge as well), which is that a lot of writing from all over the web is presented here uncritically, with no regard as to whether it provides anything new or is just rehashing things we've seen a hundred times already, or - more importantly - whether it's even accurate factually. To me, if you're going to post things like the snippet that's been specifically discussed in the past few days, you owe it to people to not just re-post someone else's "bulls__t", as Vinnie puts it so well. And you should have enough knowledge about the subject not to post these items if you can't tell whether or not they are "bulls__t".

Sorry to anyone if they think that's harsh, but it's what I believe. As Vinnie also stated very well, "when a lie gets repeated over and over, it somehow is taken to be true." If we here at the Ledge are true fans of Fleetwood Mac and its members, we should be more careful so as to not spread lies about them.
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  #182  
Old 01-25-2011, 11:31 AM
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Wouter Vuijk Wouter Vuijk is offline
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Thanks Vinnie and Sharksfan.
These words came straight from my heart. just couldn't find a way to state it myself.
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  #183  
Old 01-27-2011, 07:17 AM
jeremy spencer jeremy spencer is offline
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Default Another rumour...

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Originally Posted by vivfox View Post
In 1977, Peter Green, who had earlier left Fleetwood Mac, was institutionalized after firing a pistol in the general direction of a delivery boy who was attempting to deliver a $30,000 royalty check. Green had renounced Rock and Roll in 1970 and didn't want the money. He later worked as a hospital porter and a gravedigger, but came back in 1979 to record "In the Skies", which did manage some moderate success. Worked out well for Fleetwood Mac as well....

http://collectingvinylrecords.blogsp...u-know_22.html
...that refuses to die, despite those of us who know and repeatedly attempt to refute it. Peter did not work as a gravedigger. He tended the flowers in the cemetry garden! A big difference imo, but that's not sensational enough is it?
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  #184  
Old 01-27-2011, 08:09 AM
Mario Mario is offline
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Originally Posted by jeremy spencer View Post
...that refuses to die, despite those of us who know and repeatedly attempt to refute it. Peter did not work as a gravedigger. He tended the flowers in the cemetry garden! A big difference imo, but that's not sensational enough is it?
Of course Jeremy, lies are always more sensational than the truth......
tha's is life......!

Mario.
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  #185  
Old 01-27-2011, 01:18 PM
dansven dansven is offline
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Originally Posted by sharksfan2000 View Post
...my only real problem with this ongoing "MacNuggets" thread (and some other threads on the Ledge as well), which is that a lot of writing from all over the web is presented here uncritically, with no regard as to whether it provides anything new or is just rehashing things we've seen a hundred times already, or - more importantly - whether it's even accurate factually.
Exactly!! My participation in this thread has been zero. I can't believe it has grown to 13 pages ... so much cut-and-paste bull**** from the web. It doesn't belong here.
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  #186  
Old 01-27-2011, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dansven View Post
Exactly!! My participation in this thread has been zero. I can't believe it has grown to 13 pages ... so much cut-and-paste bull**** from the web. It doesn't belong here.
Your participation counts as one now.

Cut and paste B.S.??? (He said rock and roll ballerina, where else would she go?)
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  #187  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:23 AM
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Default Vivfox can't touch this :-)

What a shock I received while watching a 1970 episode of "Doctor Who ; Spearhead from Space" on Netflix instant streaming. The scene of a doll production plant used a twenty second snippet of "Oh Well".
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  #188  
Old 01-28-2011, 07:56 PM
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ThePenguin ThePenguin is offline
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^
The point of the MacNuggets thread, which started in Rumours, was to have a "catch all" thread, in which FM media mentions that only have a derivative connection to the group could be posted. That way, Ledge members who were not interested in such trivial tidbits could simply skip the thread and the forum would not be clogged with such tangential fare.

I realize that the MacNuggets are not everyone's cup of tea. That's why they are confined to one place and you can just ignore the entire thread and concentrate on the topics containing more substantial FM material, which does interest you.
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  #189  
Old 01-29-2011, 07:27 AM
dino dino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePenguin View Post
^


I realize that the MacNuggets are not everyone's cup of tea. That's why they are confined to one place and you can just ignore the entire thread and concentrate on the topics containing more substantial FM material, which does interest you.
First, thanks for maintaining The Ledge.
The thread can easily be ignored yes, but it's bad when incorrect or offensive information is collected. Or links to illegal downloads. It amounts to little more then a "spam" thread.
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  #190  
Old 01-29-2011, 11:07 AM
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sharksfan2000 sharksfan2000 is offline
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Originally Posted by dino View Post
First, thanks for maintaining The Ledge.
The thread can easily be ignored yes, but it's bad when incorrect or offensive information is collected. Or links to illegal downloads. It amounts to little more then a "spam" thread.
Yes, thanks to The Penguin for keeping this site going, and for the MacNuggets explanation.

I agree with dino here - we do need to be more careful about what gets reposted from various sources on the web, both in this thread and in other ones. I want to take his comment a little further too. While there's no harm in presenting most of the bits and pieces of info that are reposted on this thread, spreading untrue information can be harmful. As people who are supposed to care about the band and its members, we should take greater care in seeing that this does not continue to happen, as with the "Peter Green fired a pistol in the direction of a delivery boy" post." If such a post is accompanied by a comment from whoever posts it that it's an example of these types of false rumors - or even just a note questioning whether such a claim is true or not - that's one thing. But to present it as fact, without such a comment or critique, serves only to further spread misinformation.

By analogy, there are plenty of crazy claims around the web that Stevie Nicks is a witch, yet I don't see those being reposted without comment on the Rumours MacNuggets thread - I found few posted at all, and those that I found were explicitly being held up for deserved ridicule. So why should we allow different treatment for pre-Rumours band members? Are they considered lesser members and not deserving of the same respect as Rumours-era members?

In this particular case, a number of people stepped in to set the record straight, but we can't always count on that happening. We all just need to be more respectful of all Fleetwood Mac members and see that we don't spread harmful and false information about them.
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  #191  
Old 01-29-2011, 02:45 PM
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ThePenguin ThePenguin is offline
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The fact that something is posted in this thread, with an attribution saying where it came from, does not mean it's posted as "fact." You can post an article or comment without adopting its content as true. So, blaming a poster for the false information in a statement that is not theirs is illogical.

If you see something that's untrue, then you can simply comment on it yourself.

That happens plenty of times in all of the threads here. It's not the sole obligation of the person who posted it.

There's incorrect information posted all of the time, from song names, dates, incorrect line ups to rumors that Stevie Nicks is not only a witch, but that she used a suppository for cocaine. When there's information that people disagree with, they respond with corrections or their own opinions.

Not everyone who posts information has as much knowledge about Peter Green as you do, so they can't post with explanatory comments in all situations. If you are suggesting that people only post in the thread if they are knowledgeable, that would make for better reading, indeed. However, it's not a rule I'm interested in implementing.

This is a discussion board. It's not a reference source. As an archive, it is intended to honor and preserve Fleetwood Mac memories in a way. However, only as a place where you can observe public conversations over time, not as an historical repository.

If I ever get enough time to update the biography section, then you can believe that I'm going to be concerned with upholding only truth and facts. But that is not the purpose of these community bulletin boards. And not everyone who participates in them has the same motivations or interests. Unfortunately, some of the material (perhaps most of the material) you'll find that others post is not what you would post yourself.

You can always participate by contradicting, correcting or amending any inaccuracies you see or, if it's just too annoying to sift through them, then I can perfectly understand that and think such threads are best avoided.
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  #192  
Old 01-29-2011, 03:48 PM
dino dino is offline
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Thanks for the nice and considered response.

The problem is really a clash of interests on this site...when Rumors fans enter pre-Rumors territory (and sometimes the opposite) . Pre-Rumors fans are in general into the music, not gossip and "lighter subjects" which characterize the Rumors pages ("OMG! What kind of shirt is Lindsey wearing???").

Last edited by dino : 01-29-2011 at 03:51 PM.
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  #193  
Old 01-29-2011, 04:02 PM
dansven dansven is offline
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It's good to have The Penguin here to participate in this "MacNuggets" issue.
The Ledge is a fantastic forum for discussion and information!

However, the idea of a "catch all" thread is not a good one, especially when this thread gives no explanation of being just that. IMO this thread breaks several of the rules of the "General Forum Usage - What Are The Rules For The Ledge" section.

"Unauthorized copyrighted material"
Illegal downloads.....

"No Attacks / Retaliation of any kind. Either against a member or group of members."
and
"Fan Fiction."
Several of the stories posted here I'm sure will be felt as both disrespectful and attacks by members of Fleetwood Mac. If we should post everything/anything we stumbled across the the web, certain members would be both hurt and displeased - and I don't need to mention any names... And I'm sorry to say this has already happened several times before in other threads too, by participants of the "MacNuggets" thread!!
A simple search on the web will give you tons of gossip, but it shouldn't be posted here uncritically. Some of it cathegorizes as simply "fan fiction".

Copies of comments at Youtube?? come on.
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  #194  
Old 01-29-2011, 04:08 PM
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sharksfan2000 sharksfan2000 is offline
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Thanks for the response, Penguin - that clarifies things a great deal. I know that not all internet forums operate with the same rules or expectations so it's helpful for you to explain things so clearly.

Of course there are inaccuracies in many posts, and I've been guilty of those as well and have been corrected. As you noted, that's all part of the value of a discussion board such as this one. I only meant to suggest that perhaps more care should be given when reposting stories about a person's negative words or actions that may be of questionable veracity - it should take only a moment or two of research on the web to find out whether such stories are likely to be true or not before posting them, with or without attached commentary.

I should probably just stay away from this thread since there's usually not much of interest for me here. But I must admit, the discussions that some of these reposted stories generate are illuminating and often quite entertaining!
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  #195  
Old 01-29-2011, 05:00 PM
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ThePenguin ThePenguin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansven View Post
"No Attacks / Retaliation of any kind. Either against a member or group of members."
That does not mean against members of Fleetwood Mac. It means against members of The Ledge: the posters here.

While trolls are not welcome, there is no prohibition against posting comments that may be derogatory towards a member of Fleetwood Mac.

Obviously, two Fleetwood Mac members have posted here. When they are here as Ledgies, If I see them being attacked by other Ledgies, I'll take action.

Unauthorized Downloads refers primarily to posting of music that's commercially available.

The thread violates none of the forum rules.

I do think that the point that a catch all thread is more appropiate for some forums than others is a valid one. This is a place where more serious musical discussion and appreciation takes place. So, it's no surprise that this particular thread is too fluffy for most people's taste. However, it's easy to skip and it's not going to be removed.

Last edited by ThePenguin : 01-30-2011 at 01:42 PM.
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