Article re: Buckingham open to return to FM

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

It also had “Runnin’ Down A Dream,” “I Won’t Back Down,” and “Yer So Bad” and went on to sell five million copies.

I remember. You couldn't get away from those songs, even if you tried.

[BigAl84]

He crossed camp Stevie by releasing the album with Christine. Stevie didn't want to do a Fleetwood Mac record and she didn't want the press acknowledging her absence from the project either. The only thing that would have made her happy was if they shelved the entire project for good. It didn't matter how nice they tried to spin it and let Stevie off the hook, she was pissed that the other 4 members of the band proceeded to release the album because it ultimately made her look bad to a certain degree. Plus it displayed the power-shift that was occurring within the band. She wasn't able to call the shots on this one.

Edited:
Irving was probably pissed as well because he was banking on a Fleetwood Mac pay-day that never happened because of the Stevie-Lindsey drama. So yeah...I bet Irving blames Lindsey for Stevie not wanting to do a Fleetwood Mac album and then mucking up the big touring plans. Irving was left with a tour that costed them money between the settlement and ticket sale issues.

I think Irving was naive to think he could waltz into Fleetwood Mac and run things the way he did with The Eagles after Frey passed. The dynamics of that band are entirely different than Fleetwood Mac.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Yeah I never understood that either. I don't remember, was Irving already managing Stevie when Lindsey came onboard? If so, that's insane that he thought that was a good idea. Maybe he thought it would be easier to navigate Fleetwood Mac projects if Irving managed both of them and it was all under one roof?

I can only conclude that the majority of conversations leading up to Lindsey moving over to Irving must have taken place with Irving's staff and not Irving himself. His staff must of blown a lot of smoke up his a** and somehow convinced him Irving was the right fit. What was Irving's angle!? It's pretty clear that Lindsey's solo work was never as commercial, what's in it for him? Complete business control over Fleetwood Mac I suppose.

Irving's been on Team Stevie since the early 80s... maybe even earlier. He was managing the Eagles (and others) back then and presumably that is how Stevie met him, but maybe somebody knows different.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

He crossed camp Stevie by releasing the album with Christine. Stevie didn't want to do a Fleetwood Mac record and she didn't want the press acknowledging her absence from the project either. The only thing that would have made her happy was if they shelved the entire project for good. It didn't matter how nice they tried to spin it and let Stevie off the hook, she was pissed that the other 4 members of the band proceeded to release the album because it ultimately made her look bad to a certain degree. Plus it displayed the power-shift that was occurring within the band. She wasn't able to call the shots on this one. Irving was probably pissed as well because he was banking on a Fleetwood Mac album pay-day and that never happened because of the Stevie-Lindsey drama, then it was released without his client (Stevie) which put more salt on the wound. So yeah...I bet Irving blames Lindsey for the collapse his big Fleetwood Mac payday. Instead he and his client (Stevie) were left with a tour that costed them money between the settlement and ticket sale issues.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Your point that Azoff blamed Lindsey for not calling Buck/Vie a FM album, I don’t make the connection. A FM album wouldn’t make that much money, certainly not what a tour would. And wouldn’t Azoff have still made money off the album since he was Lindsey’s manager at the time? And he was left with a tour without Lindsey because the band fired him, apparently with Azoff’s approval/encouragement. The band wanted Lindsey out so much they settled almost immediately. They made so much money from the tour, even if they settled for $14 million, they still made a ton of money. And we know they settled for less than $14 million because that was what he was asking- I wouldn’t be surprised if they settled for $10 million, but they must have thought it was worth it.

No way for any of us to know for sure, but I think instead of it being one or two big issues, it was several things that happened along the way that finally led to Stevie and Irving saying enough. Doesn’t mean that it was right, but that’s my where my vote is.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by bwboy

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Your point that Azoff blamed Lindsey for not calling Buck/Vie a FM album, I don’t make the connection. A FM album wouldn’t make that much money, certainly not what a tour would. And wouldn’t Azoff have still made money off the album since he was Lindsey’s manager at the time? And he was left with a tour without Lindsey because the band fired him, apparently with Azoff’s approval/encouragement. The band wanted Lindsey out so much they settled almost immediately. They made so much money from the tour, even if they settled for $14 million, they still made a ton of money. And we know they settled for less than $14 million because that was what he was asking- I wouldn’t be surprised if they settled for $10 million, but they must have thought it was worth it.

No way for any of us to know for sure, but I think instead of it being one or two big issues, it was several things that happened along the way that finally led to Stevie and Irving saying enough. Doesn’t mean that it was right, but that’s my where my vote is.

I just revisited what I wrote and I did kind of contradict myself. I said Fleetwood Mac album when I meant tour.

What I meant is the release of the BuckVie album started the bad mojo between Lindsey and Stevie which eventually resulted in the Music Cares meltdown and Lindsey's departure. Irving was pissed because he had another Fleetwood Mac cash grab tour in the works and it went sideways. It was several issues, Stevie had her own issues and Irving was pissed about his business objectives being disrupted. Irving knew with Lindsey out of the picture, the tour financials could look different.

The band settling quickly had nothing to do with how much they wanted him out - it's because they literally had no case. Had it gone to court, they would have lost. Then they would be paying out Lindsey PLUS all the legal fees of going to court.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

The band settling quickly had nothing to do with how much they wanted him out - it's because they literally had no case. Had it gone to court, they would have lost. Then they would be paying out Lindsey PLUS all the legal fees of going to court.

Not to mention the media mess that would have only gotten worse.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Not to mention the media mess that would have only gotten worse.

How quickly they settled revealed just how effing dirty the whole thing really was. Lindsey had his paper trail and he knew it. It's still shocking that he offered to fly out to Hawaii and talk things over and Mick gave him the cold shoulder. It's nauseating how much Mick became Stevie's pet.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

How quickly they settled revealed just how effing dirty the whole thing really was. Lindsey had his paper trail and he knew it. It's still shocking that he offered to fly out to Hawaii and talk things over and Mick gave him the cold shoulder. It's nauseating how much Mick became Stevie's pet.

That part!!! I was more upset about the way they handled it.
She couldn't even be bothered to face him and say, "We need to let the shippers know that we really can't stand each other. Oh and you're fired!!"

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

I just revisited what I wrote and I did kind of contradict myself. I said Fleetwood Mac album when I meant tour.

The band settling quickly had nothing to do with how much they wanted him out - it's because they literally had no case. Had it gone to court, they would have lost. Then they would be paying out Lindsey PLUS all the legal fees of going to court.

Got it, I see what you mean now.

I absolutely agree FM had no case. If I recall correctly, and if it was true, all the contracts for the tour had been signed, and then Lindsey was fired. He should have been paid for that tour, legally and morally. I don’t think if they had gone to court it would have hurt their reputation that much- I mean, this is a band that had rampant drug use, alcoholism, affairs within and outside of the band, members that left for cults, etc, etc. I agree nasty stuff would have been alleged, and by both sides, but I don’t think those allegations would have shocked the public. “Lindsey smirked at me; Stevie didn’t like it that I wanted Say You Will to be a double album; Lindsey treated me differently than he would have Bob Dylan; Stevie refused to record with us and just wanted to tour for the money.” I mean, it’s definitely petty but hardly going to outrage the average person.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

Irving's been on Team Stevie since the early 80s... maybe even earlier. He was managing the Eagles (and others) back then and presumably that is how Stevie met him, but maybe somebody knows different.

Yes. According to Mick, it was just finishing the Tusk tour. Or at least it's when he learned about it:

Less than a month after the end of the Tusk tour, I realized I was in trouble with the rest of the band.

By this time, other managers began to enter the picture. John, Chris, and I were still with Mickey Shapiro, but Stevie had signed with the tough industry mogul Irving Azoff, who managed the Eagles at the time, to represent her with regard to her looming solo career. Lindsey was with somebody else.

The sh** hit the fan at a business meeting held to overview the Tusk tour with reference to the European leg. This turned into a vitriolic review of my behavior and management skills. The basic complaint, of course, was that we'd been on the road for eight months and hadn't made much money.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

How quickly they settled revealed just how effing dirty the whole thing really was. Lindsey had his paper trail and he knew it. It's still shocking that he offered to fly out to Hawaii and talk things over and Mick gave him the cold shoulder. It's nauseating how much Mick became Stevie's pet.

Mick is a PIG. He'll do whatever to make a buck. He knows Old Goatsy is his best chance at making a buck.

You know what they should do? He should just become Old Goatsy's drummer. Seriously.

[BLY]

[QUOTE=HomerMcvie;1292203]



I’m actually surprised he hasn’t become Stevie’s drummer by now.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by Villavic

Yes. According to Mick, it was just finishing the Tusk tour. Or at least it's when he learned about it:

Less than a month after the end of the Tusk tour, I realized I was in trouble with the rest of the band.

By this time, other managers began to enter the picture. John, Chris, and I were still with Mickey Shapiro, but Stevie had signed with the tough industry mogul Irving Azoff, who managed the Eagles at the time, to represent her with regard to her looming solo career. Lindsey was with somebody else.

The sh** hit the fan at a business meeting held to overview the Tusk tour with reference to the European leg. This turned into a vitriolic review of my behavior and management skills. The basic complaint, of course, was that we'd been on the road for eight months and hadn't made much money.

I’ve always thought it was suspect that Mick glossed over that period- he used the excuses like putting grand pianos in hotel rooms, or repainting the rooms, etc. but we all know it was just as possible he was just as bad with the band money as he was with his own. Or maybe he was deliberately taking a little extra? And notice how he says the meeting was about his “behavior” as well as management skills, but never elaborated what those behaviors were.

Those would have the kind of details I’d love to read about.

[jbrownsjr]

[QUOTE=BLY;1292204]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I’m actually surprised he hasn’t become Stevie’s drummer by now.

With a collar around his neck.

[OutsideTheRain]

I may be open to one final send off.
A Buckingham Nicks set.
Fleetwood (and John McVie if he's up for it) coming out for a tribute to Christine to close out the show.
Recorded in an intimate "VH1 Storytellers" type format.