New album?

[Fleetwoodmark]

Yeah. As much as I love SYW it is too disconnected. From What's the world coming to ---- Murrow turning in his grave. It doesn't flow.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by Fleetwoodmark

Yeah. As much as I love SYW it is too disconnected. From What's the world coming to ---- Murrow turning in his grave. It doesn't flow.

Exactly. I just hope they don't bow out with Say You Will being their final effort. There are some great songs, but I don't even know if I can call it an album with a straight face. There was seemingly no collaboration. It seems everyone was so spoiled, and egos were so big that they all couldn't just walk into a room TOGETHER, and flesh out songs, and craft and ALBUM. They all clearly came to the table with finished or nearly finished work, they barely seemed to interact, and the finished product just sounds like a mish mash of songs that have no place sitting beside each other.

I really don't know if there is another Mac album on the horizon at this point. There absolutely will be more touring. They may even tour for another decade (who knows, maybe longer). They've pretty much all clearly stated to the media that they weren't pleased with the end product of Say You Will. But I don't know if they can all truly swallow their personal issues, histories, and egos to make one last album. I hope they do... I truly hope they do. I agree, an outside producer is the way to go. The key would to be find a fine balance between Stevie's and Lindsey's sensibilities. Lindsey will want someone more progressive and "now," and Stevie will want someone more established and classic. I just don't know if it could really happen at this point without Christine. I think she was the moderating, mediating force between parties, and she's been gone for a dozen years now. A new album would be a WONDERFUL surprise, but I'm not expecting it at all at this point. Even if they did decide to record one, it would be well into late 2011 before we ever saw it, at the VERY earliest.

[Fleetwoodmark]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Exactly. I just hope they don't bow out with Say You Will being their final effort. There are some great songs, but I don't even know if I can call it an album with a straight face. There was seemingly no collaboration. It seems everyone was so spoiled, and egos were so big that they all couldn't just walk into a room TOGETHER, and flesh out songs, and craft and ALBUM. They all clearly came to the table with finished or nearly finished work, they barely seemed to interact, and the finished product just sounds like a mish mash of songs that have no place sitting beside each other.

I really don't know if there is another Mac album on the horizon at this point. There absolutely will be more touring. They may even tour for another decade (who knows, maybe longer). They've pretty much all clearly stated to the media that they weren't pleased with the end product of Say You Will. But I don't know if they can all truly swallow their personal issues, histories, and egos to make one last album. I hope they do... I truly hope they do. I agree, an outside producer is the way to go. The key would to be find a fine balance between Stevie's and Lindsey's sensibilities. Lindsey will want someone more progressive and "now," and Stevie will want someone more established and classic. I just don't know if it could really happen at this point without Christine. I think she was the moderating, mediating force between parties, and she's been gone for a dozen years now. A new album would be a WONDERFUL surprise, but I'm not expecting it at all at this point. Even if they did decide to record one, it would be well into late 2011 before we ever saw it, at the VERY earliest.

Great post.

I totally agree, When Christine left I think there was in Stevie & Lindsey 2 polar opposites in terms of what an album should be. I question some of Lindsey's production techniques on SYW (ie Murrow, Say Goodbye). These would have been more at home on one of his more esoteric solo works. He has to realise that Fleetwood Mac is a commercial venture and should remain so, As their best work was created with this in mind (Rumours, Tango).

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by Fleetwoodmark

Great post.

I totally agree, When Christine left I think there was in Stevie & Lindsey 2 polar opposites in terms of what an album should be. I question some of Lindsey's production techniques on SYW (ie Murrow, Say Goodbye). These would have been more at home on one of his more esoteric solo works. He has to realise that Fleetwood Mac is a commercial venture and should remain so, As their best work was created with this in mind (Rumours, Tango).

Hmm... yes and no. I agree that Rumours and Tango were the Rumours crew's best, most approachable, highest quality albums. You could say they're probably the best balance between innovation and commercialism. They probably strayed a little too far left with Tusk in regards to creativity... and did a hard knee jerk back towards commercialism with Mirage. I suspect artistic turmoil was a big part of making Rumours and Tango so great too. Do they have that kind of fire left? And if so, can it still be channeled into MUSIC? I have my doubts. I think there are too many distractions for the band members now... spouses, kids, health issues, age, histories, etc. They're all just spoiled old rock stars with conflicting runaway egos, and I don't know if there is any getting around that at this point. Lindsey's and Stevie's last albums are arguably the best of their entire careers... but can they transition that into one last amazing Mac album? I just don't know if they can go do it without Christine being there to keep everyone in line.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by Fleetwoodmark

Great post.

I totally agree, When Christine left I think there was in Stevie & Lindsey 2 polar opposites in terms of what an album should be. I question some of Lindsey's production techniques on SYW (ie Murrow, Say Goodbye). These would have been more at home on one of his more esoteric solo works. He has to realise that Fleetwood Mac is a commercial venture and should remain so, As their best work was created with this in mind (Rumours, Tango).

I don't believe that Christine was any sort of a bridge between SnL. To me, all their albums sound as disconnected as SYW, only with 3 directions instead of two. I don't mind it, but only the first two albums felt like they had any sort of "meshing" whatsoever. But, overall, I still feel like I am hearing 3 separate solo artists, save for a handful of songs where the collaboration was there or they at least had more equal parts musically and vocally.

Honestly, we don't REALLY know how much discussion went on for SYW anyway. I would bet money that Stevie was just fine letting LB do all the prep work prior to her arrival to work on the tracks. For instance, he asked her about cutting the guitar solo in half on TD and she was cool with it.

Regardless, there are tracks on SYW where the two of them together still blow me away both with LB's guitar work on her songs (RTTG) and her vocals on his songs (Miranda, SG, WTWCT) and vice versa (Illume, TD). Almost a nice BN follow up. Almost...

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

I don't believe that Christine was any sort of a bridge between SnL. ...

Well, I think she was a bridge, but not a bridge when it came to Lindsey's contributions to Stevie's songs. I don't think Christine being there kept him from doing what he wanted on those songs (Gypsy, Dreams, etc.)

Lindsey and Stevie working together (as we saw on those making of Angel video clips), from the ground up would do more to make their songs sound more collaborative.

Michele

[Musicman408]

Great topic of discussion. Honestly I could see this one going both ways. BUT I really do think they will put out a new album in the future. I surely would love one since neither the Mac or Stevie has released a new materials album since I've been a fan, and I would like to get that experience at least once.

Pretty sure they will continue to tour as well!

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Well, I think she was a bridge, but not a bridge when it came to Lindsey's contributions to Stevie's songs. I don't think Christine being there kept him from doing what he wanted on those songs (Gypsy, Dreams, etc.)

Lindsey and Stevie working together (as we saw on those making of Angel video clips), from the ground up would do more to make their songs sound more collaborative.

Michele

True, it would be great for a ground up collaboration.

In what way do you think Christine was a bridge though? Musically or politically?

[daniellaaarisen]

Originally Posted by The Chain

I just hope, if there is a new project, it's a little more collaborative in spirit.

I think it will be, to be honest. The Dance only partially reunited them-- the chemistry was revived but only applied to old, classic songs. There's a big difference between creating music and playing music; at the beginning of Say You Will, those four people had not created music together in 15 years. Plus, both Lindsey and Stevie went into the recording of SYW with recent successes in their solo careers and that mentality carried into the studio.

Now, they've spent the past few years very united as a band. Although Lindsey and Stevie have both maintained their solo careers, they now have the band at the forefront of their minds because its been their main professional focus.

I think we will have a better, more well-rounded album in the future-- as long as it is not put on pause for solo work. If we get a bunch of leftovers from solo albums like we did on SYW, the disconnection will continue.

Hopefully, Lindsey will realize that he can still be experimental and have artistic merit while still considering the band. Hopefully, Stevie will adapt to it and maybe use some of Lindsey's mindset to add to her own work.

There's no doubt in my mind that we could get a seriously great record. I just don't want the band looking at SYW like they did at Tusk and making a commercial album to follow it, hoping for a better result. At this point, anything too commercial might just sound old.

[LukeA]

Originally Posted by Fleetwoodmark

Yeah. As much as I love SYW it is too disconnected. From What's the world coming to ---- Murrow turning in his grave. It doesn't flow.

Yes, the sequencing was horrible. Its not that hard to place similarly sounding songs in a specific order to make them flow... although Stevie likes to suggest its a rare talent she's proud to possess (see: Rumours) Probably another reason why she's still pouty about the SYW experience.

But, anyhoo, WTWCT was probably the right choice for Track 1, but Murrow is too jarring to be Track 2. I bet it turned off many of the casual fans who bought the album.

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by LukeA

Yes, the sequencing was horrible. Its not that hard to place similarly sounding songs in a specific order to make them flow... although Stevie likes to suggest its a rare talent she's proud to possess (see: Rumours) Probably another reason why she's still pouty about the SYW experience.

But, anyhoo, WTWCT was probably the right choice for Track 1, but Murrow is too jarring to be Track 2. I bet it turned off many of the casual fans who bought the album.

It's all a matter of opinion Luke. To me Murrow was Lindsey's best track on the album. Having it as the second song greatly reminded me of his song The Ledge being the 2nd track on the Tusk album which was performed right after a slow, soothing Over & Over. It worked there and it works here as far as I'm concerned. Also I doubt any casual fans are interested in new music by Fleetwood Mac. They only want to hear the hits.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

I don't believe that Christine was any sort of a bridge between SnL. To me, all their albums sound as disconnected as SYW, only with 3 directions instead of two. I don't mind it, but only the first two albums felt like they had any sort of "meshing" whatsoever. But, overall, I still feel like I am hearing 3 separate solo artists, save for a handful of songs where the collaboration was there or they at least had more equal parts musically and vocally.

Honestly, we don't REALLY know how much discussion went on for SYW anyway. I would bet money that Stevie was just fine letting LB do all the prep work prior to her arrival to work on the tracks. For instance, he asked her about cutting the guitar solo in half on TD and she was cool with it.

Regardless, there are tracks on SYW where the two of them together still blow me away both with LB's guitar work on her songs (RTTG) and her vocals on his songs (Miranda, SG, WTWCT) and vice versa (Illume, TD). Almost a nice BN follow up. Almost...

Stevie has stated before that Chris was the "glue" that held FM together, the moderator and fairy godmother so to speak. I don't think she took a lot of crap from Stevie or Lindsey. I definitely agree that the three songwriters had vastly different aesthetics, but there was still some sort of common ground that made their songs hang together. Maybe it was the luscious harmonies with Chris that was the common thread. All of the songs on Say You Will just seemed to be far more independent efforts.

Regarding the Mac recording process, I think Stevie was absolutely very used to handing over reasonably rough versions of her songs to Lindsey, and him "making them into magic" as she states it. I really think it kinda backfired with Say You Will... I think it's the first time she's gone to the press and named specifics about her dissatisfaction. Watching the Destiny Rules documentary, she really came to the plate with fairly finished songs too to be honest. Lindsey for the most part just polished them up. Add that to the fact that the overwhelming majority of Lindsey's songs were absolute 100% carbon copies of the Gift Of Screws tracks that had been floating around for nearly a decade in the Mac community, and it just doesn't seem like either were particularly interested in making Say You Will a truly group effort.

[StreetAngel86]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

They'll record. With a producer. If they want to make one last big artistic statement, I recommend Jack White.

er....Katey Sagal's ex husband?

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by daniellaaarisen

I think it will be, to be honest. The Dance only partially reunited them-- the chemistry was revived but only applied to old, classic songs. There's a big difference between creating music and playing music; at the beginning of Say You Will, those four people had not created music together in 15 years. Plus, both Lindsey and Stevie went into the recording of SYW with recent successes in their solo careers and that mentality carried into the studio.

Now, they've spent the past few years very united as a band. Although Lindsey and Stevie have both maintained their solo careers, they now have the band at the forefront of their minds because its been their main focus.

I think we will have a better, more well-rounded album in the future-- as long as it is not put on pause for solo work. If we get a bunch of leftovers from solo albums like we did on SYW, the disconnection will continue.

Hopefully, Lindsey will realize that he can still be experimental and have artistic merit while still considering the band. Hopefully, Stevie will adapt to it and maybe use some of Lindsey's mindset to add to her own work.

There's no doubt in my mind that we could get a seriously great record. I just don't want the band looking at SYW like they did at Tusk and making a commercial album to follow it, hoping for a better result. At this point, anything too commercial might just sound old.

Great post. I 100% agree, I think there is certainly a great possibility that the kids could still record the best material of their careers. I truly hope it happens, it seems all the parties have honed their crafts to a deadly precision after decades and decades in the biz. I think the key is everyone coming to the plate cleanly, without motives, with egos checked at the door, with a positive work ethic, and with an outside producer who is willing to get up to his or her neck in quicksand. I've been a rabid fan since '93, and if the past 16 years has taught me anything, you NEVER know what these kids will do next! I do think it could happen. Stevie's last album was arguably the best of her career, and definitely amongst the most progressive of her solo works. Lindsey's last album is also arguably the best of his career, and it seems after 30 years, that he's FINALLY figured out how to blend progression with approachability. Add to the fact that both their albums and the last Mac album were all the poorest selling of their respective careers, and maybe they'll come to the table more humble this time around. Maybe the kids ARE on a more similar plane now than we give them credit for!

[daniellaaarisen]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Great post.

Why thank you

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

I think the key is everyone coming to the plate cleanly, without motives, with egos checked at the door, with a positive work ethic, and with an outside producer who is willing to get up to his or her neck in quicksand.

Agreed. Their only motive needs to be derived from a universal goal as a band-- create music as a band without killing one another before its release. We don't want another Tango In the Night situation.

Plus, if Lindsey doesn't produce, there will be someone there to speak to him from a voice of authority and help draw the creative line without supressing him too much. With an outside producer, balance could be found.

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Add to the fact that both their albums and the last Mac album were all the poorest selling of their respective careers, and maybe they'll come to the table more humble this time around. Maybe the kids ARE on a more similar plane now than we give them credit for!

I thought Trouble in Shangri-La sold pretty well in comparison to her other later solo albums?

________________________________

On a side note, it just occurred to me that a lot of Stevie's Trouble in Shangri-La tracks probably would have molded to Lindsey's tracks a little better. Some were less traditional but still carried a sense of commercialism. Yet to me, TISL is a total solo album, and it carries no Fleetwood Mac undertones. So that combination (TISL-type tracks on SYW) would have either redefined Mac or made the barrier between the two songwriters even more prominent.

Interesting.