Lindsey Buckingham & Rick Vito: Comparing Styles

[David]

I thought we'd have a thread comparing styles & approaches in two of Fleetwood Mac's guitarists: Rick Vito & Lindsey Buckingham.

Our moral imaginations can calculate the passage of possibilities into probabilities when we compare Vito with Buckingham, as well as to all other extant literature of the Baby Boom.

From the perspective of that Baby Boom, what is new in Vito? in Buckingham? Where do Vito's & Buckingham's crucial originalities cluster? What is it about Vito's & Buckingham's tone, stance, mode of aural narrative, that was a difference that made a difference? One large area of answer should undoubtedly concern the representation of motivic arc within the melodic line as a child to a parent, or perhaps a subject to the State. Another should concern irony, which seems to me the element of style in the Fleetwood Mac opus that is still most often & most weakly misread, even by the latest-model music critics of the New York Times.

[TomBanks147]

The difference in my opinion is that Rick got more out of Fleetwood Mac than he put in.

Lindsey was just being Lindsey in Fleetwood Mac but Rick seemed so uncomfortable and forced on stage. He was trying to be something he's not.

I like his playing but I just see him as a replacement ratehr than a true member (not a huge fan of behind the mask)

[madformac]

Originally Posted by TomBanks147

The difference in my opinion is that Rick got more out of Fleetwood Mac than he put in.

Can you expand on that?

[SteveMacD]

Lindsey overthinks the big picture, while Rick would overthink the small details of his guitar playing (in a way that I don't believe Lindsey has the ability to overthink).

Lindsey was a visionary, Rick was a team player.

Lindsey is a modernist, Rick is a traditionalist.

Lindsey had something to prove, Rick already had an impressive resumé and didn't need to prove himself.

Lindsey was intense and angry, Rick was laid back and happy.

Lindsey is a brilliant finger stylist, Rick is billiant in every other facet of guitar playing.

I think both are amazing at what they do, and I think the band was lucky to have had both. I'd have either one in my band. Hell, I'd have BOTH in my band!

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by TomBanks147

The difference in my opinion is that Rick got more out of Fleetwood Mac than he put in.

If you're talking fan base, then I agree. Fleetwood Mac fans tend to be loyal, and I'm sure he's benefitted from his time in the band. But, given that he was only in the band for three years, on one album, and that his best material was left off, I think Rick had more to offer than what he was actually allowed to do.

Originally Posted by TomBanks147

Lindsey was just being Lindsey in Fleetwood Mac but Rick seemed so uncomfortable and forced on stage. He was trying to be something he's not.

Rick always seemed comfortable whenever he was doing his material or blues material. But, even Lindsey said he wasn't comfortable doing songs from the earlier incarnations (save for "Oh Well" which he liked). The way they released BTM sucked. There were better songs that could have been put on that album (especially if Stevie hadn't released TOSOTM).

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

If you're talking fan base, then I agree. Fleetwood Mac fans tend to be loyal, and I'm sure he's benefitted from his time in the band. But, given that he was only in the band for three years, on one album, and that his best material was left off, I think Rick had more to offer than what he was actually allowed to do.

Rick always seemed comfortable whenever he was doing his material or blues material. But, even Lindsey said he wasn't comfortable doing songs from the earlier incarnations (save for "Oh Well" which he liked). The way they released BTM sucked. There were better songs that could have been put on that album (especially if Stevie hadn't released TOSOTM).

Amen & Hallelujah Brother!

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

. . . (especially if Stevie hadn't released TOSOTM).

I always feel for La Nicks because since the inception of her solo career, the status or notion of FM doing another record has pretty much always been in the air as far as a it being a final thing. She seemingly is torn between putting out a solo record or waiting for FM. I do not blame her for not waiting on a less than sure thing, but do wish some of her solo stuff would have made a Mac record. I think Vito and BB would have been all over Whole Lotta Trouble and Fire Burning.

Interestingly, TISL is the only one I know of that she stopped to do a FM record and who could blame her then, though clearly she would have released TISL, albeit likely to much less fanfare without The Dance and her stellar performances there.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think Vito and BB would have been all over Whole Lotta Trouble...

(see my previous post)

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I always feel for La Nicks because since the inception of her solo career, the status or notion of FM doing another record has pretty much always been in the air as far as a it being a final thing. She seemingly is torn between putting out a solo record or waiting for FM. I do not blame her for not waiting on a less than sure thing, but do wish some of her solo stuff would have made a Mac record. I think Vito and BB would have been all over Whole Lotta Trouble and Fire Burning.

I don't JUST blame Stevie. To be sure "Red Rocks" and TOSOTM didn't help, but neither did the "Tango" video or "Greatest Hits" album. I would have released a "retro" album and a more serious, pop-rock album.

The "retro" album would have looked something like this:

Walk Another Mile
So Excited
Hi Ho Silver
Are You Mine
Living Without You
Whole Lotta Trouble
When The Sun Goes Down
Desiree
Roll With Me Henry
Tear It Up
Love Is Dangerous
I Still Miss Someone

While the more modern album would have looked like:

Skies The Limit
Victim Of Love
Rooms On Fire
Got No Home
Save Me
Affairs Of The Heart
In The Back Of My Mind
Behind The Mask
Stand On The Rocks
Do You Know
Intuition
Paper Doll
As Long As You Follow
The Game Of Love
Lizard People

This way, we would have had two new Fleetwood Mac albums (remember, most of the songs on the "retro" album were recorded by the band or by Stevie during this period) and no lame repackaging of songs we all had, videos that suck, or a lame solo album.

[David]

I'm confused.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by David

I'm confused.

We know, David. We know.

[Ghost_Tracker]

Originally Posted by David

I thought we'd have a thread comparing styles & approaches in two of Fleetwood Mac's guitarists: Rick Vito & Lindsey Buckingham.

.

I'm not really sure if you mean technical things or not - I don't really have the musical knowledge to even take a guess at that. But just in general, I'd say that Rick Vito is an extremely talented guitarist who has the ability to play anything at all that they hand him very well, no matter what the difficulty level, speed, etc. He can also "put on a show" at the same time. (on-stage, etc.)

But Lindsey IS a guitarist, "through-and-through." He claimed he "had his guitar around his neck 24/7" - Stevie's joked in interviews and stuff that he pretty much slept with the damn thing and I think that's pretty much true. So in other words, it's VERY much a part of his "identity" - and a big part of how he views himself, etc. He "gets" the music, in a very deep way. Not putting Rick Vito down but he's basically a "hired gun" whereas Lindsey's a "professional gunslinger" - he's an artist, Rick Vito's (essentially) a technical guy. (Obviously I'm kinda generalizing.)
Sound about right???

On Edit: I think maybe also, whatever the technical differences are, a large part of them is caused by the differences in type of ambition that they have, or at least had. Not putting Vito down, but I think maybe his "embellishments," "interpretations" etc. on-stage were essentially designed to show off his (extraordinary) guitar work. Obviously Lindsey does the same thing (c'mon - wasn't he showing off at least a LITTLE in "So Afraid?" ) - - - But Lindsey is ultimately playing his own songs most of the time and so he's more concerned with expressing the emotions he felt when he wrote the songs - much more concerned with that than demonstrating technical skills. He really is at "a whole 'nother level," in other words (i.m.o.) - the technical stuff is just so basic to him, and so second-nature, that he can concentrate on other things (such as conveying emotion, etc.)

So in other words - Vito is portraying an emotion. Lindsey is expressing one that he's actually feeling, or at least has felt. (For example, when he wrote the song.)

I've also heard it said that Lindsey B. uses a "diatonic" style of playing - I think maybe that means he has two different things going on at once. (That's very clear in "So Afraid," I think... ) I don't believe that R. Vito does that, at least not in the "Tango in the Night" concert.

Also - Buckingham has a very strong "home court" advantage in that not only did he write the songs, he's performed many of them so many times he can't even count. So songs such as "So Afraid," etc. are sort of "permanently etched" into his memory, whereas Rick Vito would have to re-memorize things, review them in his mind before a concert, etc. So since Lindsey doesn't (usually) have to take the time with re-learning many of the songs, he can concentrate on other things.

[David]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

I've also heard it said that Lindsey B. uses a "diatonic" style of playing - I think maybe that means he has two different things going on at once. (That's very clear in "So Afraid," I think... ) I don't believe that R. Vito does that, at least not in the "Tango in the Night" concert.

Somebody fed you quite a meal, there, ghost_tracker!

Diatonic just means using major & minor but not chromatic scales. In that sense, it describes just about all mainstream rock: Lindsey, Rick, Stevie, even Weird Al Yankovic.

[TomBanks147]

I'd have to agree with what most of Ghost tracker said.

Lindsey was intense and angry, Rick was laid back and happy.

I know you used "was" but I think thise impression of Lindsey being all angry is kind of an illusion. I think he is very passionate about his music and in interviews comes across as quite agressive but the interviewer only ever asks questions about the music and everythign else that falls into that catergory the industry, band politics etc.

In actuall fact I think hes pretty laid back and easy to get along with, although, yes, he is a perfectionist and does take his music career very serious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im02u...y%20buckingham

I've also heard it said that Lindsey B. uses a "diatonic" style of playing - I think maybe that means he has two different things going on at once. (That's very clear in "So Afraid," I think... ) I don't believe that R. Vito does that, at least not in the "Tango in the Night" concert.

I think what you mean is having multiple Rhythms going at the same time (Like a drummer has to) this is Lindsey style of playing, he stuck to it his entire career and has it perfectly crafted. It ‘Travis Picking’ and not a very common style of playing as far as the guitar goes.

I think “I’m so afraid” is a bad example of this though as he doesn’t actually use the technique for that song.

[QUOTE]I'm not really sure if you mean technical things or not - I don't really have the musical knowledge to even take a guess at that. But just in general, I'd say that Rick Vito is an extremely talented guitarist who has the ability to play anything at all that they hand him very well, no matter what the difficulty level, speed, etc. He can also "put on a show" at the same time. (on-stage, etc.)
[QUOTE]

Yeah, Rick is probably on paper the better guitarist. He does exactly that, plays anything someone hands him. He certainly can't use the alternating bass technique in the same way Lindsey can but for blues etc he has the upper hand.

My problem with the guy is that hes to robotic and textbook, if you know what I mean. He doesn't use music to be artistic or push the boat out like Lindsey does, he just kind of, Plays.

Like I said I only see him as a replacement rather than a member in his own right. I say he got more out of Fleetwood Mac than they got out of him because, he was only in the band for three years. Wrote 3 songs, 2 of which where Co-wrote. He was the wrong man for the band and he tried to be someone he's not. I think he needed fleetwood mac but not vise visa.

People on this forum say that Fleetwood mac are a nostilga band now (which is TOTALLY untrue) in actually fact the only time they have ever been one was durring the tango tour, and this was down to Mr Vito.

[madformac]

Originally Posted by TomBanks147

My problem with the guy is that hes to robotic and textbook, if you know what I mean. He doesn't use music to be artistic or push the boat out like Lindsey does, he just kind of, Plays.

Depends on the view. I'd say Lindsey is very robotic, or maybe just very rehearsed. On the recent tours I've only once dropped my jaw at him playing anything out of his normal comfort zone of predetermined licks on a song. (That was I'm So Afraid, Earls Court 29th Nov 2003). Doesn't mean he's not extremely talented it's just he sticks to the same formula. Be it writing, talking or playing. Nothing is spontanious. I think maybe Rick had a greater sense of improvisation although I would agree it was sadly underused in his tenure with this band.