LB on FM Firing: 'They'd Lost Their Perspective'

[GypsySorcerer]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

Silver Girl drags, and if you listen to her demo in the documentary, he didn't actually change it much from her demo. She doesn't bring plinky piano demos in anymore to him, she spends time with her other musicians to bring more fleshed out production ideas to him. Her demo had flute on it, and he changed that to some sort of synthesized keyboard that sort of mimicked a high flute-y sound and played almost just what was on her demo. So it was one of her new found drone-y songs (she would repeat the same style on Cheaper Than Free and even on You May Be The One -- but Dave salvaged the latter one with his acoustic guitar; CTF was beyond salvage). It's like her "poems" are just long lists of words anymore. That's why I like Destiny Rules (even tho she cribs the same lines in Illume)-- he did a great job on DR with the guitar.

I like the "Silver Girl" demo marginally better than what ended up on SYW, but the song wasn't good to begin with. "She was a silver girl, lost in a high tech world..."

As far as the rest of the production on SYW, I didn't care for what he did on "Illume." However, I'm in the minority and love the finished product of "Smile At You." She could never achieve vocally what we all know and love from the old demos, so I thought Lindsey did a nice job with it. I agree with you regarding "Destiny Rules." I heard it on the XM channel, and his production was stellar.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by GypsySorcerer

I like the "Silver Girl" demo marginally better than what ended up on SYW, but the song wasn't good to begin with. "She was a silver girl, lost in a high tech world..."

As far as the rest of the production on SYW, I didn't care for what he did on "Illume." However, I'm in the minority and love the finished product of "Smile At You." She could never achieve vocally what we all know and love from the old demos, so I thought Lindsey did a nice job with it. I agree with you regarding "Destiny Rules." I heard it on the XM channel, and his production was stellar.

Loved his production on Smile at you, Illume, thrown down, Destiny Rules.Her lyrics were god awful. What is he supposed to do with someone who won’t take suggestions.

[jwd]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

That’s what she said. The others said they got John to vote with them to force Lindsey out.

Can anyone post a link to the video or article where this is stated? I'm really curious about this. I don't remember that.

It might mean she didn’t know ousting Lindsey was in the cards.

Or maybe she knew it was a possibility, but she didn't know it actually happened. Meaning she was part of the discussion, but didn't know the trigger had been pulled.

We’re all only fans, and none of us are qualified to answer that question. All I’m saying is that based on all that has been said up until now, it’s pretty clear that Christine was not part of the decision to oust Lindsey, and based on the tone of what she has said, she was not especially happy about it. But, Mick and John are her family, and she’ll always pick them over the others. That’s just a reality within Fleetwood Mac, especially at this stage.

A lot of speculation going on. No one knows exactly what went down. I'd say it's fair enough that Christine was one who didn't want to get rid of Lindsey. But I believe she concurred with the bands' decision to based on the touring conflict. We all know how eager she was, once she got back in FM to get on the road and tour. She was full tilt in the band touring, and recording. A shame that never happened with the Rumours 5. Thanks Stevie!

You got me. SYW, EP, and a couple of oldies tours are the shining pinnacle of the legacy of Fleetwood Mac.

The pinnacle(s) you're referring to will NEVER happen with FM again, no matter who is in the band. That's what discouraged Stevie so much from recording after SYW. She wanted a "Rumours" and a "Dreams". Lindsey was more about artistic expression and making a current statement from the band. It wasn't about sales or commercial success. You certainly can't fault him for Stevie not wanting to partake, and well, Christine was retired to the English countryside. GO LINDSEY! The band carried on and kept their name out there at least. SYW wasn't a bad record at all. And I'd dare say exposed some new fans to this animal known as FM. Let's not forget the documentary of the making of SYW and the Live in Boston concert DVD that were part of the whole ordeal. More good promotion for the band. Keeping the name out there. That's good for the legacy, no?

But, and this seems to be the point you’re missing, by saying “factions,” he implies that not everyone agreed with what happened. He’s implying that he doesn’t blame Christine with that statement.

He's probably referring, at least in part, to Christine. We don't know for sure what he meant when he said that. I do agree that she is probably the one that he has the least animosity towards since they seemed to be on the same page. That's why we got BuckVie.

Lindsey was lucky to have had the opportunity to join a well established band that had a solid record contract, was big enough to be getting played on the radio, was big enough to sell out places like the Fillmore, had been on national TV, was self-managed and free of external pressures, and was just under the radar enough where the label didn’t care what the band gave them. That what was left of that band was a rhythm section and a singer/songwriter used to being just a third should have been a dream come true. He basically had carte blanche within the confides of being in a band to do whatever he wanted. That’s a hell of an opportunity/outlet. The sad thing is that not only did he not appreciate it, he resented and felt held back by it.

And, what Fleetwood Mac brought to Buckingham Nicks was greater than the other way around. Christine’s songs sounded more refined with Stevie and Lindsey, which is expected, since they spent probably as much time recording that first album as they did all of the Bob Welch era albums combined, but the fundamentals of her songs weren’t that all that different. “Over My Head” could have just as easily been on HAHTF. “Rhiannon,” OTOH, went from sounding a typical bar band song with Buckingham Nicks to sounding like an epic rock masterpiece with Fleetwood Mac.

I've always felt, and most people do, that the sum of the Rumours 5 has always been greater than the parts. That's why a lot of us are so disappointed that they couldn't rise above this latest conflict and give us some new music and a proper tour. They did indeed lose their perspective.

If Lindsey had left after they decided to call the the album something other than Fleetwood and not fed us that “it just felt like a duet album” line of crap, I might be inclined to agree, but Lindsey is the one who said close your eyes, grab the money, and run. So, he’s not exactly pure in that regard, either.

Well if I was Lindsey I'd take the money too! But he was the one who wanted more for FM. Not just to be some touring cash cow operating machine. Is it his fault that Stevie didn't want to record new music with the band? Sometimes you have to be a little politically correct to try to preserve what you feel you have left in the band. Maybe hoping for different outcomes in the future?

[jwd]

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

Lindsey wanted a final Fleetwood Mac album more than anyone. It's ridiculous to say he was gunning for the money from the tours. No doubt he definitely wanted the money and that had a big part, but he was the main one actually pushing to make an album and put out something new. He wanted the album for years and it didn't happen and I'm sure he was very frustrated by it.

I TOTALLY agree with you!

[jwd]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I sympathize with him on that, but if I’m being honest, Stevie may have a point about his production style. It is fairly sui generis and not necessarily appropriate for her songs. I’ve listened to some of the demos, and I can see where she would want something more simple and straight forward. “Silver Girl” is a good example. It didn’t need to be that produced. However, she should have been more involved with that album if she wanted something different for her songs.

Simple solution. Hire other producers? At least for her songs.

[elle]

Originally Posted by jwd

Simple solution. Hire other producers? At least for her songs.

he did, remember? Mitchell Froom.

wouldn't it be a complete irony (and another FU to Lindsey! something they specialize in these days) if Fakewood end up recording and get Froom as producer?


btw Campbell groups call the band now Finnwood Mike.

[Storms123]

Originally Posted by elle

he did, remember? Mitchell Froom.

wouldn't it be a complete irony (and another FU to Lindsey! something they specialize in these days) if Fakewood end up recording and get Froom as producer?


btw Campbell groups call the band now Finnwood Mike.

This is better than Crowded Mac and the Heartbreakers. LOL

[jwd]

Originally Posted by elle

he did, remember? Mitchell Froom.

wouldn't it be a complete irony (and another FU to Lindsey! something they specialize in these days) if Fakewood end up recording and get Froom as producer?


btw Campbell groups call the band now Finnwood Mike.

I vaguely remember different people coming in to mix, but I wasn't sure about producers. So what does Stevie have to bitch about?!

Finnwood Mike, that is hilarious!

[SteveMacD]

Crowded House of Cards

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

For me it's the complete other way around! I listened to some songs off ITM a while ago and I remember vividly noticing that her voice was different. Something about it was just... different to me. She sounded a lot more British than usual? She's obviously aging (her voice live is veeeeeeeeery hit or miss) so it makes sense that her voice would be tweaked but I honestly thought it sounds more soft/natural on the BM album.

Also it wasn't exactly a few years. It was 12 years before.

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

A few years? It was more like twelve years.

Originally Posted by secondhandchain

Yeah it's been quite a long while since ITM and she's no spring chicken. I think it's the other way around and that LB had to fool around with her voice to make it sound PASSIBLE. This is NOT LB's fault. I mean you have heard her voice live lately right? Love Chris, but girlfriends voice is shot AF.

yeah, but what was she doing most of that time? not wearing out her voice singing in concerts..... until she returned to the band.

Could be age, but then did her voice just drop out one day? It's still just weird to me.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by jwd

I vaguely remember different people coming in to mix, but I wasn't sure about producers. So what does Stevie have to bitch about?!

Finnwood Mike, that is hilarious!

and yet she always manages to find something....

BUT, now that Tom has died, she said she's going to "stop complaining"....oh, wait, she already blew that by complaining about Lindsey, but he got fired because of it so she should be dancing every day

[dreamsunwind]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

yeah, but what was she doing most of that time? not wearing out her voice singing in concerts..... until she returned to the band.

Could be age, but then did her voice just drop out one day? It's still just weird to me.

It makes complete sense to me that over the course of 12 years an already 'older' person's voice is going to change...

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by jwd

Can anyone post a link to the video or article where this is stated? I'm really curious about this. I don't remember that.

I know I read it somewhere. We’ve been inundated with so much that I don’t remember where I saw it. Still, the only two who’ve publicly justified why Lindsey had to go are Stevie and Mick. John hasn’t said anything beyond he likes the new guys and Christine said she wasn’t part of the decision. If majority rules, and Christine wasn’t part of it, it’s not hard to read between the lines.

Or maybe she knew it was a possibility, but she didn't know it actually happened. Meaning she was part of the discussion, but didn't know the trigger had been pulled.

Again, not something any of us will ever be qualified to know.

A lot of speculation going on. No one knows exactly what went down. I'd say it's fair enough that Christine was one who didn't want to get rid of Lindsey. But I believe she concurred with the bands' decision to based on the touring conflict. We all know how eager she was, once she got back in FM to get on the road and tour. She was full tilt in the band touring, and recording. A shame that never happened with the Rumours 5. Thanks Stevie!

But, Stevie’s reluctance is nothing new. I agree she should have been booted on principle, but the reality is she’s the money and she’s close to Mick.

The pinnacle(s) you're referring to will NEVER happen with FM again, no matter who is in the band.

Hence why, if it’s not the classic lineup, at least it’s got top shelf talent and perhaps a chance to hear some favorites that haven’t been played in decades.

Keeping the name out there. That's good for the legacy, no?

Is it? Jim Kale, the bassist for The Guess Who, owns the name and goes out on tour with a bunch of guys who weren’t in that band’s classic lineup. Meanwhile, Burton Cummings and Randy Bachman formed their own duo to go out and play the classics because they don’t have the legal right to the name, even though Burton was the lead singer for all of their hits. It would be like Pete Townshend and Roger Daltry not being able to call themselves The Who.

Regardless, Fleetwood Mac was largely on life support after 2004, and became little more than an oldies act. I’d much rather have had a new band like Buckingham Fleetwood McVie creating new, viable music than reanimating the bloated corpse that Fleetwood Mac had become every few years. When the most exciting to happen to a band is the return of someone that made it possible to hear different old songs, and effectively giving us a proper tour for TITN, it’s hard for me to be overly sentimental for that period.

I've always felt, and most people do, that the sum of the Rumours 5 has always been greater than the parts. That's why a lot of us are so disappointed that they couldn't rise above this latest conflict and give us some new music and a proper tour. They did indeed lose their perspective.

Their perspective is the bag of money.

[Dr.Brown]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

...Their perspective is the bag of money.

I agree. The following is from the thread "Stevie as scapegoat" in the Stevie Nicks forum with a nice recap from Murrow and my response.

Originally Posted by Murrow

I've expressed some of this in other threads but this seems more appropriate for the purpose.

Yes I do blame her for a lot.

2005 or so: I'm not doing another Mac album as the only female.

2014: Can we delay Mac activity even though Chris is back cos I've booked studio time.

One tour later

2016: I don't want to do a Mac album period.

My considered opinion is that Mick should have said "We're not waiting" to her in 2016 (better still 2014) the same way he claims he's done with Lindsey.

More than anything I blame Mick. He's just got too much of a soft spot for Stevie to put his foot down with her about anything these days. Did he seriously think having BOTH those two back in the band was going to work for any great length of time. All it produced was 20 years of jack s*** apart from Say You Will and that poxy excuse for an EP.

Mick's soft spot is that he knows which side his bread is buttered on, realizing that an FM with Stevie means much more money in his wallet than one without. This is why so many are disgusted - this once great band has been reduced to nothing more than a cash cow for him. Witness his charging fans $600 a pop plus fees for a brief meeting (ticket price not included!) as part of what I call his "Meet & Fleece" program.

There are also those who are very disappointed with Christine as I am but I'm certain that in an earlier era Christine would have been much more outspoken. The thing is she's now pushing 75 and age sadly does take its toll.

[SteveMacD]

I agree with everything Murrow said, which is why I was mad last year. What’s happening now is hardly a surprise, except that they got amazing talent this time around.