The Sunday Times: Excess all areas

[MikeInNV]

Originally Posted by michelej1

This reminds me of some comment Stevie made about people always wanting her in the studio a lot. She said she didn't know why, but speculated that she must be very vibey. I don't remember the exact quote, but it struck me as amusing.

Well, after seeing the IYD documentary, I now see Stevie as much more involved in the production of her music....not at the technical level but at the creative level where she's really trying to capture a specific sound. It seems like she would be good to bounce ideas off of, even if wasn't her songs being worked on.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by MikeInNV

Well, after seeing the IYD documentary, I now see Stevie as much more involved in the production of her music....not at the technical level but at the creative level where she's really trying to capture a specific sound. It seems like she would be good to bounce ideas off of, even if wasn't her songs being worked on.

I really enjoyed seeing that side of her. Especially because the specific sounds or direction she wanted for the songs were some of my favorite parts about those songs. I think she actually is a great producer. Must be a reason why she was credited as such way back to the Walter Egan days.

[Deeshere]

[QUOTE=michelej1;1100902]

One interesting thing Mick said right after Lindsey left is that if they had not pushed going on the road and just recorded Tango with no tour, then Lindsey might not have left when he did. But that would have been unfair to the rest of them, because if they left it to Lindsey, he would have sat around for another 4 years doing nothing and they would be saying, "Are you in the band or not?". Mick said they really had to put their foot down and insist on touring in 1987 and that's what made Lindsey leave. Otherwise, it might have just hung in limbo.

Michele[/QUOTE

Your right Mick has said in interviews that if Lindsey was not pushed to tour he most likely would have stayed in the band and just made records.

I think Lindsey has said many times over the years that he loves being in the studio (that's obvious) but did not like to tour because of the party atmosphere and the increased drug use. So I do think that if he was not pushed to do a tour for TITN he would have stayed and done more albums with the band.

Interestedly enough I remember reading an article (I think it was from 87) where Lindsey kept saying he did not see the need to tour for TITN, that he though it was dumb to think that every time you do an album that a tour must be done to push the album. That he thought that, that was just WB's corporate mentality. He said he felt if the music is good it can stand on it's own with out a tour. But that the members of Fleetwood Mac thought they had to tour and he specifically mentioned talking to Chris about it, and she was the one really pushing for the tour. I say it was that interesting, because I always though Mick was the one that was always pushing the band to do tours because he loved being out on the road. Also this doesn't sit well with the bands stock answer of saying that Chis quit the band in 97 because she hated to tour and could not do it anymore.

I don't know if you've heard it but here's the link to a 1990 Radio Interview with Mick, Chris, and Billy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvKMvklt1k0

Parts of it are hilarious, especially when they are talking about why each of the Fleetwood Mac guitarist left the band, including poor Danny Kirwan. I think it also shows if anyone was bitter about the band breaking up it was Chris. I'm sure Mick was too, but Chris is very catty towards Lindsey in this interview. There's also a lot of talk about how TITN came about and about how they forced Lindsey to make a decision about if he was staying in the band or not.

[Desiree]

Originally Posted by vivfox

I don't understand why Mick feels the need to drink 4 glasses a night. Some night's it could be five, six or four. Problem is, you can't just have one. Well some people can actually, but not a former alcoholic. Too bad he just can't live a drug and alcohol free lifestyle.

There's always a wayward child, dark sheep...

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Deeshere

But that the members of Fleetwood Mac thought they had to tour and he specifically mentioned talking to Chris about it, and she was the one really pushing for the tour. I say it was that interesting, because I always though Mick was the one that was always pushing the band to do tours because he loved being out on the road. Also this doesn't sit well with the bands stock answer of saying that Chis quit the band in 97 because she hated to tour and could not do it anymore.

Yes, Chris and Lindsey have switched places in many ways. Back then she was saying how she just LOVED to tour. Then later, I think for Going Home, she said how none of them could ever believe that one of them (one of the five) would ever leave and you got a sense of how upset they really were at the time, but they hid it behind snide, false bravura (which I use instead of bravado, because I like the musical reference). All the smack Lindsey talked about her in 2003 was quite similar to the stuff she said about him in 1987.

Michele

[mitzo]

This may sound way off track but I wonder if the increasing restrictions on public smoking played a role in Chris's decision not to tour, at all? I mean, not in the hotel, not on the flight, probably not in the limo, not anywhere in the venue backstage etc. etc. It would make a hardened smoker like her very uncomfortable and likely to just retreat to a mansion in Britain. I have heard that that is the reason why some oldsters do not travel much eg. Joannie Mitchell insists on a private jet, and so on.

[sidwich]

Originally Posted by Deeshere

Michele[/QUOTE

Your right Mick has said in interviews that if Lindsey was not pushed to tour he most likely would have stayed in the band and just made records.

I think Lindsey has said many times over the years that he loves being in the studio (that's obvious) but did not like to tour because of the party atmosphere and the increased drug use. So I do think that if he was not pushed to do a tour for TITN he would have stayed and done more albums with the band.

Interestedly enough I remember reading an article (I think it was from 87) where Lindsey kept saying he did not see the need to tour for TITN, that he though it was dumb to think that every time you do an album that a tour must be done to push the album. That he thought that, that was just WB's corporate mentality. He said he felt if the music is good it can stand on it's own with out a tour.

.

LOL, so Lindsey really did want to become Brian Wilson (minus Brian's agoraphobia and other health issues). (For those unfamiliar with that part of the Beach Boys Story, at some point Brian Wilson refused to tour anymore and started spending all of his time in the studio, leaving the rest of the band to tour with session musicians like then young Glen Campbell).

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Desiree

unless you are an alcoholic or drink excessively, anyone would admit that 4 glasses of wine each nite 'during' the show is a lot!

I love how people who've never been on tour and have probably never played a live show somehow feel qualified to talk with any sense of authority about Mick's or anyone else's drinking.

I mean, you people don't actually know Mick. You don't know his drinking habits on or off the road or if he's an alcoholic. To make any assumption one way or the other makes you nothing more than a judgmental twit. And God knows the world needs more judgmental twits.

FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE OF BEING ON TOUR: One day on the road feels like three or four days in regular time. As a result, things like drinking (and eating, but I guess we're not allowed to talk about why Stevie usually looks a lot fatter at the end of the tour) do significantly pick up on the road, however, they just as significantly slow down afterwards for most people.

And really, four glasses of wine for a 6'7" 215+ pound man who's probably sweating out the alcohol faster than he's putting it in doesn't scream alcoholic to me.

And, as LB and many other musicians and players have said of that 'enhancement' argument...Bull! You do your best work when you are straight and focused!

As somebody who has actually gotten up with a guitar strapped on and played to crowds that have included some of my musical heroes, I will say that a few drinks helps take the edge off. I've never gotten any inspiration or anything like that from drinking (or anything else in my younger days), but it makes me less inhibited when I'm up on stage, and it helps me not over-think things, which is when I really start to mess up.

But, like with anything, it's all an individual thing.

[Desiree]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I love how people who've never been on tour and have probably never played a live show somehow feel qualified to talk with any sense of authority about Mick's or anyone else's drinking.

Before you rant, I doubt you'd say who you are, but a little info on your touring and live show would be of interest to me. And, out of interest, how old are you? And, how do you know that I don't play a live show here and there myself? And, when someone like MF, who has been known to abuse drugs and alcohol all his life and admits it freely, has made millions and gone bankrupt...more than once?has married and divorced 4 times and drinks 4 glasses of wine during work, at a show, HE HAS A PROBLEM by most people's estimate!!!!!!! I might be an addictionologist, too! You just don't know, now do you?

I mean, you people don't actually know Mick. You don't know his drinking habits on or off the road or if he's an alcoholic. To make any assumption one way or the other makes you nothing more than a judgmental twit. And God knows the world needs more judgmental twits.

Judgmental twits? You mean like you? Where do you get off talking like that?

FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE OF BEING ON TOUR[/U][/B]: One day on the road feels like three or four days in regular time. As a result, things like drinking (and eating, but I guess we're not allowed to talk about why Stevie usually looks a lot fatter at the end of the tour) do significantly pick up on the road, however, they just as significantly slow down afterwards for most people.

Whoppie do da...any time people go thru stressful periods they do things like overeat, over drink, over indulge in many things..no matter what your livelihood ....no one is blind here, we all notice the changes occurring among the players over the course of a tour, most of us are really into music and have seen many, many live shows over our own lifetimes.

And really, four glasses of wine for a 6'7" 215+ pound man who's probably sweating out the alcohol faster than he's putting it in doesn't scream alcoholic to me.

Well, water, among other things is great for hydration and avoids the nasty pitfalls of alcohol.

As somebody who has actually gotten up with a guitar strapped on and played to crowds that have included some of my musical heroes, I will say that a few drinks helps take the edge off. I've never gotten any inspiration or anything like that from drinking (or anything else in my younger days), but it makes me less inhibited when I'm up on stage, and it helps me not over-think things, which is when I really start to mess up.

Your attitude here deserves another, whoppie do da!

But, like with anything, it's all an individual thing.

Exactly... but, lighten up and stop taking yourself so seriously!

[Deeshere]

I know that I have read some interviews of Lindsey's where he seems kinda harsh with Chris (the whole burning bridges thing) but I not sure he was really that mad at her for leaving.

I guess I was thinking about this article when I wrote that I was wondering how happy Lindsey would be if Chris decided to rejoin the band. I pulled his quote from: Guitar World Acoustic, Number 59, April 2003

GWA So the pieces were fitting back together again-but evidently Christine wasn't part of the equation anymore. What happened?

Buckingham When we were touring behind The Dance album, you could see that Christine wasn't very happy on the road. When it got to the point where we were making a decision about doing more dates-going to other places in the world and then maybe coming back and doing more stuff in the States-she really just pulled the plug. She didn't want to do it. And I have to say, I was maybe the only person that wasn't giving her a hard time about that, because in some ways I was ambivalent about being up there too, for different reasons. I had once again been sucked back into the black hole of Fleetwood Mac. At some point, for my own desires, I wanted to get back to the body of work that is now the new Fleetwood Mac album, but at the time appeared to be a solo album. I didn't want to languish forever.

So I understood her [Christine's] need to do what she wanted to do, even though she was being pressured to continue. In some ways I probably helped enable her to make that decision, which didn't exactly make me very popular at the time. But she just had to pull out, the same way I did in '87. There was a kinship between us in terms of having to make a decision for your own survival. With the band coming back without her, you could say, "Oh, there's a large piece missing"-and in some ways there is. But it also opened up new possibilities for setting an overall tone for the album.

I think it allowed us to make, certainly, a much ballsier album, and allowed Stevie and myself to at least begin rediscovering our dynamic as a two-part vocal group. Now I don't think that's so well represented on the new album, because a lot of the stuff that's mine was already set, and a lot of her songs were already written along certain lines as well. When we do this again-and I hope we do, in a year or so-and we write from the ground up, I hope we do them as two-part harmony songs. So, really, there's been a whole realm that's opened up by virtue of Christine not being here.

[Deeshere]

Originally Posted by michelej1

All the smack Lindsey talked about her in 2003 was quite similar to the stuff she said about him in 1987.

Michele

Maybe Lindsey decided to pay her back for everything she said about him as soon as he got the chance.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Desiree

Before you rant, I doubt you'd say who you are, but a little info on your touring and live show would be of interest to me.

My name was Steve MacDougall (hence my oh so clever username) up until April. I'm now Stephen Hopkins (though I'm toying with going by Espy Hopkins for stage use, since I have a guitar-playing uncle named Steve Hopkins).

I am roadie for lo-fi indie rock pioneers Guided by Voices and I have worked for them since they reunited in 2010, touring across the United States and even to Oslo, Norway. I have also played some one-off shows with Robert Pollard and Mitch Mitchell. There's a lot of footage of me on YouTube lighting Mitch's cigarettes (which is funny, as I don't smoke). I was part of their entourage when they played Letterman. I fill-in on guitar or bass sometimes at soundchecks and rehearsals (as Homer McVie can attest to).

The two main bands I've been in are Motorhead Mountain and Milko Waif & The Bug-Eyed Mums (with Robert Pollard). Just go to YouTube for more info.

And, out of interest, how old are you?

39

And, how do you know that I don't play a live show here and there myself?

To be fair, I said "probably."

And, when someone like MF, who has been known to abuse drugs and alcohol all his life and admits it freely, has made millions and gone bankrupt...more than once? has married and divorced 4 times and drinks 4 glasses of wine during work, at a show, HE HAS A PROBLEM by most people's estimate!!!!!!!

He was addicted to cocaine by his own admission. However, I don't know if he is an alcoholic. One can be a heavy drinker and still NOT be an alcoholic. I don't know Mick and I refuse to speculate. For all I know, he could easily abstain altogether or stop after one or two drinks and think nothing of it. Just because he chooses not to doesn't mean he can't.

But there were a few straw-man arguments there. He's gotten divorced four times. So what? John McVie is an alcoholic who has gone in and out of sobriety and has only been married twice, the current marriage for 35 or so years.

The bankruptcies. Sure, the substance abuse issues contributed, but so did making bad investments. People without substance abuse/addiction issues go bankrupt all the time because they made bad investments.

Drinking on the job. Okay, this is probably the most ridiculous comment yet. His job is playing drums in a rock band, something most people do as an avocation with their musically inclined drinking buddies. As somebody who's been on tour, I can say that the show is the fun part of touring. Everything's set-up, everyone's there, dressed, ready to go. All of the worry/anxiety that goes with being in motion while traveling is behind them, so they can unwind, relax, start focusing on what they need to do, and get ready to put on a good time for people who've paid a lot of money to be there. Perfect time for some wine, I'd say.


None of those things individually or collectively tell me anything one way or the other about how problematic his drinking is or how many of his issues were brought about because of drinking.

I might be an addictionologist, too! You just don't know, now do you?

Well, I've been a Licensed Social Worker for nearly 13 years and I've worked with enough addiction counsellors to know that having red flags doesn't automatically make somebody an addict.

Whoppie do da...any time people go thru stressful periods they do things like overeat, over drink, over indulge in many things..no matter what your livelihood

People aren't over indulging as a coping mechanism for stress on tour. It's more of a festive thing.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

(as Homer McVie can attest to).

This is a lame assed response, but I have 5 former Ledgies invading my house for the weekend, in 8 hours, so I've gotta get to bed(and prep food before that!), BUT...


Every single word of Steve's post, is spot on. People just don't understand what it's like to be in a band. To run your ass off all day, and then try to compose yourself, to put on a show. A good show. And feel good, and relaxed, doing it.

And that is NO OFFENSE to recovering addicts, but my experience with them, is that they're pissed off at anyone who isn't toeing their line. Again, no offense. Only trying to explain that usually, performers need to take the edge off. Until you've been up there in front of thousands of people, don't pretend that you understand. It's not as cut and dried as it seems...

[Desiree]

[QUOTE=HomerMcvie;1100996]This is a lame assed response, but I have 5 former Ledgies invading my house for the weekend, in 8 hours, so I've gotta get to bed(and prep food before that!), BUT...


Every single word of Steve's post, is spot on. People just don't understand what it's like to be in a band. To run your ass off all day, and then try to compose yourself, to put on a show. A good show. And feel good, and relaxed, doing it.

And, I am sorry, too. I just get pissy when anyone acts like what they do gives them some right that those who do something else don't have. A neurosurgeon has an extremely stressful, demanding job, but he doesn't drink or drug to get thru it! By the way, I am not against recreational drug use, per se, but most of us aren't good at keeping it recreational...life is too hard and self medicating sometimes takes over.


And that is NO OFFENSE to recovering addicts, but my experience with them, is that they're pissed off at anyone who isn't toeing their line. Again, no offense. Only trying to explain that usually, performers need to take the edge off. Until you've been up there in front of thousands of people, don't pretend that you understand. It's not as cut and dried as it seems..

I am not a recovering addict either so no offence taken by me, in fact, I agree, I do however speak to large groups on occasion, luckily, I enjoy it and don't get nervous. But, if I did I sure wouldn't smoke a joint or do a shot beforehand!
No, nothing is cut and dry. If a shot or two, whatever, helps, go for it! But, don't make me pay to come see you all gorked out. I have better ways to spend my money. It all has to do with what you can handle as an individual and how many watchers you have around to make sure you live thru it if you can't handle it. I know my opinion is strong and somewhat unyielding but I've dealt with a lot of drug and alcohol fueled people in my life and done more than my own fair share of imbibing myself! I thank God that I was always able to catch myself and of course we get older and move on at some point...if we're lucky!

[HomerMcvie]

We're talking about musicians, not neurosurgeons.

Pretty big difference in the importance of their jobs, and their impact on others.