The Just Thought I'd Share Thread

[Zombie]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

The reason I mentioned a dietician was because "stars" have the money
(or should have) for someone to take care of them in that way. Of course
over eating is not the only cause, but it usually plays a significant
role.

And to relate to you saying I implied that "fat people are fat because somehow
they don't know any better and need someone to tell them..." Well sometimes
when it comes to stars THEY DO NEED SOMONE TO TELL THEM. The reason I
bring up Elvis in this thread is because he didn't have people around him to tell
him the truth. His people hid the bad reviews he got in the last few years of his
life. Did Elvis know he was in trouble? I'm sure he did, but he seemed obilvious
to just how bad it was (had he a realistic view of himself, he never would have
agreed to the last TV special in '77).

And I do care what you and Buttercookie think. Very few of my post are harsh
on people (stars). And a few of my best friends in real life are overweight. And
one of them can at least blame his love of food for the problem. Sometimes you
just have to back away from the table. Maybe that third helping of pie isn't good
for whomever.

Okay. Let me try this again.

Just because you have the money for something does not mean you have to spend it on that something. If someone has the money to hire a dietician and wants to do that, then more power to them. If they choose not to spend their money on a dietician, then more power to them on that, as well. It is the person's individual choice.

Fat shaming is not an effective motivator. Making someone feel bad for how they look is not an effective motivator. And just because Elvis may have had issues that left him unable to see things clearly does not mean that all overweight famous people are the same way.

And I don't care if ALL of your friends are fat - having a fat friend does not mean you're not showing bias, like just having a black friend doesn't mean someone's not still capable of being racist.

If your friend's love of food is a "problem," it is HIS "problem," not yours, unless he asks you for help in changing his eating habits. But no one has to back away from the table just because you think they should, and whether or not that third helping of pie is a "good" idea, if I want it, I'm going to eat it - it's my body, it's nothing to do with you.

Do you see what I am saying? Just because you have a problem with what other people weigh does not mean that they have to have that same problem with their own weight. And it doesn't mean you get to make judgments.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by jannieC

Ditto to every single thing Zombie said.


How nice for your overweight best friends to have such a supportive and non judgmental friend. Are you serious when you say this? From where I sit, I see lots of folks struggling with a few lbs (or ten or twenty...). Someone who is significantly overweight is not necessary going to be able to "back away from the table." Life is not black and white and things are not always so simple.

The fact that you mentioned it to begin with and then are trying to back peddle out of the situation is what gets me. When I see an overweight person in a belly shirt, I sometimes wish I could offer my advice, especially if it's a young girl. But then, I kind of feel that way about belly shirts on ANYONE, for that matter. I haven't seen the performance you are referring to, but I am thinking that whatever Ann Wilson was wearing, it was not obscene or inappropriate.

You have every right to have issues with other people's appearance- just be prepared for the backlash and own up to it.

First off I haven't said anything to my friends that are very overweight.
I'm about as good as Elvis' friends when it comes to that, a big chicken. And
it would be a lot easier to "feel" for them if they themselves didn't moan about
it. When people talk about losing weight and don't do anything about it, what
do you think is going to happen? And I'm talking about people I know, not
Ms. Wilson. And btw I'm talking about grown ups here not children. I'd never
say anything to a child about their weight. I am not a mean person. Look through
my post.

As to what Ann was wearing you're right it wasn't obscene or inappropriate.
Don't try and put words into my mouth. I do a good enough job at getting in
trouble without you adding to it. I just thought she could wear something that
would make her look more appealing. Maybe I'm wrong.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by Zombie

Okay. Let me try this again.

If your friend's love of food is a "problem," it is HIS "problem," not yours, unless he asks you for help in changing his eating habits. But no one has to back away from the table just because you think they should, and whether or not that third helping of pie is a "good" idea, if I want it, I'm going to eat it - it's my body, it's nothing to do with you.

Do you see what I am saying? Just because you have a problem with what other people weigh does not mean that they have to have that same problem with their own weight. And it doesn't mean you get to make judgments.

You say "unless he ask for my help". He's the one who brings his weight up, not
me. We've all got our own problems, I sure have my share. But if you hear a person
you know complaining about this particular problem, and then you see them eating
multiple helpings of food (at one of my parties). And then they wonder why they
can't lose weight???

I do see what you're saying though.

[jannieC]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

First off I haven't said anything to my friends that are very overweight.
I'm about as good as Elvis' friends when it comes to that, a big chicken. And
it would be a lot easier to "feel" for them if they themselves didn't moan about
it. When people talk about losing weight and don't do anything about it, what
do you think is going to happen? And I'm talking about people I know, not
Ms. Wilson. And btw I'm talking about grown ups here not children. I'd never
say anything to a child about their weight. I am not a mean person. Look through
my post.

As to what Ann was wearing you're right it wasn't obscene or inappropriate.
Don't try and put words into my mouth. I do a good enough job at getting in
trouble without you adding to it. I just thought she could wear something that
would make her look more appealing. Maybe I'm wrong.

I didn't say that you were talking about children. I said that *I* struggle when I see a teenager wearing something that is unflattering and sexist. And I also didn't imply that you spoke in any manner to your very overweight friends. What I was implying is that most people wouldn't want their best friends thinking thoughts about them like, "step away from the table."

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by BTFLCHLD

she is a very private artist; no personal website, little news, etc. This fansite is where one can find news... http://www.ronstadt-linda.com/

Thanks BTFCHLD.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by jannieC

I didn't say that you were talking about children. I said that *I* struggle when I see a teenager wearing something that is unflattering and sexist. And I also didn't imply that you spoke in any manner to your very overweight friends. What I was implying is that most people wouldn't want their best friends thinking thoughts about them like, "step away from the table."

Sorry Jannie, I misread your comments in my haist.
I love stirring up stuff, but not this type of topic. But I have
to say if you were in my shoes and had heard about this weight
problem for most of your life, even if wrong you might have thought
the same thing too.

[jannieC]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

Sorry Jannie, I misread your comments in my haist.
I love stirring up stuff, but not this type of topic. But I have
to say if you were in my shoes and had heard about this weight
problem for most of your life, even if wrong you might have thought
the same thing too.

As I said, you are entitled to your own thoughts and feelings. I have spent too much time helping people through eating disorders. They are extremely hard to treat and the damage is deep.

As an aside, my sister is quite heavy (300+) and it has been difficult to watch her struggle with her weight. It can't have been easy for her to grow up with a younger brother and sister who were naturally thin with no effort. So, I get what it means to be around people who complain about their weight and then do nothing to make it better. However, I have come to learn that this is THEIR problem and it's not up to me to *fix* it (though that is usually my MO).

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

Sorry Jannie, I misread your comments in my haist.
I love stirring up stuff, but not this type of topic. But I have
to say if you were in my shoes and had heard about this weight
problem for most of your life, even if wrong you might have thought
the same thing too.

What a suprise! Looks like you've managed to piss off and offend people all over again.

[Zombie]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

You say "unless he ask for my help". He's the one who brings his weight up, not
me. We've all got our own problems, I sure have my share. But if you hear a person
you know complaining about this particular problem, and then you see them eating
multiple helpings of food (at one of my parties). And then they wonder why they
can't lose weight???

I do see what you're saying though.

All I have to go on here are your words - you didn't say anything about your friend's own opinions on his own weight, just that you have friends that are overweight and one of them can blame his love of food for it.

It is frustrating to listen to someone complain about something incessantly and then not do anything to change it, I agree. But that still doesn't give any of us the right to be the fat police for anyone else. We're all entitled to our opinions, be they valid or not - what's important is to try to be aware of our biases and think before we open our mouths. In my opinion, anyway.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

Watched Heart's Behind The Music (Remastered) tonight. Pretty cool, but I guess
they couldn't make the show if musicians didn't complain. And I'm not going to
say something rude about someone's weight, but she needs help with
wardrobe. Those black tent shirts aren't helping.

what a mess this turned into.

FWIW, i agree with this, and i took this as less a comment on her weight and more as a comment on her wardrobe, which, much like stevie's, does not flatter her figure.

while ann has no responsibility to wear clothes that i think look good, a person's wardrobe says a lot about their personality and how they feel about their body. ann's clothing seems like an expression of shame and an attempt to hide herself, which is really too bad because she is one of the most talented musicians alive and arguably the best voice in rock.

as far as the fat-shaming conversation goes ... i do feel that at a certain point, if you are a friend of a fat person who complains about his/her weight but does nothing about it, you have permission to say STFU and step away from the cheeseburger. and i say that as a fat person who has had a friend say STFU, step away from the cheeseburger, and get your fat ass on your bike. or in the pool. or out for a jog. i have no problem with this because at the end of the day, even if i do have a food-related pathology (never been diagnosed, but pringles disorder is a thing, right?), i recognize and accept the cause and effect relationship between overeating/sedentariness (not a word!) and being faaaaaat.

zombie - you are right that nobody who's fat is unaware of their fatness, but sometimes it does take a friend to point out contradictory behavior, such as continuing to overeat while complaining about being overweight. in my mind, that is the definition of a good friend - someone who is willing and strong enough to put the warm fuzzies aside for a moment and knock you upside the head with the cold, hard truth.

jannie - is there anyone on this planet who is nonjudgmental? calling someone judgmental these days has pretty much the same connotation as calling someone a bigot, which is a little absurd. everyone is judgmental, or, to use a less loaded term, discerning. everyone has a set of standards they hold themselves and others to, and implying that iamnotafraid is a bad friend because he bristles at his friend's refusal to change something that he himself is unhappy with is silly. what is the value in being "supportive" if it fosters a friend's unhappiness and unhealthiness?

somewhere along the way, "overweight" became a new untouchable minority in our culture, as if someone is simply born fat, just as someone is born black or born gay. of course there is a vast spectrum of body types - i could lose 60 pounds, but i'd still be a short, broad-shouldered broad, whereas my brother is a foot taller and has to work to put on weight - but by and large, having a BMI in the obese range is a choice. again, i am not speaking from a lofty, skinny-bitch perch. i have a BMI of 36. i have struggled with my weight since a kid named jason fitzgerald first called me fat in 4th grade (funnily enough, i was not fat then, but i am now). however, i now exercise every day. i have to think about everything i eat because i was not taught healthy eating habits growing up. i know firsthand that the damage of eating disorders is deep, and quitting overeating is different from, say, quitting smoking because we need to eat to survive. so a person with an eating disorder faces his/her demon multiple times a day. i get that. but i do not think that it is an insurmountable obstacle for most people, nor do i think that treating it as such is beneficial to anyone.

JTIS.

[jaycee]

By now I'm sure to have a reputation for (among other things) promoting free and open source software. Of course, vBulletin is not an example of that (I only found out tonight, as it were). MyBB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MyBB#Reviews), on the other hand, is. It has come to my attention that another FM forum has started somewhat recently, implementing MyBB - http://fleetwoodmacforum.com/thechain/. So, feel free to open an account there!
(Needless to say, I have absolutely no regrets about joining here, and won't suddenly stop visiting (much to everyone's dismay! ). )

[SapphireSister]

Originally Posted by carrie721

what a mess this turned into.

FWIW, i agree with this, and i took this as less a comment on her weight and more as a comment on her wardrobe, which, much like stevie's, does not flatter her figure.

while ann has no responsibility to wear clothes that i think look good, a person's wardrobe says a lot about their personality and how they feel about their body. ann's clothing seems like an expression of shame and an attempt to hide herself, which is really too bad because she is one of the most talented musicians alive and arguably the best voice in rock.

as far as the fat-shaming conversation goes ... i do feel that at a certain point, if you are a friend of a fat person who complains about his/her weight but does nothing about it, you have permission to say STFU and step away from the cheeseburger. and i say that as a fat person who has had a friend say STFU, step away from the cheeseburger, and get your fat ass on your bike. or in the pool. or out for a jog. i have no problem with this because at the end of the day, even if i do have a food-related pathology (never been diagnosed, but pringles disorder is a thing, right?), i recognize and accept the cause and effect relationship between overeating/sedentariness (not a word!) and being faaaaaat.

zombie - you are right that nobody who's fat is unaware of their fatness, but sometimes it does take a friend to point out contradictory behavior, such as continuing to overeat while complaining about being overweight. in my mind, that is the definition of a good friend - someone who is willing and strong enough to put the warm fuzzies aside for a moment and knock you upside the head with the cold, hard truth.

jannie - is there anyone on this planet who is nonjudgmental? calling someone judgmental these days has pretty much the same connotation as calling someone a bigot, which is a little absurd. everyone is judgmental, or, to use a less loaded term, discerning. everyone has a set of standards they hold themselves and others to, and implying that iamnotafraid is a bad friend because he bristles at his friend's refusal to change something that he himself is unhappy with is silly. what is the value in being "supportive" if it fosters a friend's unhappiness and unhealthiness?

somewhere along the way, "overweight" became a new untouchable minority in our culture, as if someone is simply born fat, just as someone is born black or born gay. of course there is a vast spectrum of body types - i could lose 60 pounds, but i'd still be a short, broad-shouldered broad, whereas my brother is a foot taller and has to work to put on weight - but by and large, having a BMI in the obese range is a choice. again, i am not speaking from a lofty, skinny-bitch perch. i have a BMI of 36. i have struggled with my weight since a kid named jason fitzgerald first called me fat in 4th grade (funnily enough, i was not fat then, but i am now). however, i now exercise every day. i have to think about everything i eat because i was not taught healthy eating habits growing up. i know firsthand that the damage of eating disorders is deep, and quitting overeating is different from, say, quitting smoking because we need to eat to survive. so a person with an eating disorder faces his/her demon multiple times a day. i get that. but i do not think that it is an insurmountable obstacle for most people, nor do i think that treating it as such is beneficial to anyone.

JTIS.

I'm staying out of this one but I must admit it's nice to see you write more than your usual one-liners! I mean really .

[ButterCookie]

Originally Posted by SapphireSister

I'm staying out of this one but I must admit it's nice to see you write more than your usual one-liners! I mean really .

I was about to say that! Carrie, you gotta start adding your two cents like that much more often

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by jaycee

By now I'm sure to have a reputation for (among other things) promoting free and open source software. Of course, vBulletin is not an example of that (I only found out tonight, as it were). MyBB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MyBB#Reviews), on the other hand, is. It has come to my attention that another FM forum has started somewhat recently, implementing MyBB - http://fleetwoodmacforum.com/thechain/. So, feel free to open an account there!
(Needless to say, I have absolutely no regrets about joining here, and won't suddenly stop visiting (much to everyone's dismay! ). )

if you only knew what you just opened up.

Originally Posted by SapphireSister

I'm staying out of this one but I must admit it's nice to see you write more than your usual one-liners! I mean really .

Originally Posted by ButterCookie

I was about to say that! Carrie, you gotta start adding your two cents like that much more often

hahaha thanks guys. i do have an idea or two rolling around in my skull.

[iamnotafraid]

Carrie is my new Hero.

Where were you early yesterday???

Now, it's time to play guitar.