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  #1  
Old 05-11-2018, 09:17 PM
secret love secret love is offline
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Default Stevie as scapegoat

Hi everybody! (I'm Dr Nick...)
So this is a very contentious issue I'm going to open up here.
Stevie Nicks as scapegoat!
It appears that almost everything that is wrong with Fleetwood Mac is in some way, Stephanie Lynn Nicks' fault. Do you agree? Or partially agree, or disagree?
I'm not putting this out here to defend or to criticise Stevie. I'm raising the issue to get a range of perspectives, both positive for Stevie and negative against Stevie.
And if you want my opinion? Well I think she is largely the one stopping Fleetwood Mac recording new music since 2009. But I don't blame her for Lindsey for leaving/being terminated. I think that's the easy way out to lump all of the blame for that tragic circumstance on to her. And I don't think she has as much power in the band as people seem to believe.
In the meantime, enjoy some of Stevie's best piano playing:
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  #2  
Old 05-11-2018, 11:30 PM
StevieandChris StevieandChris is offline
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I think the decision was made based on a mixture of business and personal reasons. I believe all 5 contributed to the breakdown. This happened over time. I think it is was clear after Say You Will that Stevie never wanted to record with Lindsey again. I think Lindseyís attitude/behavior also plays a part. I am not convinced by that video shot by fans means he never said he wanted to delay the tour until 2019. He easily could have said that to FM in the weeks preceding that video. His request combined with his comments over the Classic shows and his manager PLUS the ongoing tension with Stevie may have been what cemented his fate. Was it the right decision? I donít think so. She is obviously narcissistic and has an overflated ego (as does Mick, and as does Lindsey). Itís disappointing. I think the four will regret the decision. But the decision was made. I think the idea anyone is above being fired is ridiculous, no matter how popular or important someone is. If they had given Stevie her walking papers for not recording what became BuckVie, that would have been their right.

I am trying not to argue about it with anyone anymore because it is exhausting and people are upset and need to have a target. Right now that target is Stevie and Mick.
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  #3  
Old 05-12-2018, 06:31 AM
bwboy bwboy is online now
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Originally Posted by StevieandChris View Post
I think the decision was made based on a mixture of business and personal reasons. I believe all 5 contributed to the breakdown. This happened over time. I think it is was clear after Say You Will that Stevie never wanted to record with Lindsey again. I think Lindseyís attitude/behavior also plays a part. I am not convinced by that video shot by fans means he never said he wanted to delay the tour until 2019. He easily could have said that to FM in the weeks preceding that video. His request combined with his comments over the Classic shows and his manager PLUS the ongoing tension with Stevie may have been what cemented his fate. Was it the right decision? I donít think so. She is obviously narcissistic and has an overflated ego (as does Mick, and as does Lindsey). Itís disappointing. I think the four will regret the decision. But the decision was made. I think the idea anyone is above being fired is ridiculous, no matter how popular or important someone is. If they had given Stevie her walking papers for not recording what became BuckVie, that would have been their right.

I am trying not to argue about it with anyone anymore because it is exhausting and people are upset and need to have a target. Right now that target is Stevie and Mick.
Wow, I agree with everything you said! I don't understand this Stevie fans vs Lindsey fans fiasco going on here. Actually, I'm kind of confused by it, because how can you be a fan of one and not the other? Just because some people are still fans of FM and plan to see them in concert doesn't mean we're happy Lindsey is gone. The two ideas aren't exclusive. If FM had fired Stevie, I would still buy their albums and probably see them in concert, IF all four band members were performing.

Seeing one poster gloat about poor ticket sales for some of the FM dates on another thread, for example. It doesn't bother me, it's just so childish. And she would be the first one to have a fit if someone posted how some of the Buck/Vie shows sold poorly, which is ironic. Or if someone posted how happy they were Lindsey's solo album and or solo tour might be postponed now. It's so weird, I mean why would anyone be happy about that? Even if you don't like Lindsey, for some bizarre reason, why would you be happy his album or tour was postponed? I mean, why would a non-fan care at all, let alone gloat about it?

So while I'm disappointed they fired Lindsey, I believe they had their reasons because they're giving up a guaranteed payday. Whether this new lineup will record together, I don't know and don't care, I'm just taking it a day at a time and looking forward to seeing how this version of Fleetwood Mac does.
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  #4  
Old 05-12-2018, 08:51 AM
StevieandChris StevieandChris is offline
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Originally Posted by bwboy View Post
Wow, I agree with everything you said! I don't understand this Stevie fans vs Lindsey fans fiasco going on here. Actually, I'm kind of confused by it, because how can you be a fan of one and not the other? Just because some people are still fans of FM and plan to see them in concert doesn't mean we're happy Lindsey is gone. The two ideas aren't exclusive. If FM had fired Stevie, I would still buy their albums and probably see them in concert, IF all four band members were performing.

Seeing one poster gloat about poor ticket sales for some of the FM dates on another thread, for example. It doesn't bother me, it's just so childish. And she would be the first one to have a fit if someone posted how some of the Buck/Vie shows sold poorly, which is ironic. Or if someone posted how happy they were Lindsey's solo album and or solo tour might be postponed now. It's so weird, I mean why would anyone be happy about that? Even if you don't like Lindsey, for some bizarre reason, why would you be happy his album or tour was postponed? I mean, why would a non-fan care at all, let alone gloat about it?

So while I'm disappointed they fired Lindsey, I believe they had their reasons because they're giving up a guaranteed payday. Whether this new lineup will record together, I don't know and don't care, I'm just taking it a day at a time and looking forward to seeing how this version of Fleetwood Mac does.
Yes, agree with all of your post too! We will just have to wait and see what happens! This is just another dramatic chapter in the bandís history!
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Old 05-12-2018, 01:16 PM
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  #5  
Old 05-13-2018, 10:55 PM
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secondhandchain secondhandchain is offline
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I think what you don't realize is, MOST of us used to be fans of BOTH. I know I was, but she has squandered that. You can never believe anything that comes out of her mouth anymore. She can't keep her stories straight and has changed not for the better the last couple of years. Not trying to be a d#ck about it, it's just the way it is for a lot of us. Older age is not agreeing with her. That being said I'll always love a lot of her music, it's not about that, it's about her behavior specifically the last couple of years.
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  #6  
Old 05-14-2018, 03:24 AM
iamnotafraid iamnotafraid is offline
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Originally Posted by secondhandchain View Post
I think what you don't realize is, MOST of us used to be fans of BOTH. I know I was, but she has squandered that. You can never believe anything that comes out of her mouth anymore.

She can't keep her stories straight and has changed not for the better the last couple of years. Not trying to be a d#ck about it, it's just the way it is for a lot of us.

Older age is not agreeing with her. That being said I'll always love a lot of her music, it's not about that, it's about her behavior specifically the last couple of years.
Most of us? What exact number are you basing that on?

Last couple of years? No real numbers?

You can be a duck if you want to be.

A lot of us? How many of us?

Glad I didn't comment on her age.

A lot? Like how many?

Couple of years? Anyway you could come up with a number?

_________________________________________

I became a Stevie Fan in 1983 (specific number). And
I'm not happy with her right now (5/14/2018). But I'm
still going to listen to her music whenever I want.

#istandwithlindsey
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  #7  
Old 05-14-2018, 02:49 PM
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SisterNightroad SisterNightroad is offline
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Originally Posted by iamnotafraid View Post
Most of us? What exact number are you basing that on?

Last couple of years? No real numbers?

You can be a duck if you want to be.

A lot of us? How many of us?

Glad I didn't comment on her age.

A lot? Like how many?

Couple of years? Anyway you could come up with a number?

_________________________________________

I became a Stevie Fan in 1983 (specific number). And
I'm not happy with her right now (5/14/2018). But I'm
still going to listen to her music whenever I want.

#istandwithlindsey
Could that which we call a rose cease to have its scent if we called it by another name?
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  #8  
Old 05-14-2018, 04:02 PM
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gldstwmn gldstwmn is offline
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Originally Posted by secret love View Post
Hi everybody! (I'm Dr Nick...)
So this is a very contentious issue I'm going to open up here.
Stevie Nicks as scapegoat!
It appears that almost everything that is wrong with Fleetwood Mac is in some way, Stephanie Lynn Nicks' fault. Do you agree? Or partially agree, or disagree?
I've said before that I think it is in part due to misogyny that Stevie is being blamed for everything. But I was told not to discuss it so I don't even know if it's okay for me to say that in this thread.
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  #9  
Old 05-14-2018, 04:05 PM
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gldstwmn gldstwmn is offline
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Originally Posted by StevieandChris View Post
I think the decision was made based on a mixture of business and personal reasons. I believe all 5 contributed to the breakdown. This happened over time. I think it is was clear after Say You Will that Stevie never wanted to record with Lindsey again. I think Lindseyís attitude/behavior also plays a part. I am not convinced by that video shot by fans means he never said he wanted to delay the tour until 2019. He easily could have said that to FM in the weeks preceding that video. His request combined with his comments over the Classic shows and his manager PLUS the ongoing tension with Stevie may have been what cemented his fate. Was it the right decision? I donít think so. She is obviously narcissistic and has an overflated ego (as does Mick, and as does Lindsey). Itís disappointing. I think the four will regret the decision. But the decision was made. I think the idea anyone is above being fired is ridiculous, no matter how popular or important someone is. If they had given Stevie her walking papers for not recording what became BuckVie, that would have been their right.

I am trying not to argue about it with anyone anymore because it is exhausting and people are upset and need to have a target. Right now that target is Stevie and Mick.
I agree that the video and the statements from those close to the band were proof positive of nothing.
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  #10  
Old 05-14-2018, 04:08 PM
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gldstwmn gldstwmn is offline
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Could that which we call a rose cease to have its scent if we called it by another name?
A rose by any other name is still a rose. If it walks like a duck...
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  #11  
Old 05-14-2018, 11:43 PM
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I think she does get a lot of blame over the years for a lot of reasons, but that's not to excuse the diva she is either.

The only shady thing I think happened was Christine mentioned she was, "Already in London" by the time this decision was made. I think she honestly wants nothing much to do with it, it's not her drama so to speak.

Mick loves to make everything about him anyway so I never believe much that comes out of his mouth.

Overall, they are all part of the equation. They have been fighting like this for years, it really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone anymore that this has been building up since their 1997 reunion and Pandora's Box has finally opened up with this band.

I was upset by it all at first, but now I'm just like ....oh well. We have 40+ years of music to dwell on so let it be what it is at this point.

One thing we can say for sure, Fleetwood Mac has never been a dull story of a band.
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Old 05-15-2018, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by secondhandchain View Post
I think what you don't realize is, MOST of us used to be fans of BOTH. I know I was, but she has squandered that. You can never believe anything that comes out of her mouth anymore. She can't keep her stories straight and has changed not for the better the last couple of years. Not trying to be a d#ck about it, it's just the way it is for a lot of us. Older age is not agreeing with her. That being said I'll always love a lot of her music, it's not about that, it's about her behavior specifically the last couple of years.
Yes! This, I totally agree with this. She changed from a rock 'n roll hippie into a rock 'n roll diva. As for the music, I like some of the "newer" stuff but I usually play the old stuff (from BN to RAL).
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  #13  
Old 05-15-2018, 08:29 AM
Murrow Murrow is offline
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I've expressed some of this in other threads but this seems more appropriate for the purpose.

Yes I do blame her for a lot.

2005 or so: I'm not doing another Mac album as the only female.

2014: Can we delay Mac activity even though Chris is back cos I've booked studio time.

One tour later

2016: I don't want to do a Mac album period.

My considered opinion is that Mick should have said "We're not waiting" to her in 2016 (better still 2014) the same way he claims he's done with Lindsey.

More than anything I blame Mick. He's just got too much of a soft spot for Stevie to put his foot down with her about anything these days. Did he seriously think having BOTH those two back in the band was going to work for any great length of time. All it produced was 20 years of jack s*** apart from Say You Will and that poxy excuse for an EP.
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by gldstwmn View Post
I've said before that I think it is in part due to misogyny that Stevie is being blamed for everything. But I was told not to discuss it so I don't even know if it's okay for me to say that in this thread.
Yes, it definitely is, and itís a big part of the reason I donít post here much anymore. I also saw where Christine was called a skank because of Lindseyís departure as well. But itís more often aimed at Stevie.

And the fact that you were told not to discuss it is appalling.
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Old 05-15-2018, 01:29 PM
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Yes, it definitely is, and itís a big part of the reason I donít post here much anymore. I also saw where Christine was called a skank because of Lindseyís departure as well. But itís more often aimed at Stevie.
When they started to turn on Christine I realized that we'd started to cross the Rubicon.
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