Say You Will

[elle]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

It was mentioned in the lawsuit papers. I don’t recall if it was ever mentioned who spearheaded that idea, but apparently Lindsey was against the idea.

yes. plus there were leaks from the band about that around that time. Mick and Stevie only relented not replacing John once they were informed insurance will cover their pulling out of Australia dates.

before that, Lindsey was the only one holding the line, that they should not tour without John.

so i guess since that time, John was well aware Mick and Stevie will throw him under the bus, if needed. maybe that's why people blame not stopping Lindsey ouster more on Christine. but - without John, Christine and Lindsey all there, with just Mick and Stevie, how successful would they be in selling the band as Fleetwood Mac? who knows? they have a great PR machine behind them when they need it.

[UnwindedDreams]

I guess they could've had Al Ortiz do the Fall 2013 Tour. He even sang backup Gypsy and Rhiannon on the 24K Tour
I think Ron Blair sang backup vocals sometimes in Heartbreakers shows.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by elle

yes. plus there were leaks from the band about that around that time. Mick and Stevie only relented not replacing John once they were informed insurance will cover their pulling out of Australia dates.

before that, Lindsey was the only one holding the line, that they should not tour without John.

so i guess since that time, John was well aware Mick and Stevie will throw him under the bus, if needed. maybe that's why people blame not stopping Lindsey ouster more on Christine. but - without John, Christine and Lindsey all there, with just Mick and Stevie, how successful would they be in selling the band as Fleetwood Mac? who knows? they have a great PR machine behind them when they need it.

It would have only been a temporary, contractual obligation move. I’m sure John would have been fine with it. Plus, I seem to recall everyone thinking it was cool when Steve filled in for Mick after he got sick mid-show.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

I guess they could've had Al Ortiz do the Fall 2013 Tour. He even sang backup Gypsy and Rhiannon on the 24K Tour
I think Ron Blair sang backup vocals sometimes in Heartbreakers shows.

Nah. George Hawkins. He worked with Mick, Christine, and Lindsey, sang harmonies on John’s album, and sang Stevie’s parts on “Whenever I Call You Friend” when he was working for Kenny Loggins. Then again, I’m not sure he himself wasn’t sick by that point.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by elle

yes. plus there were leaks from the band about that around that time. Mick and Stevie only relented not replacing John once they were informed insurance will cover their pulling out of Australia dates.

before that, Lindsey was the only one holding the line, that they should not tour without John.

so i guess since that time, John was well aware Mick and Stevie will throw him under the bus, if needed. maybe that's why people blame not stopping Lindsey ouster more on Christine. but - without John, Christine and Lindsey all there, with just Mick and Stevie, how successful would they be in selling the band as Fleetwood Mac? who knows? they have a great PR machine behind them when they need it.

Great PR machine and a casual fanbase that will show up for anything apparently. They still took a bath on that first leg when places were barely half sold. I think they got much better at "papering" shows and giving away tickets as the tour progressed. That's the only reason that tour went on as long as it did - they had to recoup money and shows were paced very far apart. People loved reporting show stats from billboard or Pollstar, but it's pretty common knowledge that those stats are doctored to cover up poor sales well before they are published.

For a hot minute, I gave them a sliver of credit for an interesting setlist. Then, like every interesting Fleetwood Mac setlist, they reverted back to the usual. Oh, but it was Lindsey responsible for the stale setlists! RIGHT!

[Nicks Fan]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Great PR machine and a casual fanbase that will show up for anything apparently. They still took a bath on that first leg when places were barely half sold. I think they got much better at "papering" shows and giving away tickets as the tour progressed. That's the only reason that tour went on as long as it did - they had to recoup money and shows were paced very far apart. People loved reporting show stats from billboard or Pollstar, but it's pretty common knowledge that those stats are doctored to cover up poor sales well before they are published.

For a hot minute, I gave them a sliver of credit for an interesting setlist. Then, like every interesting Fleetwood Mac setlist, they reverted back to the usual. Oh, but it was Lindsey responsible for the stale setlists! RIGHT!

I agree re the setlists. Back when Lindsey quit in 87 the band resorted to doing SN solo songs and a Buckingham Nicks song in the setlist instead of doing any Bob Welch, Danny Kirwan or Jeremey Spencer material. Heck they could have done something rare of Stevie's like Storm's, That's Alright etc but instead they stuck to the tried and true. If Rick and or Billy hadn't insisted on doing some Peter Green songs they wouldn't have done those either.

Face it they are a band that shot themselves in the foot by not playing music from all eras throughout the past 40 plus years so now most fans in attendance don't know or care for songs from that era.

Look at social media. How many of the so called FM fans ever said anything negative about the stale setlists till Lindsey was out? Once he was fired then they tried to act like they cared about Welch, Kirwan etc and were always clammering to hear their songs in the show. I guess anything to justify his firing and or another stale nostlagia tour.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Nicks Fan

I agree re the setlists. Back when Lindsey quit in 87 the band resorted to doing SN solo songs and a Buckingham Nicks song in the setlist instead of doing any Bob Welch, Danny Kirwan or Jeremey Spencer material.

Heck they could have done something rare of Stevie's like Storm's, That's Alright etc but instead they stuck to the tried and true.

It was a different equation in 1987. It was their first tour in five years, they had a new lineup, Stevie had a massive solo career by then, and they were still making relevant music. They weren’t a nostalgia act, yet. They were playing it safe and were going out of their way to spotlight the girls.

As for doing DLMDA, that was entirely Billy’s idea. He and his dad were signed to Polydor in 1973 and were given a copy of the album by the label and Billy immediately loved it, saying it reminded him a little of Delaney & Bonnie. And, DLMDA was a perfect stylistic fit for him. That said, his solo song “It Ain’t Over,” which was a duet with Christine, would have been much more appropriate.

If Rick and or Billy hadn't insisted on doing some Peter Green songs they wouldn't have done those either.

I don’t think they had to insist on anything. Mick, John, and Christine are always up for playing blues. Plus, with Rick having been a Bluesbreaker, I think that was the point in bringing him in. The blues were in vogue again, notably thanks to Stevie Ray Vaughn.

Face it they are a band that shot themselves in the foot by not playing music from all eras throughout the past 40 plus years so now most fans in attendance don't know or care for songs from that era.

Yes and no. By the time they got to Tusk, when they were knee deep in current relevance, they had enough from just that lineup that they wanted to play that there wasn’t room for the old stuff, beyond “Oh Well.” Plus, would it have made sense to keep “Hypnotized” in the set when Bob Welch was successfully touring as a solo artist?

Look at social media. How many of the so called FM fans ever said anything negative about the stale setlists till Lindsey was out?

Around here, it was a very common complaint. Personally, I’ve always thought they could have expanded what they were drawing upon. Especially during the “Time” era tours.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Great PR machine and a casual fanbase that will show up for anything apparently.

Also, die-hard fans. People who want to see Christine, Stevie, Mick, and John. Plus, Finn and Campbell also brought in a people.

They still took a bath on that first leg when places were barely half sold.

They wouldn’t have taken a bath. They have guarantees. It’s the promoter who would take a bath.

That's the only reason that tour went on as long as it did - they had to recoup money and shows were paced very far apart. People loved reporting show stats from billboard or Pollstar, but it's pretty common knowledge that those stats are doctored to cover up poor sales well before they are published.

The shows I saw were 85%-90% sold out, and most of the pictures I saw from other shows looked similar.

What evidence do you have that disputes the numbers? Is that something you know for a fact to be true, or is that just something you want to be true?

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Great PR machine and a casual fanbase that will show up for anything apparently. They still took a bath on that first leg when places were barely half sold. I think they got much better at "papering" shows and giving away tickets as the tour progressed. That's the only reason that tour went on as long as it did - they had to recoup money and shows were paced very far apart. People loved reporting show stats from billboard or Pollstar, but it's pretty common knowledge that those stats are doctored to cover up poor sales well before they are published.

For a hot minute, I gave them a sliver of credit for an interesting setlist. Then, like every interesting Fleetwood Mac setlist, they reverted back to the usual. Oh, but it was Lindsey responsible for the stale setlists! RIGHT!

This last tour was a great opportunity to get a front row half the price. I remember reading comments on Twitter of many fans who experienced the joy of buying a cheap seat to end up on the front row.
Giving away was the key on this tour.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by button-lip

This last tour was a great opportunity to get a front row half the price. I remember reading comments on Twitter of many fans who experienced the joy of buying a cheap seat to end up on the front row.
Giving away was the key on this tour.

Except, the band didn’t control the ticket prices and didn’t make a decision to reduce prices. That was all the promoters. The band would have gotten paid, regardless.

And I wish I could have gotten a giveaway ticket. I didn’t get in for less than three bills, and a couple of shows were last minute things. Worth it just to hear Christine play a couple of blues solos.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

And I wish I could have gotten a giveaway ticket. I didn’t get in for less than three bills, and a couple of shows were last minute things. Worth it just to hear Christine play a couple of blues solos.

I got in The Garden in the loge next to the stage for under $200. Amazing seat esp for GDW

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

I got in The Garden in the loge next to the stage for under $200. Amazing seat esp for GDW

Nice! The best I got was in club seating. The view was better than the nosebleeds and it was a smaller, much less congested section, so I was happy.

[cbBen]

I rate this album very highly. My chief complaint is that it is too long. It astounds me that Lindsey wanted to make it even longer. He was wrong on that front.

That said, I think he did an amazing job producing. Most interesting production Stevie's material had received in eons.

Here's what Sea Of Tranquility guest co-host Jeff Young said about the album (see 12:50-mark here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdbNnq2L32Q):

"I got a lot to say about this underrated album in their catalog, in the Fleetwood Mac canon, which is Say You Will. And one cool thing is Lindsey did the whole album with the VG-8 Roland–it's like a guitar synthesizer–and the special pickups that he has in his Rick Turner guitar. So it has a very cool sound. He shreds a lot on that album. He gets really aggressive. There's a lot of guitar playing on this album. I think a lot of people miss this record."

Favorite songs are "Murrow" "Everybody Finds Out" "Running Through The Garden" "Steal Your Heart Away" and "Destiny Rules."

Least favorite are the title track (those lyrics), "Silver Girl," and especially "Come" (too heavy for me – I'm a folkie).

Overall, I agree with Jeff Young that it's a tremendously underrated album.

And no, I don't miss Christine. To me, it's a nice of change of pace.

[tabruns]

Originally Posted by cbBen

I rate this album very highly. My chief complaint is that it is too long. It astounds me that Lindsey wanted to make it even longer. He was wrong on that front.

That said, I think he did an amazing job producing. Most interesting production Stevie's material had received in eons.

Here's what Sea Of Tranquility guest co-host Jeff Young said about the album (see 12:50-mark here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdbNnq2L32Q):

"I got a lot to say about this underrated album in their catalog, in the Fleetwood Mac canon, which is Say You Will. And one cool thing is Lindsey did the whole album with the VG-8 Roland–it's like a guitar synthesizer–and the special pickups that he has in his Rick Turner guitar. So it has a very cool sound. He shreds a lot on that album. He gets really aggressive. There's a lot of guitar playing on this album. I think a lot of people miss this record."

Favorite songs are "Murrow" "Everybody Finds Out" "Running Through The Garden" "Steal Your Heart Away" and "Destiny Rules."

Least favorite are the title track (those lyrics), "Silver Girl," and especially "Come" (too heavy for me – I'm a folkie).

Overall, I agree with Jeff Young that it's a tremendously underrated album.

And no, I don't miss Christine. To me, it's a nice of change of pace.

I think this album is under-rated also, although I think it should have been a double album. Lots of great songs on this album.

Favorites are: Peacekeeper, Say You Will, Thrown Down, Steal Your Heart Away, Illume, Miranda, Destiny Rules

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by cbBen

"And one cool thing is Lindsey did the whole album with the VG-8 Roland–it's like a guitar synthesizer–and the special pickups that he has in his Rick Turner guitar.”

That’s probably the least enduring quality of the album for me. I’d much rather have a lot of vintage guitars and amps than that.

And no, I don't miss Christine. To me, it's a nice of change of pace.

I did, but I think they did a good job without her. The title track feels like Stevie consciously trying to write a Christine song and it achieved its goal.