The Ledge

Go Back   The Ledge > Main Forums > Rumours
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Make the Ads Go Away! Click here.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-10-2018, 02:05 PM
DownOnRodeo's Avatar
DownOnRodeo DownOnRodeo is online now
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 3,172
Default Lindsey discusses his firing (Rolling Stone)

This October 10 Rolling Stone article featuring Lindsey has already been posted by BigAl84 in the "LB speaks at meet and greet" thread in the Rumours forum and by kak125 in the "New Lindsey article in Rolling Stone" thread in the LB forum.

But I thought it warranted its own thread in this forum, because it's buried in the middle of the thread in the Rumours forum, and because the thread in the LB forum can focus on the new solo album etc.

============================

Lindsey Buckingham: Life After Fleetwood Mac

Lindsey Buckingham and his wife, Kristen, were at home in Los Angeles on January 28th, watching the Grammy Awards ceremony on television, when the phone rang. Fleetwood Mac’s manager Irving Azoff was calling with a message for Buckingham from Stevie Nicks. The gist of it, Buckingham says, quoting Azoff: “Stevie never wants to be on a stage with you again.”

Two nights earlier, the most popular and enduring lineup of Fleetwood Mac — Nicks, Buckingham, singer-keyboard player Christine McVie, bassist John McVie and drummer Mick Fleetwood — performed in New York at a MusiCares benefit show honoring the group. “We rehearsed for two days, and everything was great,” Buckingham claims. “We were getting along great.”

But on the phone, Azoff had a list of things that, as Buckingham puts it, “Stevie took issue with” that evening, including the guitarist’s outburst just before the band’s set over the intro music — the studio recording of Nicks’ “Rhiannon” — and the way he “smirked” during Nicks’ thank-you speech. Buckingham concedes the first point. “It wasn’t about it being ‘Rhiannon,’ ” he says. “It just undermined the impact of our entrance. That’s me being very specific about the right and wrong way to do something.”

As for smirking, “The irony is that we have this standing joke that Stevie, when she talks, goes on a long time,” Buckingham says. “I may or may not have smirked. But I look over and Christine and Mick are doing the waltz behind her as a joke.”

At the end of that call, Buckingham assumed Nicks was quitting Fleetwood Mac. He wrote an e-mail to Fleetwood assuring the drummer that the group could continue. There was no reply. A couple of days later, Buckingham says, “I called Irving and said, ‘This feels funny. Is Stevie leaving the band, or am I getting kicked out?’ ” Azoff told the guitarist he was “getting ousted” and that Nicks gave the rest of the band “an ultimatum: Either you go or she’s gonna go.”

Asked if those were Azoff’s exact words, Buckingham responds, “Pretty much. I don’t remember his exact words, but that was the message.” In April, Fleetwood Mac announced a major North American tour with two new guitarists: Neil Finn, formerly of Crowded House, and Mike Campbell, from Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.

Azoff and the other members of Fleetwood Mac declined to comment for this story on Buckingham’s account of his dismissal. But in April, Fleetwood — who co-founded the group in 1967 with original guitarist Peter Green — told Rolling Stone that the band hit an “impasse” with Buckingham. “This was not a happy situation for us in terms of the logistics of a functioning band.” The drummer did not elaborate but said, “We made a decision that we could not go on with him.”


Buckingham’s romantic and musical partner when the two joined the Mac in 1975 — cited a disagreement over tour plans, saying Buckingham wanted too much time off for solo work. But, she added, “Our relationship has always been volatile. We were never married, but we might as well have been. Some couples get divorced after 40 years. They break their kids’ hearts and destroy everyone around them because it’s just hard.”

Buckingham confirms that, at a band meeting in late 2017 — shortly after a series of shows with McVie to promote their project, Lindsey Buckingham/Christine McVie — he asked for “three or four months extra” to do solo dates. There was “stonewalling,” he claims. “I left the meeting because there was nothing else to talk about.”

But he insists that Fleetwood Mac always “came first. And I don’t think there was ever anything that was just cause to be fired. We have all done things that were not constructive. All of us have worn on each other’s psyches at times. That’s the history of the group.”

It is a warm late-summer morning, and Buckingham, who turned 69 on October 3rd, is sitting on the patio behind his house in a hilly neighborhood in West Los Angeles, giving his version — on the record for the first time — of his exit from Fleetwood Mac. Later in the day, he will rehearse with his own band for a fall tour to promote Solo Anthology: The Best of Lindsey Buckingham, a compilation drawn from records he has made outside the Mac since the early Eighties. The guitarist had completed a new solo album, tentatively called Blue Light, when he was cut loose. It will come out next year.


“Am I heartbroken about not doing another tour with Fleetwood Mac? No,” Buckingham says, “because I can see that there are many other areas to look into.” But, he goes on, “The one thing that does bother me and breaks my heart is we spent 43 years always finding a way to rise above our personal differences and our difficulties to pursue and articulate a higher truth. That is our legacy. That is what the songs are about. This is not the way you end something like this.”

Buckingham says he tried to contact Nicks, without success. On February 28th, a month after first writing to Fleetwood, Buckingham sent the drummer another e-mail expressing those sentiments and his frustration with the band’s “radio silence.” There was no response. Since their last show together, at MusiCares, Buckingham has not spoken to any of his former bandmates.

On September 5th, Fleetwood Mac’s new lineup made its television debut on Ellen. Buckingham did not watch it. His wife did. “I was just sad,” Kristen says. “I was thinking, ‘How did they get here?’ ” Kristen and Lindsey met in 1996, not long before the guitarist — who quit Fleetwood Mac in 1987 — rejoined, leading to the 1997 live reunion album, The Dance. “Even though we didn’t see them very often,” Kristen says of the other members, “it was still a family of sorts.” The Buckinghams’ three children “called them aunts and uncles.”

It is still a small world. But it has become awkward. The husband of Lindsey’s niece is a drum technician on Fleetwood Mac’s road crew. Buckingham’s advice to him: “Mick is still a great guy. Don’t be anything other than a centered, grounded person for him. Do your job well.” Also, John McVie and the Buckinghams are neighbors. The bassist’s home is “literally 300 yards from here,” the guitarist says, pointing through his house to the other side of the street.

Kristen recently ran into John’s wife, Julie, at a local nail salon. “My heart sank a bit,” Kristen says. “She said hello. I asked about her daughter — it was neutral ground.” But when Julie mentioned the tour, “She must have seen my face: ‘Oh, how is Lindsey doing?’ I didn’t want to sugarcoat it. I just said, ‘You know, not great.’ ”


“I had a visceral reaction to it for a long time,” Buckingham says, “completely hurt. I’d be fine for a while, and then it would come back.” He was also “disappointed” in what he calls “the disproportion in what happened and anything you can put on me in terms of behavior and the scale of what went on.”

Buckingham is not the first member of Fleetwood Mac to be fired. Guitarist Danny Kirwan was canned by Fleetwood in 1972 for alcoholism and violent behavior. (Kirwan died in June.) In 1973, singer Bob Weston got his pink slip after he had an affair with Fleetwood’s then-wife. Buckingham, in turn, has a long-standing reputation as a hard case, uncompromising and quick to ignite. He took over Fleetwood Mac’s musical direction after the megaplatinum sales of the group’s 1977 album, Rumours, pushing for the New Wave risk of 1979’s Tusk. After that record’s muted success, the guitarist made his first solo album, 1981’s Law and Order, because, he says, “I was pissed off” at what he saw as the band’s creative retreat. “Was I biting the hand that fed me? Oh, yeah.”

Kristen acknowledges that Lindsey was “definitely edgier when I met him,” adding that marriage and fatherhood “softened” that. Still, she admits, “He’s always been a prickly guy. That’s the truth.”

Practicing for his solo tour at a studio in Burbank, Buckingham is relaxed and chatty as he runs down the opening numbers in a 23-song set list with two members of his band, keyboard player Brett Tuggle and bassist Federico Pol. (Drummer Jimmy Paxson will arrive in a few days.) Buckingham is also focused on the details in the music, singing with his eyes shut tight in concentration and looking intently at his guitar as he picks the Bach-like introduction of “Don’t Look Down,” from 1992’s Out of the Cradle.

Buckingham is literally a solo artist in that he records mostly at home, singing and playing virtually all of the parts, and he is an obvious perfectionist in rehearsal as he stops songs to resolve the timing of a part or the volume in his monitors. It is easy to see how, in a historically dysfunctional setting like Fleetwood Mac, that kind of intensity could spill over into dissension and stalemate.


Ironically, when Buckingham starts his solo tour in early October, in Portland, Oregon, it is within days of the new Fleetwood Mac’s opening night, in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The latter are playing arenas into next spring. Buckingham is appearing in theaters such as New York’s Town Hall. “That’s the story of my solo work: You lose nine-tenths of the listeners,” Buckingham concedes. The set list he rehearses in Burbank includes songs that he could be playing with Fleetwood Mac right now: “Big Love,” “Tusk,” “Go Your Own Way.” But the encores are from solo albums. One, from 2008’s Gift of Screws, is called “Treason.”

“It is not my place or intent to open that door,” Buckingham says of his former band. “I’ve done my best to reach out to them.” He has not “technically closed the book on anything. Nor would I. But I am not planning that anything will change from what it is now.”

Buckingham knows there will be moments on his solo tour, backstage, when well-meaning fans will hand him a copy of Rumours to sign. And “that’s OK,” he says. “Somebody handing me Rumours has no effect on anything more than it ever would have. It is just an affirmation that we’ve done our job right.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...firing-733460/
__________________
Joe
Reply With Quote
.
  #2  
Old 10-10-2018, 02:09 PM
DownOnRodeo's Avatar
DownOnRodeo DownOnRodeo is online now
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 3,172
Default

Just transposing some of the comments on this from the "LB speaks at meet and greet" thread.

===================

Homer McVie
Pretty much what we've speculated all along. Thanks for posting that!

Neal
And there we have it.
At least 50% of the truth, from one of the horses mouths.

jbrownsjr
Hmmmm and yet the folks with close friends or employees of the band don't know what they are talking about. They just want to blame that poor excu$e for a human being.
Thank you LB!!! For not trying to PR around it. Blunt. And, oh what do you know??? They were already rehearsing for the tour. So, this whole lie that FM spread was just that. A lie.

wilsonmac
Buckingham’s advice to the husband of his niece who is on the Mac tour as a drum tech:
“Mick is still a great guy. Don’t be anything other than a centered, grounded person for him. Do your job well.”
Top class Mr. Buckingham. Proud to be a fan of yours

dreamsunwind
Wow. Reading that hurt my heart a little
Just to hear it directly that she did do that. And over absolutely nothing worth it either. So sad.

Neal
It's actually pretty sad/pitiable that Stevie has obviously been carrying around so much animosity and anger for all of these years.
But I still can't get over the way it was handled. My sympathy is minimal...

Storms123
I love Stevie, but She droned on like a loon at Musicare.. Mick and Christine, who were OPENLY mocking her are still there. And just actually proves the "head space" comments that many here have alluded too.
Lindsey's daughter posted a video of Stevie on her IG from that night and called her "My Queen".
He's encouraging Steve Rincon (drum tech married to Cory Buckingham) how to engage and say "Mick's a good guy" Cooler heads prevail, and in this case, Lindsey proves to be the grown up. I mean---they email each other, over something as important as this.
Spoiled brats...all of them.

jbrownsjr
It goes back to BuckVie. I feel it in my bones. $he's a jealous angry fool. If I'm not doing the album, you're not doing the tour. Don't pi$$ off $tevie. Not even Lindsey can get away with it.
__________________
Joe
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-10-2018, 02:18 PM
sodascouts's Avatar
sodascouts sodascouts is offline
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Memphis area
Posts: 4,409
Default

It's even worse than what I speculated, because I at least thought there was a real fight.... not "he smirked at me."

I am beyond disgusted with Stevie.

I am never seeing Fleetwood Mac again.
__________________
- Nancy

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-10-2018, 02:36 PM
DownOnRodeo's Avatar
DownOnRodeo DownOnRodeo is online now
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 3,172
Default

Quote:
Am I heartbroken about not doing another tour with Fleetwood Mac? No, because I can see that there are many other areas to look into. The one thing that does bother me and breaks my heart is we spent 43 years always finding a way to rise above our personal differences and our difficulties to pursue and articulate a higher truth. That is our legacy. That is what the songs are about. This is not the way you end something like this.
As wilsonmac says, never been prouder to be a predominately Lindsey fan.
__________________
Joe
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-10-2018, 02:38 PM
Buster Buster is offline
Senior Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 190
Default

I’m no Stevie apologist and I hate what has gone down. I’m also unclear why there is an immediate assumption that what Lindsey said is the whole story.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-10-2018, 02:39 PM
dreamsunwind dreamsunwind is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,275
Default

It's hard for me to wrap my head around ANYONE being that petty, much less a 70 year old woman.

I appreciate Lindsey's honesty here and the fact that he managed to remain classy about the rest of them in spite of what's happened. And I appreciate that he seems to be the only one with a genuine concern about the legacy of the band and the fans.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-10-2018, 06:23 PM
lovethemac1's Avatar
lovethemac1 lovethemac1 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: center of Canada
Posts: 617
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster View Post
I’m no Stevie apologist and I hate what has gone down. I’m also unclear why there is an immediate assumption that what Lindsey said is the whole story.
I think because the rest of the band (Stevie) have been caught in too many lies and haven't come out with anything else.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-10-2018, 02:59 PM
Feather Blade Feather Blade is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 439
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post
It's even worse than what I speculated, because I at least thought there was a real fight.... not "he smirked at me."

I am beyond disgusted with Stevie.

I am never seeing Fleetwood Mac again.
I am curious about the exact nature of the "outburst" over the music intro. Sadly there were no details about that.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-10-2018, 03:14 PM
bombaysaffires bombaysaffires is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West Coast
Posts: 4,654
Default

well, her PR team is not shy about protecting their girl no matter the cost. So my bet is we haven't heard the last of this; Stevie's team is working out their response...... but given how long and coldly she waited to take her shot to oust him, her inevitable hit back at him may not come right away, but when she figures he's most vulnerable. Guarantee it. Maybe at her RRHOF induction speech. She'll put enough distance between his comments and hers to have plausible deniability that the two are related. (And her apologists will blindly believe her). But She will not let this stand as the last word.
__________________

Last edited by bombaysaffires : 10-10-2018 at 03:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-10-2018, 03:20 PM
Alison Alison is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 350
Default

I think there is more to the story than what Lindsey is saying. Always two sides to everything, it takes two to break a relationship. I'm not defending anyone here. But lots of details seem to be missing.
I can only think things between Stevie and Lindsey have never been that good. They both know how to push buttons. Lindsey comes across as an overbearing perfectionist that has to be right. Stevie who lives in a bubble is at times oversensitive and reactive.
They seem to feed off of each other at times. I bet Lindsey can be at least emotionally abusive, knows what will stir her up.
So after many years of this, I think Stevie had enough, whatever happened at music cares may have been the tipping point of years and years of tension.
Maybe in her old age, she simply didn't want to deal with all the negative emotions and fighting anymore. I can understand how she may have come to this conclusion.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-10-2018, 03:24 PM
BigAl84's Avatar
BigAl84 BigAl84 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Upstate NY near Buffalo
Posts: 639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison View Post
I think there is more to the story than what Lindsey is saying. Always two sides to everything, it takes two to break a relationship. I'm not defending anyone here. But lots of details seem to be missing.
I can only think things between Stevie and Lindsey have never been that good. They both know how to push buttons. Lindsey comes across as an overbearing perfectionist that has to be right. Stevie who lives in a bubble is at times oversensitive and reactive.
They seem to feed off of each other at times. I bet Lindsey can be at least emotionally abusive, knows what will stir her up.
So after many years of this, I think Stevie had enough, whatever happened at music cares may have been the tipping point of years and years of tension.
Maybe in her old age, she simply didn't want to deal with all the negative emotions and fighting anymore. I can understand how she may have come to this conclusion.
Still....not the way you handle that situation as an adult. A 70 year old adult.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-10-2018, 03:28 PM
bombaysaffires bombaysaffires is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West Coast
Posts: 4,654
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison View Post
I think there is more to the story than what Lindsey is saying. Always two sides to everything, it takes two to break a relationship. I'm not defending anyone here. But lots of details seem to be missing.
I can only think things between Stevie and Lindsey have never been that good. They both know how to push buttons. Lindsey comes across as an overbearing perfectionist that has to be right. Stevie who lives in a bubble is at times oversensitive and reactive.
They seem to feed off of each other at times. I bet Lindsey can be at least emotionally abusive, knows what will stir her up.
So after many years of this, I think Stevie had enough, whatever happened at music cares may have been the tipping point of years and years of tension.
Maybe in her old age, she simply didn't want to deal with all the negative emotions and fighting anymore. I can understand how she may have come to this conclusion.

She herself has said this is true of BOTH of them. She pushes his buttons and vice versa. So the blade could cut both ways on that one.

I bet most members of the band are tired of the ongoing emotional nonsense.

Your assumption is that it was perfectly reasonable for her to demand that the band choose between her or him. Would you feel the same if he was the one who had made the demand, and it resulted in her being booted? Coz she's done just as much. She just masks it better, and has always been far, far, far better at playing the press. Go back and read articles over the years where she was unhappy with something on an album and in order to get her way she would give the band an ultimatum "How's it going to look when I go to Rolling Stone and bad mouth this record?" Even Mick describes her doing this in his first book.

I was always a Stevie fan, and I think she's a turd for doing this. I'd feel the same if he pitched a fit and whined that Stevie talks too long onstage, I don't want to be onstage with her again. Come on.

And the rest of those money grubbers going along with it.

I mean, "Stevie never wants to be on a stage with you again." WTF? Not even "Stevie doesn't want to be in the band together anymore".

Whatever happened to all of HER constant comments in interviews about "One of us will be 80 sitting on a bed alone when the other one dies".

What changed? He got married and had kids, that's a big thing. Once they were never, ever going to rekindle anything, she was done.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-10-2018, 04:20 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 11,643
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison View Post
I think there is more to the story than what Lindsey is saying. Always two sides to everything, it takes two to break a relationship. I'm not defending anyone here. But lots of details seem to be missing.
I can only think things between Stevie and Lindsey have never been that good. They both know how to push buttons. Lindsey comes across as an overbearing perfectionist that has to be right. Stevie who lives in a bubble is at times oversensitive and reactive.
They seem to feed off of each other at times. I bet Lindsey can be at least emotionally abusive, knows what will stir her up.
So after many years of this, I think Stevie had enough, whatever happened at music cares may have been the tipping point of years and years of tension.
Maybe in her old age, she simply didn't want to deal with all the negative emotions and fighting anymore. I can understand how she may have come to this conclusion.
You have to consider, some of us are very close to the crew of the band, (people we know/friends etc).. or even Elle, who talks to LB herself on more than one occasion and more than M&G's.

The story that LB has given is exactly what I had heard back in the early part of the year. A lot of people were not allowed to comment because they could get their sources in a lot of trouble or even fired. (Billy burst that bubble.)

So when $tevie comes out and lies about LB not wanting to tour. (A PR move). One cringes at her lack of any human decency. $he is what Hollywood has become today, Bloated, rich, entitled, crass, and dishonest.
__________________
I would tell Christine Perfect, "You're Christine f***ing McVie, and don't you forget it!"
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-10-2018, 06:15 PM
mitzo's Avatar
mitzo mitzo is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,481
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison View Post
I think there is more to the story than what Lindsey is saying. Always two sides to everything, it takes two to break a relationship. I'm not defending anyone here. But lots of details seem to be missing.
I can only think things between Stevie and Lindsey have never been that good. They both know how to push buttons. Lindsey comes across as an overbearing perfectionist that has to be right. Stevie who lives in a bubble is at times oversensitive and reactive.
They seem to feed off of each other at times. I bet Lindsey can be at least emotionally abusive, knows what will stir her up.
So after many years of this, I think Stevie had enough, whatever happened at music cares may have been the tipping point of years and years of tension.
Maybe in her old age, she simply didn't want to deal with all the negative emotions and fighting anymore. I can understand how she may have come to this conclusion.
I agree fully, and am not at all surprised this happened. The fact that Christine did nothing to intervene in this tells me she empathized with Stevie and not Lindsey.
__________________
Think of me sweet darling, every time you don't come...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-10-2018, 10:27 PM
gldstwmn's Avatar
gldstwmn gldstwmn is offline
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Drowning in the sea of La Mer
Posts: 19,463
Default

[quote=Alison;1239405]I think there is more to the story than what Lindsey is saying. Always two sides to everything, it takes two to break a relationship.

Actually it's three his, hers and the truth. And I agree with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison View Post
I'm not defending anyone here. But lots of details seem to be missing.
I can only think things between Stevie and Lindsey have never been that good. They both know how to push buttons. Lindsey comes across as an overbearing perfectionist that has to be right. Stevie who lives in a bubble is at times oversensitive and reactive.
They seem to feed off of each other at times. I bet Lindsey can be at least emotionally abusive, knows what will stir her up.
So after many years of this, I think Stevie had enough, whatever happened at music cares may have been the tipping point of years and years of tension.
Maybe in her old age, she simply didn't want to deal with all the negative emotions and fighting anymore. I can understand how she may have come to this conclusion.
+1000
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Fleetwood Mac Signed Guitar Buckingham McVie Fleetwood Autographed Custom -Nicks
$2899.0
Fleetwood Mac Signed Guitar Buckingham McVie Fleetwood Autographed Custom -Nicks pictureFleetwood Mac Signed Guitar Buckingham McVie Fleetwood Autographed Strat -Nicks
$899.0
Fleetwood Mac Signed Guitar Buckingham McVie Fleetwood Autographed Strat -Nicks pictureFleetwood Mac Signed Photo Stevie Nicks Mick Fleetwood Christie McVee John McVee
$799.99
Fleetwood Mac Signed Photo Stevie Nicks Mick Fleetwood Christie McVee John McVee pictureFleetwood Mac Signed Guitar Lindsey Buckingham Autographed Strat. (Nicks, McVee)
$499.0
Fleetwood Mac Signed Guitar Lindsey Buckingham Autographed Strat. (Nicks, McVee) pictureSIGNED - Mick Fleetwood "Mac" Drumhead 12" + Pic
$400.0
SIGNED - Mick Fleetwood



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1995-2003 Martin and Lisa Adelson, All Rights Reserved