Ken Caillat's book...bits and tidbits

[holidayroad]

I still think a lot of the things that Lindsey did at the time were done under the influence of alcohol/marijuana/cocaine/ and maybe more. I'm sure plenty of people could tell you that they have seen people act certain ways when they are 'high' that they would never act if they were sober. I'm not saying it's okay to act that way. It would explain a lot, though.

Still, a lot of what gets said doesn't always make sense. Like David A said, if Lindsey is doing some of this in front of others, why was no one stopping him? Were they all too high to care? Why let him do just anything he wants?

I will say that even I could tell that Lindsey had a major ego in the past and I'm sure that, in some ways, Lindsey's biggest fan was Lindsey himself. I guess if I had done a huge amount of work on an album that was one of the best selling albums of all time, I might have been that way, too.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by holidayroad

Like David A said, if Lindsey is doing some of this in front of others, why was no one stopping him? Were they all too high to care? Why let him do just anything he wants?

I'm guessing being high had a lot to do with it. I also think that all the band members (not just Stevie and Lindsey), had huge egos and felt that no one could touch them in their insular Fleetwood Mac bubble. They could and did do whatever they wanted. It's not like Richard Dashut was going to rush out of the control room to Ken's aid when Lindsey attacked him. Everyone wanted to stay on the FM gravy train, not rock the boat too much, keep everything as cool as possible amidst the chaos and just finish the damn album! It's hard to believe people would sit idly by while someone was being attacked, but I really believe that the band members thought that certain rules didn't apply to them and everyone else around them just kind of fell in line. How else to explain such abhorrent behavior?

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by David A

Its just I wish LB would have been different, or how can I say, I dont know, maybe try and defend him self

Has he defended himself or confessed himself in any of his music?

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don't think it would, seeing as some people here said they didn't want to buy it if it had too much tech talk in it. They wanted something more gossipy. Plus, Ken said that he lost one book deal because it didn't have enough dirt in it. I think there was a legal dispute as to whether or not he had to return the royalty advance. So, a mere discussion of Rumours is not going to have books flying off the shelves.

For the record to those who aren't interested because it may be too inside baseball, I'm not technical AT ALL and I'm not a musician and still it didn't have too much tech talk for me. Ha, I even understood one thing and I was very proud of myself: You know how you are supposed to connect the speakers, so that the + - from the speakers matches the + - on the receiver? Well, if you don't do this things sound bad. I know this from setting up my own sound system at home. So, when Ken figured out that the speakers weren't phased and that's why the sound was so washed out at FM's tour, I felt, "Oh, gee I could have told you that!" I should be FM's next engineer.

Michele

I checked my speakers after I read that just to be sure. I had been having sound problems with no high ends showing..

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by holidayroad

I still think a lot of the things that Lindsey did at the time were done under the influence of alcohol/marijuana/cocaine/ and maybe more. I'm sure plenty of people could tell you that they have seen people act certain ways when they are 'high' that they would never act if they were sober. I'm not saying it's okay to act that way. It would explain a lot, though.

Very true. I think this had a lot to do with it. I believe, at heart, he's a good guy.

Originally Posted by starshine

I did also read Don Felders book about the Eagles. I like there music also but as people not so much anymore. I've liked Don Henley(his music) more than Glen Frey though. Can't stand Frey. Can't say I blame Felder for sueing them if they really tried to take 'all the $$' of course who knows really how much of the full true story we've gotten. I'm sure Frey/Henley will never speak about it. Walsh/Schmidt will keep there mouths shut cause well they are making some $$ but probably not the $$ that Frey/Henley make. They'll ride the gravey train til it ends. Plus they see what happended to Felder & don't want to go there.
Its disappointing when people we like aren't who we think they are.

I read Felder's book too and there were a lot of inaccuracies. A few of the fights he described having with Frey on certain dates were logistically impossible or contradicted in his promotional interviews. Just something to think about before you buy everything he's selling. Unlike others, he definitely has a motive to "exaggerate" - not only resentment from being fired, but acrimony due to the lawsuit.

That's the same reason I don't buy a lot of Carol Ann Harris' book. She arguably had an agenda against Lindsey. It's Caillat's book that gave me pause.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I checked my speakers after I read that just to be sure. I had been having sound problems with no high ends showing..

Well the reason is, that a speaker has "polarity". If it's wired backwards, it's "out of phase". And some speakers ARE wired backwards. In general, "red lugs" are used to indicate the positive terminal. However, for years, JBL used the black terminal for positive, no doubt screwing up many people's systems, who weren't aware to the "backwards" wiring. An insider trick for checking polarity on a speaker, is to take a 9volt battery, and connect the positive lug, to the positive lug on the speaker(and the negative to the negative)...the speaker should jump FORWARD...that indicates that you're connected to the positive jack. If the speaker "retracts", then the speaker is wired backwards.

How's that for too much tech info?

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

It's not like Richard Dashut was going to rush out of the control room to Ken's aid when Lindsey attacked him.

No one needed to rush out to Ken's aid. Ken saw him coming. The way he describes it, the minute he told Lindsey he had erased the last take, Lindsey got angry and began the approach. It was neither a sudden, nor a stealth strangle, which is what makes it seem completely ridiculous to me. I don't think no one did anything because they were high or uncaring. Ken writes that both Richard and Christine reminded Lindsey that he told Richard to erase the take and shouldn't be mad that Ken had done just that. It seems to me that no one bothered to stop the attack because they did not actually consider it a physical attack.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I checked my speakers after I read that just to be sure. I had been having sound problems with no high ends showing..

That was fun, because it's something even a layman can relate too.

Even though I didn't try the puzzle, it was also nice the way he laid out Rumours in the book, told us how many minutes we could have on each side and challenged us to arrange the tracks better than they had (and include Silver Springs) if we possibly could.

But even though 99% of the audio issues he described were quite beyond anything I'd ever encounter as a listener, I think he did a good job of explaining in plain terms, that left you with an understanding of both the resolutions he found and also the expertise, precision and talent that goes into the production of a record.

Michele

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I checked my speakers after I read that just to be sure. I had been having sound problems with no high ends showing..

Gasp! Did you blow your tweeters?

Originally Posted by shackin'up

I met him in 2008, I met a very pleasant, warm and genuinely interested man at ease and in balance. Not a cocky prick with control issues.

Same here. He was nothing but friendly.

[elle]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

I can only say that when I met him in 2008, I met a very pleasant, warm and genuinely interested man at ease and in balance. Not a cocky prick with control issues.

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

Same here. He was nothing but friendly.

for some more of this type of Lindsey encounters start at page 4 here http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showth...lindsey&page=4 (the thread is 11 pages). he was warm, friendly, and extremely attentive to each person at the spontaneous m&g they staged.

[Nico]

I understand that many of the things Lindsey is accused of doing in Ken's book are absolutely inexcusable. But I also would like to say that we are hearing/reading all this from these people who, apparently, are in connection with one another to some degree. Not that it means none of it happened, but even as I scanned through Ken's book- and I am buying it- I noticed how much Lindsey was brought up. Much of it was really very positive descriptions of his genius and many gifts. But the other stuff, well, seemed a little fueled by a purpose- to really make it clear that LB is a hard person to deal with and very unpleasant in real life.

The truth is, we don't know any of these people. Because Lindsey is the one being singled out most of the time does not mean he is the monster. I also once wished Linds would say something to sort of "explain" these things- particularly when CAH's book came out. But now I don't think it is necessary. Everyone is entitled to their life, their truth. Lindsey may have worked things out in his private life and he owes none of us any of those details. Because other people write about his wrongdoings in elaborate detail does not mean he has to explain it so.

Like Bee said many posts above, I also believe in change. I think the man Lindsey is now, the father and husband, is a testament to that. Obviously, he has come a long way. And even if only some of these things are true, or all, or none...he DID have issues. He still does. So does Stevie and Mick, John, etc. In order to get to the top of your game you have to sacrifice a lot. Sometimes it means being unpleasant as a means to get what you want. And, in this case, the art that Fleetwood Mac gave us would never have been just so had Lindsey been a sweet, complacent easygoing doll. Not that he'd be that way anyways.

I have met Lindsey several times. He is, honestly, the nicest, most approachable guy. He was gracious, accommodating, friendly, and very humble. I only have my own experiences to go by. And what I have witnessed of him is really an extremely brilliant man who is very passionate about his work, very generous to his fans, and truly a singular artist in terms of what he gives back to all those who come to his shows. I know he's imperfect. I don't hold him up on a pedestal. But he is a musical genius who had some very serious health and drug problems. The combination of all that can be a very challenging and even scary one to behold.

But I think Linds has come a LONG way, and maybe those cycles he is always talking about have deeper resonance to him than even we know. That's all I have.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

A controlfreak in an environment of chaos, drugs and equally big ego's can be a monster, I'm sure. It's nothing new to me; he has been an out of control character at times. I can only say that when I met him in 2008, I met a very pleasant, warm and genuinely interested man at ease and in balance. Not a cocky prick with control issues.

Lindsey in many ways sounds like the classic, almost stereotypical brilliant artist--- whether it's painters or musicians or filmmakers or whomever, throughout history there have always been these geniuses at some form of art who in some way "suffered" in getting their art out of their heads and into the world. As others have said, sometimes you have to be willing to be perceived as a jerk/prick/a-hole to some people to ensure that your vision gets communicated to your audience the way YOU want it to and not corrupted by others with a different agenda. Factor in the stress of perfectionism (and LB seems often his own worst critic, constantly tweaking and stressing over getting his music just right), emotional stress of working with an ex you still love to some degree, drugs, fame and adulation..... it's not wonder he was a bit of a mess (and Stevie and the rest too). The manifestation of whatever internal demons as physical violence against others of course takes it to a whole different level. It is fascinating to watch and talk about from afar, but I'm sure as hell glad I didn't have to experience it or live and work with it!

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Nico

The truth is, we don't know any of these people. Because Lindsey is the one being singled out most of the time does not mean he is the monster.

Certainly it doesn't. Lindsey's responsible for his own behavior, but not every decision the band ever made. Ken claims Lindsey is the reason the band didn't do interviews with Ken for this book. Lindsey is the reason the band didn't ask him or Richard to work on The Dance. Lindsey being jealous of the Rumours cover is the reason the band abandoned Herbie. Give me a break!

Stevie had her own friendship with Herbie. Even if Lindsey dictated that FM stop using him as its photographer, that would be no reason for Stevie to stop using him in her personal career on her own photo shoots and album covers. Clearly she and her people make photography decisions that have nothing to do with Lindsey, but in that book everything is Lindsey's fault.

As someone else pointed out, the very last sentence in the book is about Lindsey. The whole book is skewered in a rather hilarious fashion. Of course, it's still informative and entertaining. Just read it like you drive a car that's out of alignment: make the necessary adjustments to the steering wheel, if you really want to go straight.

Michele

[MrStevie]

Originally Posted by David A

I just finished Ken’s book, and I was somewhat startled, and baffled and confused. Keep in mind, I am a LB fan #1 and FM fan #2, I did read CAH’s book about her time with FM and LB, and the picture she painted of LB wasn’t all that flattering, but I decided to just squash it. But, after reading Ken’s book, it is amazing how many demons LB must have had back in the day. But, I am confused how to feel about him now.

. I mean, I guess one can say he is a human being and we all make mistakes, and that let’s face it, he never put himself out there to be a role model, and maybe I should stick to loving his music and not care to much what kind of person he was/is. But, I’ll admit, for the most part vie always admired the person he is, not so sure any more

. I would say that FM may be great musicians, but I’d say not such great people, after reading this book.
. I do think FM was never obligated to take care of these people that worked with them, I mean Loyalty is one thing and judging from this FM doesn’t have any, but as far as taking care of these people, that wasn’t their job or duty, if people were too busy smoking dope or too stupid to make sure that they weren’t paid, then that’s on them and not the band.
. It’s weird, LB never struck me as a guy who people would be afraid of, if he was choking ppl, and I was there, I would have jumped in, heck LB isn’t the Hulk, so I wonder why people never did that, or if he choked me, like he did Ken, I would have punched him square in the face. People seemed really scared of LB, and for the life of me, don’t know why
. I am not going to even try and rationalize him abusing people, it’s just not right, and I wonder if he still even knows what he did, and down the road, id hate for his kids to read these things about their father. Its one thing to read these things about someone you idolized, but to read them about your Father is another.
. I do tend to agree with Ken that for the most part, LB was an unhappy person, that is self inflicted, and I sure hope he is a happier person today
. It’s strange, as bad as LB may have been, I tend to think w/out him being assertive, and we would never have gotten what we did from the band, which is a strange trade off
. 1997 Dance Time, I always did wonder why FM didn’t work with Richard and Ken again, loyalty again, and I do think that it would have been nice of LB to include Richard
. I tend to think that LB isn’t the greatest friend per say, he strikes me, after reading many books, that he would be someone who would befriend you for his use and advantage, and then after time, would pull away. Out of sight, out of mind per say. Example, I’ve always wondered why LB never kept in touch or worked more with Richard, Ken, Ray Lindsey, etc. I guess what im saying, is LB doesn’t strike me as a good friend to have. Whereas Mick strikes me as someone who would never forget you or help you (if he could)
. Ken, in some ways, I think was a little harsh on LB, but then again, these stories have been re told by others, so it’s hard to find ways to defend LB
. At this point, since they are older, I tend to think that FM or LB doesn’t care what we think, and I guess they have earned that right.

Bottom line, it’s a little harder today, after reading this book, to admire LB the man, I still adore the Musician, but the man himself isn’t as pretty as I may have thought, and it’s a little sad, because I think he may have hurt a lot of people along the way, I really wish he would write a book, do a interview to defend himself, or work with some of his old partners again.

David

Man, oh man. You're saying everything I was thinking lately. I was a big fan of this man for years. Now, not so much. I had a ticket for SF next month. I gave it away last weekend. Enough is enough. Nasty trash talk has been going around about him for decades. It never concerned me much. People in bands are obnoxious, selfish and egotistical. Everbody says LB is an ahole. So?

I guess I'm thinking differently now. At first I thought Ken was a backstabbing ingrate because LB wouldn't throw him a bone. After thinking it over a few weeks I haven't changed my mind about Ken, but I have about LB because too many people say the same thing about his abusive nature and repeated violent behavior. Why? The only reason I can come up. Nobody likes the guy. Why? See question1.

You're right. He doesn't care what we think. It's not that I care he doesn't explain himself. What finally turned my appreciation of his genius to contempt is the fact that nobody comes to his defense. Nobody. Everyone in a position to know says the same thing or stays silent. People who do talk agree how bad this guy is. How nobody likes him.

One thing I can't shake. How people he's worked with or been friends with will only give him a pass when they need or want something from him. When there's no more to gain they trash him with no shame. It's been an ongoing pattern for years, and I can't ignore it anymore.

I wish my eyes were open sooner. I wasted a lot of years listening to his music and going to his concerts. It kinda makes me sick now.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by MrStevie

Man, oh man. You're saying everything I was thinking lately. I was a big fan of this man for years. Now, not so much. I had a ticket for SF next month. I gave it away last weekend. Enough is enough. Nasty trash talk has been going around about him for decades. It never concerned me much. People in bands are obnoxious, selfish and egotistical. Everbody says LB is an ahole. So?

I guess I'm thinking differently now. At first I thought Ken was a backstabbing ingrate because LB wouldn't throw him a bone. After thinking it over a few weeks I haven't changed my mind about Ken, but I have about LB because too many people say the same thing about his abusive nature and repeated violent behavior. Why? The only reason I can come up. Nobody likes the guy. Why? See question1.

You're right. He doesn't care what we think. It's not that I care he doesn't explain himself. What finally turned my appreciation of his genius to contempt is the fact that nobody comes to his defense. Nobody. Everyone in a position to know says the same thing or stays silent. People who do talk agree how bad this guy is. How nobody likes him.

One thing I can't shake. How people he's worked with or been friends with will only give him a pass when they need or want something from him. When there's no more to gain they trash him with no shame. It's been an ongoing pattern for years, and I can't ignore it anymore.

I wish my eyes were open sooner. I wasted a lot of years listening to his music and going to his concerts. It kinda makes me sick now.

It doesn't seem to me that any of these people are perfect. The pressure was on Lindsey. Anger came out in certain ways. There is no justifying it. It seems like he is a real passionate person and takes things all the way - his music, maybe his loves. When those thing don't work out he strikes out.