Which Christine McVie song from Tusk is your favorite?

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

LOL, keep telling yourself that. The highest charting hit was released two or three weeks after he left and it topped MTV’s Top 20 videos two weeks in a row. Yep. Nothing to do with the drama. Purely coincidental.

OMG I thought jwd was joking but you really believe this?
When I first played Tango, Little Lies was so obvious it was going to be a huge hit that they placed it first song side 2 where back in those days the lead singles usually went.
Little Lies was the most radio friendly song on the album. Big Love was not an adult contemporary song (that radio was big in the 80s). Little Lies dominated that chart as well. Christine always churned out big hits.
I guess by your philosophy, Hold Me was a huge hit because people were more interested in Mirage because of Bella Donna

Lindsey leaving had NOTHING to do with the release of singles from Tango. It came from the deadline to agree to start tour rehearsals which he bailed. If you really think this was coordinated, then they would have released Family Man or a Lindsey song. It was Christine's turn at a single. None of what you say makes any sense

[elle]

amusing to come here in the thread that has nothing to do with it, to read how some people keep twisting themselves into pretzels to find various completely non-sensical ways to justify what happened in 2018 and push the false narrative that Stevie = saint, Lindsey = bad, in 1000s of different ways.

because if you make up things and then say them over and over and over and over, they just might start being perceived as truths no matter how removed from the reality they may be.


sure, Lindsey leaving in 1987 was what made Little Lies go through stratosphere of popularity . even though FM actual fans had no clue and went to the shows on that tour expecting to see Lindsey there. and Christine's amazing hook-writing skills had absolutely nothing to do with it.

that said, Little Lies on 2014-15 and then even more on 2017 tours?? R O C K I N G!!!!! loved that we had a chance to actually hear it live with Lindsey.

[UnwindedDreams]

^I am sensing that the person might be in need of therapy and I will pray for them. May they find joy at a Crowded House concert in a H.O.B.

[aleuzzi]

Look at the the thread title and then look at where the discussion has turned. I initially resurrected this old thread a few weeks back because, well, I really love Christine’s TUSK songs. All of them.

But to the matter of whether or not Lindsey could have been successful and even famous without Stevie, I’d say yes. At the very least, he would have carved out a niche for himself as a much-prized studio musician and arranger.

Now back to Christine, maybe?

Oh—and happy new year!

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

OMG I thought jwd was joking but you really believe this?

I finally bought TITN (first Fleetwood Mac album for me) around the time Lindsey quit. I’d been paying attention since Big Love was released. There was absolutely a curiosity about what was going on with the band. It was THE story. Lindsey was out and they had a new lineup getting ready to hit the road.

Question for you: Do you think Big Love benefited from being the first single from the first Fleetwood Mac album in five years, complete with a cool video? Like, would it have hit #5 if Lindsey had released it as a solo artist?

There was a distinct curiosity factor that surrounded Fleetwood Mac in 1987 that benefited the sales beyond just the music.

I guess by your philosophy, Hold Me was a huge hit because people were more interested in Mirage because of Bella Donna

Huh? Belladonna had nothing to do with Mirage. They were two separate projects.

Lindsey quit the band when they were promoting an album and the single released weeks later was the biggest one and album sales started going up. And, I read somewhere that more copies were sold after Lindsey quit than before.

Lindsey leaving had NOTHING to do with the release of singles from Tango.

Didn’t suggest it did.

If you really think this was coordinated,

I didn’t say or imply it was coordinated. I was clearly saying that sales benefited from the freak show that was going on.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Look at the the thread title and then look at where the discussion has turned. I initially resurrected this old thread a few weeks back because, well, I really love Christine’s TUSK songs. All of them.

But to the matter of whether or not Lindsey could have been successful and even famous without Stevie, I’d say yes. At the very least, he would have carved out a niche for himself as a much-prized studio musician and arranger.

Now back to Christine, maybe?

Oh—and happy new year!

Think About Me is a great song and I was then and am now very surprised it didn't do better on the charts. It's fabulous.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by elle

amusing to come here in the thread that has nothing to do with it, to read how some people keep twisting themselves into pretzels to find various completely non-sensical ways to justify what happened in 2018 and push the false narrative that Stevie = saint, Lindsey = bad, in 1000s of different ways.

Wow, that’s laying it on pretty thick, even by your standards. Nobody said Stevie saint, Lindsey bad.

because if you make up things and then say them over and over and over and over, they just might start being perceived as truths no matter how removed from the reality they may be.

Like “Lindsey made them superstars?”

sure, Lindsey leaving in 1987 was what made Little Lies go through stratosphere of popularity . even though FM actual fans had no clue and went to the shows on that tour expecting to see Lindsey there. and Christine's amazing hook-writing skills had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Elle, when did you become a fan?

You couldn’t escape the story in 1987. MTV mentioned it almost every time they played LL. Nobody was expecting to see Lindsey. They played clips from the press conference announcing Billy and Rick all the time.

[michelej1]

I don’t care how publicized something is in the musical industry, most fans at arena sized FM concerts know nothing about it. There are casual fans and focused fans and focused fans probably make up less than 20% of album and ticket sales.

I am sure that you guys experience that even now. There are things that we talk about nonstop that you mention to your outside friends and they have no idea. They know who Fleetwood Mac is. They can sing along to the hits. But they don’t pay attention to the inside gossip. They don’t know when Lindsey left. They don’t know when he returned. They don’t know when he left again. They don’t know when Christine left. They don’t know when she returned. If they want to know anything about the band, they ask you. But mostly they don’t want to know. They don’t care.

To say everyone who bought Tango or went to a Tango concert did it because they were curious about Billy and Rick or the drama of Lindsey leaving is silly. And I’ve been a focused fan since 1979. I was paying attention when it happened. People knew, but I wouldn’t say the majority did.

I went to an FM meet and greet once and before the show they gave us a little gift bag, they gave us time to buy merchandise and then they gave us an opportunity to win a prize. We had to answer questions about the band. I got all the questions right and everyone else got about five right answers tops. They had paid over $1000 a person to attend the meet and greet, but they were still only casual Fleetwood Mac fans. They didn’t know the band history.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don’t care how publicized something is in the musical industry, most fans at arena sized FM concerts know nothing about it. There are casual fans and focused fans and focused fans probably make up less than 20% of album and ticket sales.

I am sure that you guys experience that even now. There are things that we talk about nonstop that you mention to your outside friends and they have no idea. They know who Fleetwood Mac is. They can sing along to the hits. But they don’t pay attention to the inside gossip. They don’t know when Lindsey left. They don’t know when he returned. They don’t know when he left again. They don’t know when Christine left. They don’t know when she returned. If they want to know anything about the band, they ask you. But mostly they don’t want to know. They don’t care.

To say everyone who bought Tango or went to a Tango concert did it because they were curious about Billy and Rick or the drama of Lindsey leaving is silly. And I’ve been a focused fan since 1979. I was paying attention when it happened. People knew, but I wouldn’t say the majority did.

I went to an FM meet and greet once and before the show they gave us a little gift bag, they gave us time to buy merchandise and then they gave us an opportunity to win a prize. We had to answer questions about the band. I got all the questions right and everyone else got about five right answers tops. They had paid over $1000 a person to attend the meet and greet, but they were still only casual Fleetwood Mac fans. They didn’t know the band history.

I respectfully call BS.

I bought TITN, my first Fleetwood Mac album, sometime in late July/early August and was 13 at the time. If I was very aware of Lindsey leaving before I was familiar with “Fleetwood Mac” or “Rumours,” I guarantee you that people dropping money on tickets also knew.

You keep trying to pull this “casual fan” card on Fleetwood Mac (at least the Rumours band) as if it’s not one of the biggest selling bands ever. Why was the OWTS tour much bigger than the 2013 tour? How do you explain that?

Of course Lindsey leaving was a huge story in 1987, just as the return of Lindsey and Stevie were the whole point of the 1997 tour.

I almost went to opening night in 2013 for $35. That price went bye-bye the moment Christine returned. But, yeah, nobody noticed the difference.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Why was the OWTS tour much bigger than the 2013 tour? How do you explain that?

I almost went to opening night in 2013 for $35. That price went bye-bye the moment Christine returned. But, yeah, nobody noticed the difference.

Was the $35 ticket being sold through the show via Ticketmaster or was ot resale?

I bought my 6th row Philly tickets for $250 each on StubHub and my 3rd row DC seats from Ticketmaster for $375... it was under $400. $250 for Jones Beach sixth row.

The 2013 Tour was not a tour that lost money or failed. Before the tour started, there was an Extra interview where they talked about it selling out, Mick thanked Stevie for her "witchery". They headlined Jazz Fest. 3 nights were booked at The o2.
Stevie had just toured the year before too. I did all her NYC Metro shows that year and the only one that was packed was Beacon. It was one of my favorite concerts.
So the ticketbuying public could have been exhausted with Stevie's strong touring presence from early 2011 to late 2012. But they weren't.

I think FM becoming more popular than they were 03-09 years (which still had sold out shows in places like MSG and MGM in Vegas, though the June 2009 MSG show sold bad) started the Glee "FM" episode. Back in 2011, Glee was ginormous. Remember Glee got Rumours charting again. I don't think it's left the Billboard 200 for a while.
Stevie did help bring attention to FM too by doing The Voice, America's Got Talent, and American Idol. A lot of young people discovered FM.
Christine was the hot product for selling the 2014 Tour along with the surge that FM was having.
Over 2 years later from OWTS, they (I think) sold out Shea with ridiculous prices $500 for 20th row. It did look sold out.
Fleetwood Mac has had a crazy popularity rise since 2011.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Was the $35 ticket being sold through the show via Ticketmaster or was ot resale?

Probably Stub Hub. That said, I also got my 2014 and 2018 tickets that way and didn’t pay less than $120. And, that’s nosebleeds, last row central in one show.

The 2013 Tour was not a tour that lost money or failed.

Still, it paled in comparison to the 2014 tour.

Christine was the hot product for selling the 2014 Tour along with the surge that FM was having.

EXACTLY my point! People, even casual fans, understood when Christine came back. That was a huge moment for the band, and demand for tickets certainly corresponded with that.

Over 2 years later from OWTS, they (I think) sold out Shea with ridiculous prices $500 for 20th row. It did look sold out.
Fleetwood Mac has had a crazy popularity rise since 2011.

As a fan from 1987, I’d say since The Dance. Those shows may have brought in a new generation, but they’ve been exclusively arena/large amphitheater rock since 1997. I was around for the lean times for Fleetwood Mac and Lindsey (avoided Stevie like the plague...well, at least for someone serious about avoiding a plague) between 1991-96. I was/am a staunch Bekka Bramlett fan.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Still, it paled in comparison to the 2014 tour.

Still, Live 2013 was greatly successful. Mick was going on about what great business they were doing and how they were outselling the Stones 50 Years & Counting Tour. Azoff said it was the best business the band had done in 25 years. But they did also announce the Live 2013 Tour by saying they were following the sold out Unleashed Tour...not true
OWTS was enormous. I don't think every show was a sellout but they did do a ton more shows than 2013 and multinight runs. It was a solid show. Especially when Think About Me and Bleed to Love Her came back.

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

EXACTLY my point! People, even casual fans, understood when Christine came back. That was a huge moment for the band, and demand for tickets certainly corresponded with that.

They did have major major press for OWTS. I watched the Today show announcement.

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

As a fan from 1987, I’d say since The Dance.

I'm going to stick with Glee and I'll add American Horror Story too for the enhanced interest. The mass tv audience helped the band and it helped Stevie too. 03-09 they could draw crowds but not all markets so I feel 2011 was the Resurrection.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I respectfully call BS.

I bought TITN, my first Fleetwood Mac album, sometime in late July/early August and was 13 at the time. If I was very aware of Lindsey leaving before I was familiar with “Fleetwood Mac” or “Rumours,” I guarantee you that people dropping money on tickets also knew.

You keep trying to pull this “casual fan” card on Fleetwood Mac (at least the Rumours band) as if it’s not one of the biggest selling bands ever. Why was the OWTS tour much bigger than the 2013 tour? How do you explain that?

Of course Lindsey leaving was a huge story in 1987, just as the return of Lindsey and Stevie were the whole point of the 1997 tour.

I almost went to opening night in 2013 for $35. That price went bye-bye the moment Christine returned. But, yeah, nobody noticed the difference.

Of course Fleetwood Mac is popular. To say that the bulk of their fans are “casual” is not to deny their popularity. In fact it is to corroborate it. It is when you cross over and seep into the consciousness of the main stream public at large that you become a massive band. But buying a concert ticket does not mean that everyone is intimately familiar with an entertainment act. If you like music, if you like top 10 hits, then you buy a ticket for best selling acts. It doesn’t mean you know about the personal drama going on behind the scenes. Look at all the records that Abba has sold. Do you think I know one single thing about any of the members of Abba? I do not. I know all of their songs though. I have seen both Mamma Mia movies.I don’t know who is in that band. I think it’s two men and two women. That is all I know. That is all I’ve ever known. Wanting to hear their songs live has nothing to do with wanting to know what is going on with the band internally.

If there are 15,000 people at a concert, not all of them watch the news updates on MTV. Heck, if Lindsey leaving the band made such big news back then, I’m surprised Elle didn’t find out about it and become a fan at that time. You really over inflate the pervasiveness of this “news“.

Everyone knows that John Lennon was fatally shot. That impacted the sales of Double Fantasy. But Tango propelled to stellar sales because the world learned Lindsey left? Not so much. Also, this drama that you mentioned . . . it is mostly only known to us. Please ask someone who is not on a Fleetwood Mac bulletin board what happened when Lindsey left the band in 1987. They wonÂ’t have a clue. No one knows about the fight at ChristineÂ’s house except us and, um, Martha Quinn.

Record buyers are not the same people who voraciously read articles about a specific band in Rolling Stone, for the most part.

Also, I think you just thought of this idea right now because in all these years you never proffered it before. I think it wouldÂ’ve come up in conversation in the past.HavenÂ’t we all discussed everything 200 times already?

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Still, Live 2013 was greatly successful.

Didn’t say it wasn’t, but not really the point. My comment was about Michelle’s notion in late 2013/early 2014 that nobody would notice the difference if Christine returned and that what became the OWTS tour would be a failure because of how close it was to the Unleashed tour. In other words, that casual fans wouldn’t care enough to notice whether not a key member, the primary hit songwriter no less, was in the band. Of course they knew. OWTS was a much bigger tour.

I'm going to stick with Glee and I'll add American Horror Story too for the enhanced interest.

Enhanced, absolutely. However, Fleetwood Mac would still have been an arena rock band.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by michelej1

It is when you cross over and seep into the consciousness of the main stream public at large that you become a massive band. But buying a concert ticket does not mean that everyone is intimately familiar with an entertainment act.

I’m not a fan of Van Halen. I don’t own any of their albums. However, I’d probably know wether or not I was going to see Sammy or Dave before the show.

Look at all the records that Abba has sold. Do you think I know one single thing about any of the members of Abba? I do not.

Abba isn’t one of the top 50 selling artists of all time. Fleetwood Mac is 21 and has a twice member of the Hall of Fame.

I’m surprised Elle didn’t find out about it and become a fan at that time. You really over inflate the pervasiveness of this “news.”

Elle only became a fan in 2006, if I’m not mistaken.

But Tango propelled to stellar sales because the world learned Lindsey left? Not so much.

Except it reportedly sold more copies after Lindsey left than before.

Also, this drama that you mentioned . . . it is mostly only known to us. Please ask someone who is not on a Fleetwood Mac bulletin board what happened when Lindsey left the band in 1987. They wonÂ’t have a clue.

Today, random, anecdotal person who might not have been alive at the time won’t know, but Fleetwood Mac concert goers in 1987 knew.