WAS SAY YOU WILL A BOMB? Please Read

[HomerMcvie]

Other than Oh Well, their catalog only exists, from 1975-1987. No new material in the past 24 years.

God, has it really been 24 years, since 1987? Kill.me.now.

[Artemis]

I'd argue that their catalogue only goes from 1975-1982. Apart from Big Love, do they play any songs post-Mirage?

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Artemis

I'd argue that their catalogue only goes from 1975-1982. Apart from Big Love, do they play any songs post-Mirage?

Big Love, is the only reason I included Tango.


Not an oldies act? Yeah, whatever.

ARTISTS, create. Not rest on laurels, from 35 years ago.

[elle]

Originally Posted by tilthefirefades

They also played WTWCT, Say Goodbye, and Goodbye Baby. That makes 6 songs if you don't include DR or RTTG since they were barely played. That is no more or less than the average amount of new material they have always played.

thanks, you are right, of course... apparently i have a very selective memory - i kept thinking over LiB doc songs and just couldn't remember these (maybe i blocked them out b/c i really dislike SG and WTWCT, and i like silver springs more than GB as the show closer)

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

FM needed to use Thrown Down as the lead single.Period. not Peace keeper (bwa ba ba bwa bwa bwa) It was at a time when people were being obnoxious about ANYONE using the word "peace", it meant you were against the war which for a while was a bit taboo. now it would be fine. i remember comments on aol musics first listen people were like "take your PEACE somewhere else." which is dumb, cause the lyrics are actually "take no prisoners only kill"

I remember watching Regis at the time and Lisa Rinna was on his show as a guest co-host and she was wearing "peace" earrings and he actually took offense to that. She didn't say anything about politics and, Regis and Kelly being a tame, daytime show, controversial subjects are rarely raised. So, even though she didn't approach the subject of war, Rinna just had on peace earrings and her hair was short, so you could see them and Regis made a dark, disapproving comment about needing to support the troops. I couldn't believe it.

Michele

[elle]

with many people here saying mac should've played it safe in 2003, and have their usual love-related song instead of peacekeeper as the first SYW single, the whole discussion reminded me of something that Dave Stewart tweeted few days ago:

"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail"

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by elle

with many people here saying mac should've played it safe in 2003, and have their usual love-related song instead of peacekeeper as the first SYW single, the whole discussion reminded me of something that Dave Stewart tweeted few days ago:

"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail"

I actually am not advocating they should have played it safe at all. I just think they could have made a far better statement had they whittled the material down to what they actually wanted to say. There are just so many songs, and so many directions on the album. I think the more experimental tracks are actually my favorites: Illume, Murrow, Come, Smile At You, etc. I totally applaud the band for being so brash as to still try forward movement at that point in their career. At the same time, forward movement is not necessarily always movement in the right direction. The whole problem with SYW was Lindsey brought fully finished songs to the table, and splice those next to the Stevie songs which were fully fleshed out within the confines of Fleetwood Mac. Hence their disjointed sound when listened to next to one another. I think they could have worked with that though, had they simply trimmed several excess songs... and come up with a definitive direction/sound. The only reason I feel Destiny Rules should have been the lead single is it was safe and identifiable for record listeners. You hook them with that, then draw them into what you're really about and wanting to say . Just my two cents of course

[chiliD]

Thanks, Homie, for carrying the torch. I'll go back to my recliner and let my protege' handle this one.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Thanks, Homie, for carrying the torch. I'll go back to my recliner and let my protege' handle this one.

You taught me well, my dear mentor.

Someone has to smack these Chiffonheads into place!

[SN1948]

I agree that the main reason the Eagles album did better was because the Eagles have always been associated with country music and therefore they have a broader appeal than FM. The powers that be for the Eagles were brilliant to reallize that given their age that 10-25 year olds probably weren't going to be lining up to buy their album so they marketed them to a country audience. Not only does that audience buy CD's and shop at Walmart but they tend to be the most loyal (as compared to a pop/maistream one) and they have no problem with fact that their music is being sung by senior citizens. Even though the Eagles went more rock in the second half of their careers, they still managed to hang on to some of that audience, which is why I believe that their greatest hits I album sold a bizillion copies (it appeals to pop, country and rock audiences). They also played up that association by going on country award shows, radio stations and having their first single be a country song/video that was played on CMT. FM is at a much bigger disadvantage because they don't and have never had that audience. As for SYW, I like about a 1/3 of the songs. I think it would have been a better album if they had shortened it to about 10 songs, taken out their more avant-garde songs, and slowed down Say Goodbye (that is the best song but not so good of a record). It lost it's poignancy by being sped up to fast. When I hear that song from the Soundstage with L and S, all I can think is "Why Lindsey didn't you do it this way on the album?"

[MissLadyLoki]

I don't have much to say here, on account of I never heard Say You Will, but I guess the combo of country and Walmart (even though I much prefer Target and that the best part of it is the website People of Walmart ) does seem to equal promotional success in a world where big-box stores are dominating the market and country music sells with the Mac's primary target market, but the idea of a country-type single in a Walmart exclusive CD could work in racking up sales. Also, to attract the younger Mac fans out there who aren't too keen on buying CDs and the Internet is very important for any company that wants to promote themselves these days, the album and the indiviual tracks could be downloaded in Mp3 form from the Walmart website, just like what Amazon does now. Perhaps, although I dunno if this'll work, the album could also be expanded to music download company-things, such as iTunes and Napster, which can also serve as a bigger reach to the target audience

Now, since I don't have much else to say and that i finished playing marketing nerd (believe me, gimme some time and I could probably end up creating a whole IMC for a Mac album lol)... *grabs popcorn and lawnchair* anyone else who finds this thread entertaining may join me

EDIT: Also, I'm sorry if I rambled a bit too much here, I really do love business (I'm not in it just for the money, I really do enjoy marketing, especially the promotions aspect) and I just got a bit started

[Sahara]

Really interesting thread, I particularly enjoyed your posts, Louie, insightful as always and I loved the siblings analogy!

Although I actually do like every track on SYW (yes, even Silver Girl, leave me alone ) and love many of them, I agree that a trimming down would have helped the whole thing cohere a bit better. Sadly, the tracks that probably would have gone are likely those experimental tracks mentioned above that also fall in my favourites list.

I also thought it was a real pity that no SYW songs were played on Unleashed. Even one would have been nice and Everybody Finds Out, Running Through The Garden or especially Thrown Down would have been big crowd-pleasers. (Though Come would have been my personal choice to bring back. )

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

My two cents...

Say You Will w/o Christine = not good

Band members should not be "producing" their albums.

That's why I am encouraged by Lindsey speaking about hiring a producer for Fleetwood Mac for their next album. Great idea Lindsey!!!

He put too much of a heavy stamp of his esoteric, less accessible style on Say You Will, which is more akin and suited to his solo albums.

[sjpdg]

Ok, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest what might have been a better make up for "SYW".

What's The World Coming To
Illume
Thrown Down
Murrow Turning Over In His Grave
Love Minus Zero/No Limit
Say You Will
Peacekeeper
Come
Not Make Believe
Steal Your Heart Away (alt. version with more Christine audible)
Smile At You
Bleed To Love Her
Destiny Rules
Say Goodbye
Goodbye Baby
Everybody Finds Out (B-side to Say You Will or Destiny Rules)

I also think the lead single might have done well being "Bleed To Love Her". It would have been familiar to fans from "The Dance", thus accessible, would probably have gotten some decent airplay, and then the next one could have been "Peacekeeper", followed by "What's The World Coming To", then "Say You Will" and "Thrown Down".

Just a thought.

One last thing: Very Happy New Year to everyone here on "The Ledge"!

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by SN1948

I agree that the main reason the Eagles album did better was because the Eagles have always been associated with country music and therefore they have a broader appeal than FM. The powers that be for the Eagles were brilliant to reallize that given their age that 10-25 year olds probably weren't going to be lining up to buy their album so they marketed them to a country audience. Not only does that audience buy CD's and shop at Walmart but they tend to be the most loyal (as compared to a pop/maistream one) and they have no problem with fact that their music is being sung by senior citizens. Even though the Eagles went more rock in the second half of their careers, they still managed to hang on to some of that audience, which is why I believe that their greatest hits I album sold a bizillion copies (it appeals to pop, country and rock audiences). They also played up that association by going on country award shows, radio stations and having their first single be a country song/video that was played on CMT. FM is at a much bigger disadvantage because they don't and have never had that audience. As for SYW, I like about a 1/3 of the songs. I think it would have been a better album if they had shortened it to about 10 songs, taken out their more avant-garde songs, and slowed down Say Goodbye (that is the best song but not so good of a record). It lost it's poignancy by being sped up to fast. When I hear that song from the Soundstage with L and S, all I can think is "Why Lindsey didn't you do it this way on the album?"

Ahhh...but, had they marketed themselves appropriately during Bekka & Billy's tenure, they could've not only reinvented themselves in the Post-Buckingham Nicks era, but attracted a whole NEW audience (like they did 20 years earlier) and, who knows, could've had an album that would've challenged Rumours numbers.

Oh...sorry, Homie...I should've left that one for you.