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  #121  
Old 09-24-2019, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by aleuzzi View Post
In fairness, the two law suits are of a different character. LB was right to sue them for the way the band behaved and any of the Mac members bitter about this would have to be a moron.

Bob was probably legally in the right to sue, as well--but in this case I don't think the Fleetwood and the McVies were intentionally screwing him over. Rather they had renegotiated their contracts with WB and neither they nor the parent company bothered to contact Bob. This callous oversight would be enough to want to make Bob sue. But I suspect, by the early 90s, the band considered their dealings with Bob long since finished. They had helped him launch his solo career; they contributed to his night at the Roxy; they pretty much watched out for him until FM itself imploded in the mid-80s. Yes, Welch deserved more but the band's treatment of him was not malicious or consciously motivated. I think they just pretty much moved on. Inexcusable--but not the same as Lindsey's case. That Christine was furious over Bob's lawsuit shows that none of the pre-75 trio expected it, or thought they deserved this. In fact, a lawsuit from Bob probably seemed like a bizarre echo of the Clifford Davis lawsuit.
Christine's attitude towards Lindsey (and the rest of the band) was different before and after the lawsuit. She didn't want to do anything with Stevie and Mick once Lindsey was fired and she even sent him an email.
I don't know what happened after the lawsuit but she definitely experienced a change of heart, IMO. I don't know if the lawsuit had anything to do with it, but we know she wasn't happy with Bob suing them. Maybe it was something else, but she's Team Stevie now. And that something I'd never, ever understand.
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  #122  
Old 09-24-2019, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by button-lip View Post
Christine's attitude towards Lindsey (and the rest of the band) was different before and after the lawsuit. She didn't want to do anything with Stevie and Mick once Lindsey was fired and she even sent him an email.
I don't know what happened after the lawsuit but she definitely experienced a change of heart, IMO. I don't know if the lawsuit had anything to do with it, but we know she wasn't happy with Bob suing them. Maybe it was something else, but she's Team Stevie now. And that something I'd never, ever understand.
I can't understand it either, unless she's just as money driven as the rest of them. Also, I have no idea, but it seems like someone got to her and stranglehold-ed her. Because her story now is completely different than the original attitude she had right after it happened. Poor Lindsey, that must hurt to see her spouting this stuff.

Lindsey suing the band was something completely understandable from a business standpoint. And considering how fast they settled, he was completely within his right.
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  #123  
Old 09-24-2019, 02:13 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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I think it's self preservation more than anything.

Christine is tied to Mick and John. Mick and Christine are the parents of Fleetwood Mac. And the baby brat demanded through her mgmt that Lindsey be taken out or good luck moving on without her.
Christine is more than happy to join the world of Rock and Roll again. However, she's not going to do it without the millions of dollars everyone else is making. And don't forget, she no longer gets royalties.

As an actor, musician, or any kind of talent based organization. It all comes down to self preservation. Christine makes a stand, the whole thing blows up and she goes home and sits in her London apartment thinking of how she could tour a solo album by herself. Face it, you can speculate why she's team Azoff/Nick$; but, it's clear as day to me.

This was a female narrative. A girl power theme to fit in with today's politically correct society. Of course, they are going to beat on the men a bit. And especially the man that was fired because NOBODY WAS HAPPY.
It's sad that they didn't make it 3 hours and cover everyone's transgressions.

For example, I was really impossible to deal with on a professional level WHEN I WAS DOING ALL THAT COKE AND THEN PILLS, and I can't blame Lindsey for leaving.

Last point I want to make is this: I believe in my heart that Lindsey was fired in part because he left all those years ago in 1987. There is a small part of them saying, take that!!
It's wrong and it makes me ill. But, that's my 30,000 foot view.
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Last edited by jbrownsjr; 09-24-2019 at 02:17 PM..
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  #124  
Old 09-24-2019, 02:27 PM
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Agree with all of this. It is definitely part of them trying to rebuild their brand going forward. Notice it's the first time we've seen Stevie do a sit-down interview in which she talks about anything FM, and certainly the first time we've heard her say his name (she didn't say it in the CBS interview if i recall correctly. She said stuff like 'one member didn't want to tour' etc etc).

Also agree with the negative stories about LB...why put them in the middle of a Chris doc?? I think they told themselves it was part of building the Stevie-Christine as nexus of the band narrative. "See, these two women have been the core all along". And Chris was even there to defend her from nasty man. There is an odd theme of the women having to tolerate bad men-- the whole John getting violent story is in there as well. Is that supposed to make it seem balanced??

This is definitely the first major piece in their clear decision to be more assertive in marketing themselves and rewriting history with a new narrative. It's also not surprising at ALL that they do this at the end of their touring -- they've seen they still sell, but just in case they put it out after most of the tour so it won't create any chatter from all the local reporters etc.

Or maybe Stevie got sick of how Mick was peddling the lies and how NOT well it was being received that she thought, Right, let me show y'all how we're gonna do this....

Somehow when watching it I felt like it was someone throwing a bone to Christine and her not quite recognizing what it's real goal was...
Very clever indeed to do this once the tour is practically over.

If Christine doesn't realize what Stevie and Mick are doing, then she's not the smart person I thought she was.
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  #125  
Old 09-24-2019, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr View Post
I think it's self preservation more than anything.

Christine is tied to Mick and John. Mick and Christine are the parents of Fleetwood Mac. And the baby brat demanded through her mgmt that Lindsey be taken out or good luck moving on without her.
Christine is more than happy to join the world of Rock and Roll again. However, she's not going to do it without the millions of dollars everyone else is making. And don't forget, she no longer gets royalties.

As an actor, musician, or any kind of talent based organization. It all comes down to self preservation. Christine makes a stand, the whole thing blows up and she goes home and sits in her London apartment thinking of how she could tour a solo album by herself. Face it, you can speculate why she's team Azoff/Nick$; but, it's clear as day to me.

This was a female narrative. A girl power theme to fit in with today's politically correct society. Of course, they are going to beat on the men a bit. And especially the man that was fired because NOBODY WAS HAPPY.
It's sad that they didn't make it 3 hours and cover everyone's transgressions.

For example, I was really impossible to deal with on a professional level WHEN I WAS DOING ALL THAT COKE AND THEN PILLS, and I can't blame Lindsey for leaving.

.
Last point I want to make is this: I believe in my heart that Lindsey was fired in part because he left all those years ago in 1987. There is a small part of them saying, take that!!
It's wrong and it makes me ill. But, that's my 30,000 foot view

Oh, I'm sure the "Lindsey was a bad, bad, bad man" was perfect for today's perfect society standards. Me, poor, poor Stevie!!!

Well, it never occurred to me his firing was payback for those days, but it could be. They waited for him to sign for their upcoming tour, and next thing he knows, bam!!, you're no longer part of it! How does it feel now that we're doing IT to you?
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"I think what you would say is that there were factions within the band that had lost their perspective. What that did was to harm the 43-year legacy that we had worked so hard to build, and that legacy was really about rising above difficulties in order to fulfill one's higher truth and one's higher destiny."
Lindsey Buckingham, May 11, 2018.
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  #126  
Old 09-24-2019, 04:17 PM
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The documentary was okay, but what all the old stuff about Lindsey and Stevie was doing in there....I don’t know

It was supposed to be about Christine, so yes her relationship with John, now and then, was right to be there.

Lindsey’s sacking was okay to talk about as it’s pertinent to Fmac today( and why they have the current line up) but wasn’t really discussed.??

The sacking of Lindsey has its origins way back...at least back to 1998, when he
became a father....but maybe even further back than that.
Maybe he put her down one time too many.
In Stevie’s mind payback would be due one day and she could wait, and boy she waited.
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  #127  
Old 09-25-2019, 07:05 AM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Originally Posted by button-lip View Post
Last point I want to make is this: I believe in my heart that Lindsey was fired in part because he left all those years ago in 1987. There is a small part of them saying, take that!!
It's wrong and it makes me ill. But, that's my 30,000 foot view

Oh, I'm sure the "Lindsey was a bad, bad, bad man" was perfect for today's perfect society standards. Me, poor, poor Stevie!!!

Well, it never occurred to me his firing was payback for those days, but it could be. They waited for him to sign for their upcoming tour, and next thing he knows, bam!!, you're no longer part of it! How does it feel now that we're doing IT to you?
I also think that it opened the door to having them think they could still make a ton of cash having the 2 ladies. (Which they have each tour with Billy/Rick and Mike/Neil). And since this is the "final" tour, they don't need to think legacy or new music or have any scruples whatsoever.
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Last edited by jbrownsjr; 09-25-2019 at 05:38 PM..
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  #128  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:42 AM
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It's really interesting how Stevie loves to tell the coke era tales and the hole in her nose story when it pertains to herself, her own drama, and her own "comeback" per say, but she almost NEVER in recent years addresses it in terms of how it fully impacted the rest of the band in 1987. As more time passes, the narrative of Lindsey leaving persists but the other side of the story gets put on the back burner, conveniently the rest of the band never addresses it either, but let's talk about Lindsey leaving some more.

If we really want to talk about leaving promoters hanging and blah blah blah, let's talk about leaving a record contract hanging because somebody was too coked up to show up for half the record.

Had Christine and Lindsey not been able to hobble together TITN, they would of really been up the creek for both the record and the tour.

And Stevie REALLY owes Sandy Stewart a solid for bailing her out with Seven Wonders.
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  #129  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAl84 View Post
It's really interesting how Stevie loves to tell the coke era tales and the hole in her nose story when it pertains to herself, her own drama, and her own "comeback" per say, but she almost NEVER in recent years addresses it in terms of how it fully impacted the rest of the band in 1987. As more time passes, the narrative of Lindsey leaving persists but the other side of the story gets put on the back burner, conveniently the rest of the band never addresses it either, but let's talk about Lindsey leaving some more.

If we really want to talk about leaving promoters hanging and blah blah blah, let's talk about leaving a record contract hanging because somebody was too coked up to show up for half the record.

Had Christine and Lindsey not been able to hobble together TITN, they would of really been up the creek for both the record and the tour.

And Stevie REALLY owes Sandy Stewart a solid for bailing her out with Seven Wonders.
^ This.
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  #130  
Old 09-25-2019, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAl84 View Post
It's really interesting how Stevie loves to tell the coke era tales and the hole in her nose story when it pertains to herself, her own drama, and her own "comeback" per say, but she almost NEVER in recent years addresses it in terms of how it fully impacted the rest of the band in 1987. As more time passes, the narrative of Lindsey leaving persists but the other side of the story gets put on the back burner, conveniently the rest of the band never addresses it either, but let's talk about Lindsey leaving some more.

If we really want to talk about leaving promoters hanging and blah blah blah, let's talk about leaving a record contract hanging because somebody was too coked up to show up for half the record.

Had Christine and Lindsey not been able to hobble together TITN, they would of really been up the creek for both the record and the tour.

And Stevie REALLY owes Sandy Stewart a solid for bailing her out with Seven Wonders.
Completely agree. Let's talk about how your lack of focus and deteriorated health impacted those around you who covered for you and who tried to save your butt. Let's talk about how, in 1985-86, Lindsey and Christine were the only members of the five who were in good functioning order. The rest had to be propped up, coaxed back, or dried out. Let's talk about how Lindsey's enormous contributions to the post-Dance band are entirely ignored now. And let's talk about the fact that the BuckVie foursome tried to function as the Mac but were hamstrung by managers, lawyers, etc.
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  #131  
Old 09-25-2019, 04:16 PM
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Remember how Mick said Christine stood up to Stevie and wouldn’t have it when Stevie started whining about not being on Christine’s songs? Christine said, I wanted you on my songs too, but YOU WEREN’T THERE!

But wait, um, who was that person Petty and Dylan had hanging around them?
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  #132  
Old 09-25-2019, 10:06 PM
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Remember how Mick said Christine stood up to Stevie and wouldn’t have it when Stevie started whining about not being on Christine’s songs? Christine said, I wanted you on my songs too, but YOU WEREN’T THERE!

But wait, um, who was that person Petty and Dylan had hanging around them?
Stevie never cared for the band the way Lindsey did/still does. For her, it was just a mean to an end: her solo career. And now she's using it to get back at him. What a pathetic and sad life she's living right now!
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"I think what you would say is that there were factions within the band that had lost their perspective. What that did was to harm the 43-year legacy that we had worked so hard to build, and that legacy was really about rising above difficulties in order to fulfill one's higher truth and one's higher destiny."
Lindsey Buckingham, May 11, 2018.
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  #133  
Old 09-26-2019, 09:13 AM
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Stevie never cared for the band the way Lindsey did/still does.
Did? Even in 1987? Lindsey was fairly reticent about recording a new Fleetwood Mac album, and after saying yes he was under strain during the record sessions. No surprise he left the band before the tour started.

People change over time.
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  #134  
Old 09-26-2019, 10:09 AM
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Did? Even in 1987? Lindsey was fairly reticent about recording a new Fleetwood Mac album, and after saying yes he was under strain during the record sessions. No surprise he left the band before the tour started.

People change over time.
Like many have said here, funny how Stevie (and her fans) LOVES to talk about Lindsey leaving the band in 1987, but they conveniently forget the reasons.
He was reticent to record an album? TITN saw the light of day thanks to Lindsey and Christine, while Stevie was too coked up to even remember what she was doing. THAT's why he was under strain. Because of Stevie and her deterioration in front of everybody, but especially in front of him.

Christine and Lindsey are the reason we had some form of FM music these past couple of years. Not Stevie.

I'm mad at Lindsey for wasting so much time on these people. Too bad he didn't leave them in 1987 and never came back.
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"I think what you would say is that there were factions within the band that had lost their perspective. What that did was to harm the 43-year legacy that we had worked so hard to build, and that legacy was really about rising above difficulties in order to fulfill one's higher truth and one's higher destiny."
Lindsey Buckingham, May 11, 2018.
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  #135  
Old 09-26-2019, 12:19 PM
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It wasn’t just Stevie. Mick was in a crazed and needy state too at that time. It was hard to work with him and Lindsey said that he knew from Tusk that if it’s bad in the studio it’s going to be 10 times worse on the road.

He left after giving them an album to tour on. A very successful album.
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