So...now what?

[TrueFaith77]

It was person AND tense. He originally suggested “He was going home.” Then he compromised with suggestion “Now he’s going home.” She held her ground and said he couldn’t make these recommendations to Bob Dylan. He said he couldn’t not bring it up especially since this was less abstract a song than Dylan would in these circumstances.

[TheWildHeart67]

Lindsey didn't call them tenses

I just watched it last night. He called them tenses. Go rewatch

[DownOnRodeo]

Seems things are getting a little tense!

Originally Posted by TheWildHeart67

I just watched it last night. He called them tenses. Go rewatch

I rewatched, and he seems to mention both explicitly, albeit in the vaguest of terms anyway.

Lindsey: "..the tense and the person..."

He seems to be speaking in a deliberately vague/trepidatious/deferential manner in order to get his point across with as little ego damage as possible; no luck though, because Stevie is glaring at him before he's even made his point (if the editing of the documentary makers is to be believed).

What always frustrated me about this "scene" is that Lindsey clearly does not enjoy giving her 'notes' (who would?), so for him to make a point of this I believe means that he really liked Thrown Down and felt the potential for it to be a hit or a well-regarded song that he could contribute to fine-tuning. We don't know whether he gave much or any advice about the lyrics in, say, Silver Girl, but my assumption is that he probably recognized that one as lacking hit potential and saved his battles. My point being: I wish Stevie had registered this compliment, rather than seeming so defensive about it. But I think Lindsey's approach was lacking, too; I think what he should have bothered to do was rework the lyrics to his liking, record it himself, and then let her hear that at least. If she's such a poet, she is more likely to be swayed by hearing an actual musical performance than listening to a vague and abstract grammar lecture.

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by DownOnRodeo

Seems things are getting a little tense!



I rewatched, and he seems to mention both explicitly, albeit in the vaguest of terms anyway.

Lindsey: "..the tense and the person..."

Exactly. He doesn't call the "you/me/him" etc. tenses. However, I can see how it would be confusing for people because he does talk about the tense as well, and I apologize for not acknowledging that. I had indeed forgotten verb tense was also a part of the conversation.

He seems to be speaking in a deliberately vague/trepidatious/deferential manner in order to get his point across with as little ego damage as possible; no luck though, because Stevie is glaring at him before he's even made his point (if the editing of the documentary makers is to be believed).

What always frustrated me about this "scene" is that Lindsey clearly does not enjoy giving her 'notes' (who would?), so for him to make a point of this I believe means that he really liked Thrown Down and felt the potential for it to be a hit or a well-regarded song that he could contribute to fine-tuning. We don't know whether he gave much or any advice about the lyrics in, say, Silver Girl, but my assumption is that he probably recognized that one as lacking hit potential and saved his battles. My point being: I wish Stevie had registered this compliment, rather than seeming so defensive about it. But I think Lindsey's approach was lacking, too; I think what he should have bothered to do was rework the lyrics to his liking, record it himself, and then let her hear that at least. If she's such a poet, she is more likely to be swayed by hearing an actual musical performance than listening to a vague and abstract grammar lecture.

This part always frustrates me as well; he is obviously trying SO HARD not to offend her, yet she acts like he's being absolutely AWFUL to her! As if he's insulting her SO BADLY! And she obviously truly believes he was being horrific to her, because she plays this clip again and again as evidence of how difficult he was to work with (especially highlighting it in the In Your Dreams documentary). She fully expects viewers to be shocked and appalled by his treatment of her. She has no idea how ridiculous it makes her look that this is her example of what a monster Lindsey is in the studio.

It shows how she has become completely incapable of handling even the gentlest of constructive criticism. This is what comes when you surround yourself with sycophants and become accustomed to nothing but praise, even when you are writing less than stellar material. You surround yourself with people who tell you that everything you do is great, and when anyone tells you differently - no matter how tactfully - that person is not only in the wrong, but terribly cruel. She gets "Yes, Stevie" constantly from her entourage and endless adulation from her fans; little wonder that eventually, she decides to cut the one person who doesn't always say "Yes, Stevie" out of her life in order to ensure her "happiness."

Imagine if she had been like this when Lindsey was helping her with her work in the past? Anyone who's listened to her demos knows that if she had told Lindsey "How DARE you tell me Gypsy is repetitive - you wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan" then it would have been crappy. However, with his help, it is my favorite song.

This kind of attitude is how we get "Lady", which is the same song twice over with almost no variety. Dave Stewart: "It's incredible as it is, Stevie! No need to change a thing from your demo! You don't need to add another verse! You fart gold! 24 Karat Gold!"

Sometimes you need to be upset if you want to face your imperfections and improve yourself. I think she's removed herself from reality, to her own detriment. I hope somebody can help her see this before it's too late.