The Ledge

Go Back   The Ledge > Main Forums > Rumours
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Make the Ads Go Away! Click here.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-23-2019, 01:17 PM
elle's Avatar
elle elle is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: DC
Posts: 10,908
Thumbs up Entitled jerks

nice and balanced, plainly stating the facts. not regurgitated pre-written fawning word-for-wording reusing of phrases sent out by fakewood PR team. example of how normal reviews look like.

https://www.free-times.com/music/wit...V-3_ErPSwktu3c

TOP STORY
LIVE REVIEW

Without Buckingham, Fleetwood Mac Offered as Many Gems as Duds

By Jordan Lawrence Feb 23, 2019 Updated 3 hrs ago


Fleetwood Mac; Colonial Life Arena, Columbia; Feb. 22, 2019

Fleetwood Mac ripped the bandaid right off.

The bass drum started that familiar thump, keying one of classic rock’s most recognizable slow builds, forming into the bittersweet anthem “The Chain.” But on this night, it wasn’t guitarist Lindsey Buckingham yowling out the opening number’s searing rejoinder — “And if you don't love me now / You will never love me again / I can still hear you saying / You would never break the chain.”

Friday in Columbia, New Zealander Neil Finn, best known for his time fronting Crowded House, took lead vocal duties. He and former Tom Petty backer Mike Campbell joined Fleetwood Mac following Buckingham’s dismissal last year. Finn never quite mustered the frenzied indignation that gives the song its spark, making for an uneven start to an equally uneven concert, one that offered stirring highs and frustrating missteps in equal measure.

Regardless of whether they feel they were justified in firing Buckingham, Mac’s remaining core of Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Stevie Nicks and Christine McVie broke the chain. And while their new hires brought impressive skills to the table, their insistence — displayed during “The Chain” — that they could sub Finn and Campbell in without losing anything marred some of the band’s best songs. It also made them seem like entitled jerks.

Though they’re both great guitarists, neither Finn nor Campbell could replicate the crisp, percussive fingerpicking that surges through the jauntier highlights from group’s famed '70s triptych of Fleetwood Mac, Rumours and Tusk. And Finn’s voice was somehow both too close and too far away from Buckingham’s — similar enough in tone, but lacking the nervy exuberance that made his predecessor's performances pop. To my ear, it was like taking a sip of milk that’s not quite fresh but not quite sour, still drinkable but with a nagging aftertaste.

As such, some songs were doomed to fail, and probably should have been avoided all together. The punchy hallmark “Second Hand News” fell frustratingly flat, with a vocal approach that felt blunted and mirthless compared to Buckingham, and with Campbell taking bluesy swings around the rhythm rather than playing quickly within it, zapping the song’s irrepressible momentum. Similar vocal issues plagued pre-encore closer “Go Your Own Way,” and while the sweeping kiss-off was still big and energetic, Finn and Nicks’ chummy glances fell limp compared to the fiery tension that came when she sang the song with her old flame.

To be fair to all involved, many of the songs really worked. The band stretched out some of its more smoldering epics, exploring heady extended grooves that Buckingham’s proclivity for zippy concision would have likely precluded, and exploiting the looser-limbed tendencies of the new members. The Nicks-led stunners “Rhiannon” and “Gold Dust Woman” benefited greatly from such treatments, and the singer filled each with the biting but beautiful presence that is her trademark. She might not be able to hit all the high notes anymore, but as she showed during an equally impressive — and occasionally spine-tingling — performance of the stripped-down ballad “Landslide,” hers remains one of rock ‘n’ roll’s most powerfully emotive voices.

Also exciting were performances of tunes from the blues band era that preceded Nicks and Buckingham’s conscription and the group’s chart-scorching second life in pop-rock. Nicks leaned into her trademark rasp for an appropriately murky and mystic trip through “Black Magic Woman” — yes, it was Fleetwood Mac, not Santana, that originated that one. And “Oh Well,” a blistering showcase for founding guitarist Peter Green, offered a similar opportunity for Campbell, who proved that his lackluster moments were due to fit, not skill. (Finn got his own well-deserved redemption during a swaying spin through the beautiful Crowded House hit “Don’t Dream It’s Over.”)

Still, it was in poor taste that the band made a point to sing the praises of former contributors like Green when introducing these dives into its back catalog, while never once giving a nod to Buckingham when playing his songs. Given the fact that the former guitarist underwent emergency open heart surgery earlier this month that may have permanently damaged his vocal cords, the omission felt particularly glaring.

Fleetwood Mac is a different band following Buckingham’s exit. And until it takes full ownership of that fact, it’ll never be more than a serviceable imitation of its former self.
__________________

"kind of weird: a tribute to the dearly departed from a band that can treat its living like trash"
Reply With Quote
.
  #2  
Old 02-23-2019, 01:55 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: California
Posts: 25,002
Default

Lindsey has a puckish personality that comes through in his songs that cannot be replicated. Imp, egotist, artist.

I would not say that he is known for zippy concision. Just the opposite.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-23-2019, 02:18 PM
elle's Avatar
elle elle is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: DC
Posts: 10,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
Lindsey has a puckish personality that comes through in his songs that cannot be replicated. Imp, egotist, artist.

I would not say that he is known for zippy concision. Just the opposite.
Lindsey was muzzled on recent FM tours. all his jazzing up of guitar parts have been heavily criticized as "showing off on Stevie's songs instead of letting her shine". it's hugely amusing to now read the glowing reviews of Campbell jazzing up some guitar parts that were oh so short in Lindsey's versions, from the same people who were spitting all over Lindsey when he tried to do way less. Lindsey was heavily criticized for "too many guitar solos" while the sole real guitar solo he was doing was ISA. people who criticized him for that must have only gone to pop shows (possibly disguised as rock) and live in a bubble.

that was a thing i loved so much when Christine came back - she let Lindsey improvise and jazz up if ever so slightly his guitar parts on her songs, the way Stevie so obviously disallowed him on hers. watch You Make Loving Fun from 2014-15 and especially BuckVie tours. you can see how much fun he's having playing a guitar on that song, how much he missed not having it in the set.
__________________

"kind of weird: a tribute to the dearly departed from a band that can treat its living like trash"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-23-2019, 05:46 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: California
Posts: 25,002
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elle View Post
Lindsey was muzzled on recent FM tours. all his jazzing up of guitar parts have been heavily criticized as "showing off on Stevie's songs instead of letting her shine". it's hugely amusing to now read the glowing reviews of Campbell jazzing up some guitar parts that were oh so short in Lindsey's versions, from the same people who were spitting all over Lindsey when he tried to do way less. Lindsey was heavily criticized for "too many guitar solos" while the sole real guitar solo he was doing was ISA. people who criticized him for that must have only gone to pop shows (possibly disguised as rock) and live in a bubble.

that was a thing i loved so much when Christine came back - she let Lindsey improvise and jazz up if ever so slightly his guitar parts on her songs, the way Stevie so obviously disallowed him on hers. watch You Make Loving Fun from 2014-15 and especially BuckVie tours. you can see how much fun he's having playing a guitar on that song, how much he missed not having it in the set.
Yes, but when they were apart Christine also complained about long guitar solos. What irked me is that she cast shade on Lindsey and then let her nephew Dan go to town. What in the devil? Of course, I think she was miffed when she said she hated guitar solos. I know she knows what LB’s guitar means to YMLF, for example.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-23-2019, 05:59 PM
aleuzzi's Avatar
aleuzzi aleuzzi is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 4,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
Yes, but when they were apart Christine also complained about long guitar solos. What irked me is that she cast shade on Lindsey and then let her nephew Dan go to town. What in the devil? Of course, I think she was miffed when she said she hated guitar solos. I know she knows what LB’s guitar means to YMLF, for example.
I don’t see any contradiction in Christine’s attitude about guitar solos. For decades she and Lindsey (and before him Danny Kirwan) hated guitar solos that are improvised. Christine (and LB) like part playing—the excellent guitar solo on YMLF is NOT the kind of solo she was talking about in her ITM interviews. For example. That guitar part is a part with an identifiable melody and restrained number of bars. Dan Perfect’s guitar parts on ITM are partially influenced by LB—and he said so. Heck, even when Rick Vito was on board the solos never turned into the open-ended jamming solos Christine hates. If anything, her comments on the ITM interview show her to be pretty consistent to a fault: after decades of replays, a little more jamming and extension could really help some old FM tunes.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-23-2019, 06:14 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: California
Posts: 25,002
Default

But you also have the long live versions of ISA and NTF which she participated in and I do not think she did so grudgingly.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-23-2019, 06:18 PM
Macfan4life's Avatar
Macfan4life Macfan4life is online now
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Somewhere out in the back of your mind
Posts: 2,737
Default

LOL
Shouldn't this review be in the "current band" section?

The band is sort of a cover band of themselves. Stevie is used to keep the fans attention during Mac classic Black Magic Woman and even Crowded House's Don't Dream its Over. She is given lines to sing to make sure the audience does not run to the bathroom. That tells you all you need to know who is showing up at the concerts.
__________________

Still I believe.....BACKSTABBING AND BETRAYAL will show us how
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-23-2019, 08:06 PM
elle's Avatar
elle elle is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: DC
Posts: 10,908
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
LOL
Shouldn't this review be in the "current band" section?

The band is sort of a cover band of themselves. Stevie is used to keep the fans attention during Mac classic Black Magic Woman and even Crowded House's Don't Dream its Over. She is given lines to sing to make sure the audience does not run to the bathroom. That tells you all you need to know who is showing up at the concerts.
well i posted a review that was not all fawning about the current band in that section once and got ran out on the rail by all the "positive people" there. so i don't go there anymore since i have no interest in the "new band" and seeing anything about them. and also, i think at some point it was decided that any fawning about the "present band" goes in that forum and anything more realistic or even critical about them goes here. so here it is!

i'm sure FM propaganda machine is not happy they let this one slip through and will multiply their efforts from now till whenever their tour ends to keep insisting only their pre-written pre-supplied pr text of 4 x re reviews gets published.
__________________

"kind of weird: a tribute to the dearly departed from a band that can treat its living like trash"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-23-2019, 08:45 PM
button-lip's Avatar
button-lip button-lip is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Argentina
Posts: 2,038
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elle View Post
well i posted a review that was not all fawning about the current band in that section once and got ran out on the rail by all the "positive people" there. so i don't go there anymore since i have no interest in the "new band" and seeing anything about them. and also, i think at some point it was decided that any fawning about the "present band" goes in that forum and anything more realistic or even critical about them goes here. so here it is!

i'm sure FM propaganda machine is not happy they let this one slip through and will multiply their efforts from now till whenever their tour ends to keep insisting only their pre-written pre-supplied pr text of 4 x re reviews gets published.
Besides, this is a "we miss Lindsey" article, so I'm sure all the positive/we are happy like Stevie/we're selling out arenas people over there won't be happy to read anything supporting Lindsey. Because we're "oh, so much better!" without Lindsey. And we're still selling arenas without him. Because people only go to FM concerts to see Stevie.

With tickets still available 1 hour before the show, but still….


Anyway, so happy finally someone had the guts to face the FM PR machine.
__________________
"I think what you would say is that there were factions within the band that had lost their perspective. What that did was to harm the 43-year legacy that we had worked so hard to build, and that legacy was really about rising above difficulties in order to fulfill one's higher truth and one's higher destiny."
Lindsey Buckingham, May 11, 2018.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-23-2019, 09:24 PM
elle's Avatar
elle elle is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: DC
Posts: 10,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elle View Post
Fleetwood Mac ripped the bandaid right off.

The bass drum started that familiar thump, keying one of classic rock’s most recognizable slow builds, forming into the bittersweet anthem “The Chain.” But on this night, it wasn’t guitarist Lindsey Buckingham yowling out the opening number’s searing rejoinder — “And if you don't love me now / You will never love me again / I can still hear you saying / You would never break the chain.”

Friday in Columbia, New Zealander Neil Finn, best known for his time fronting Crowded House, took lead vocal duties. He and former Tom Petty backer Mike Campbell joined Fleetwood Mac following Buckingham’s dismissal last year. Finn never quite mustered the frenzied indignation that gives the song its spark, making for an uneven start to an equally uneven concert, one that offered stirring highs and frustrating missteps in equal measure.

Regardless of whether they feel they were justified in firing Buckingham, Mac’s remaining core of Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Stevie Nicks and Christine McVie broke the chain. And while their new hires brought impressive skills to the table, their insistence — displayed during “The Chain” — that they could sub Finn and Campbell in without losing anything marred some of the band’s best songs. It also made them seem like entitled jerks.

Though they’re both great guitarists, neither Finn nor Campbell could replicate the crisp, percussive fingerpicking that surges through the jauntier highlights from group’s famed '70s triptych of Fleetwood Mac, Rumours and Tusk. And Finn’s voice was somehow both too close and too far away from Buckingham’ssimilar enough in tone, but lacking the nervy exuberance that made his predecessor's performances pop. To my ear, it was like taking a sip of milk that’s not quite fresh but not quite sour, still drinkable but with a nagging aftertaste.

As such, some songs were doomed to fail, and probably should have been avoided all together. The punchy hallmark “Second Hand News” fell frustratingly flat, with a vocal approach that felt blunted and mirthless compared to Buckingham, and with Campbell taking bluesy swings around the rhythm rather than playing quickly within it, zapping the song’s irrepressible momentum. Similar vocal issues plagued pre-encore closer “Go Your Own Way,” and while the sweeping kiss-off was still big and energetic, Finn and Nicks’ chummy glances fell limp compared to the fiery tension that came when she sang the song with her old flame.

To be fair to all involved, many of the songs really worked. The band stretched out some of its more smoldering epics, exploring heady extended grooves that Buckingham’s proclivity for zippy concision would have likely precluded, and exploiting the looser-limbed tendencies of the new members. The Nicks-led stunners “Rhiannon” and “Gold Dust Woman” benefited greatly from such treatments, and the singer filled each with the biting but beautiful presence that is her trademark. She might not be able to hit all the high notes anymore, but as she showed during an equally impressive — and occasionally spine-tingling — performance of the stripped-down ballad “Landslide,” hers remains one of rock ‘n’ roll’s most powerfully emotive voices.

Also exciting were performances of tunes from the blues band era that preceded Nicks and Buckingham’s conscription and the group’s chart-scorching second life in pop-rock. Nicks leaned into her trademark rasp for an appropriately murky and mystic trip through “Black Magic Woman” — yes, it was Fleetwood Mac, not Santana, that originated that one. And “Oh Well,” a blistering showcase for founding guitarist Peter Green, offered a similar opportunity for Campbell, who proved that his lackluster moments were due to fit, not skill. (Finn got his own well-deserved redemption during a swaying spin through the beautiful Crowded House hit “Don’t Dream It’s Over.”)

Still, it was in poor taste that the band made a point to sing the praises of former contributors like Green when introducing these dives into its back catalog, while never once giving a nod to Buckingham when playing his songs. Given the fact that the former guitarist underwent emergency open heart surgery earlier this month that may have permanently damaged his vocal cords, the omission felt particularly glaring.

Fleetwood Mac is a different band following Buckingham’s exit. And until it takes full ownership of that fact, it’ll never be more than a serviceable imitation of its former self.
back to this article. i bolded all the little gems in it. all the stuff i felt just seeing / hearing little snippets from these shows, and why i know i would never be able to make it through the current band version of the show. and why i'm stunned that people who supposedly love Fleetwood Mac Classic band are blind and deaf to these things. it just makes no sense not to notice them. if you are solely Nicks fan, sure. if you are Green era or Mason era or Welch era fan, sure. but if you are classic era fan how can you not? if you love the Chain, something is very wrong with your ears if you don't hear exactly what this guy describes. and that's not being positive or negative, just realistic.
__________________

"kind of weird: a tribute to the dearly departed from a band that can treat its living like trash"
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-23-2019, 09:41 PM
lovethemac1's Avatar
lovethemac1 lovethemac1 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: center of Canada
Posts: 726
Default

Finally, a review that isn’t cut and paste.

I’ve noticed that many of the fans who post gushing reviews, also state that it’s their first FM concert. So they really haven’t got the Rumours 5 version to compare it to.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-23-2019, 10:09 PM
vivfox's Avatar
vivfox vivfox is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,388
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by button-lip View Post
Anyway, so happy finally someone had the guts to face the FM PR machine.
Reviewer was probably denied backstage access and decided to be revengeful.
__________________
 photo d754aa6e-1605-473c-895b-9665a3f17371_zpsrtovtrei.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-23-2019, 10:44 PM
button-lip's Avatar
button-lip button-lip is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Argentina
Posts: 2,038
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivfox View Post
Reviewer was probably denied backstage access and decided to be revengeful.
Yes, I’m sure there are no LB fans in Ohio.... Stevie would never allow it.
__________________
"I think what you would say is that there were factions within the band that had lost their perspective. What that did was to harm the 43-year legacy that we had worked so hard to build, and that legacy was really about rising above difficulties in order to fulfill one's higher truth and one's higher destiny."
Lindsey Buckingham, May 11, 2018.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-23-2019, 10:46 PM
button-lip's Avatar
button-lip button-lip is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Argentina
Posts: 2,038
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovethemac1 View Post
Finally, a review that isn’t cut and paste.

I’ve noticed that many of the fans who post gushing reviews, also state that it’s their first FM concert. So they really haven’t got the Rumours 5 version to compare it to.
50% of the current FM fans are AHS teens fans who are only there for witch Stevie...
__________________
"I think what you would say is that there were factions within the band that had lost their perspective. What that did was to harm the 43-year legacy that we had worked so hard to build, and that legacy was really about rising above difficulties in order to fulfill one's higher truth and one's higher destiny."
Lindsey Buckingham, May 11, 2018.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-24-2019, 12:29 AM
aleuzzi's Avatar
aleuzzi aleuzzi is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 4,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
But you also have the long live versions of ISA and NTF which she participated in and I do not think she did so grudgingly.
Sure, she enjoyed playing on those, but even those “extended” versions are really carefully woven parts. It’s never just jamming solos. I have watched the NTF live Mirage version countless times and marveled at how well-structured it all is. Extended, yes, but very much part playing with little room for improv. The same goes for the ISA live versions.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Disney Auctions Elisabete Gomes Tinker Bell Green Square Pin LE 100 Peter Pan
$674.99
Disney Auctions Elisabete Gomes Tinker Bell Green Square Pin LE 100 Peter Pan pictureLLADRO DISNEY PETER PAN BRAND NEW IN BOX #9328 LARGE GREEN COAT SAVE$ F/SH
$589.98
LLADRO DISNEY PETER PAN BRAND NEW IN BOX #9328 LARGE GREEN COAT SAVE$ F/SH picture2017 STAR WARS STELLAR PETER MAYHEW AS CHEWBACCA GREEN AUTO AUTOGRAPH CARD #8/20
$399.99
2017 STAR WARS STELLAR PETER MAYHEW AS CHEWBACCA GREEN AUTO AUTOGRAPH CARD #8/20 pictureINCREDIBLE HULK #393 CGC-SS 9.4 SIGNED PETER DAVID *30TH ANN GREEN FOIL ED* 1992
$352.47
INCREDIBLE HULK #393 CGC-SS 9.4 SIGNED PETER DAVID *30TH ANN GREEN FOIL ED* 1992 picture Peter Max Vintage 1960's Enamel Green Dutch Oven Pot- Original NEW IN BOX
$240.0
 Peter Max  Vintage 1960's Enamel Green Dutch Oven Pot- Original NEW IN BOX picture



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1995-2003 Martin and Lisa Adelson, All Rights Reserved