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  #16  
Old 04-15-2008, 12:55 PM
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By now, Lindsey ought to realize (if he doesn't already) that no matter how big & splashy a Fleetwood Mac tour is, it's not going to mean diddly to sales of his own albums. It's mistaken to believe otherwise, I say, based on the faulty premise that the millions who go see Fleetwood Mac are going to like Lindsey's solo albums. They're not -- they never have. Lindsey's fan base likes his solo work, but nobody else does. The situation isn't equivalent to that of Sting & the Police in the 1980s, when the Police fans bought Sting's first solo work.
I wonder how much of it has to do with the possibility that more mainstream listeners perhaps got over-Mac'd in the late 70s. Other styles of music were becoming more popular at that time, and as much as I love Lindsey's early pop newwave punk spices, the records don't really fit in any category that would reach the average listener.
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  #17  
Old 04-15-2008, 01:57 PM
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I wonder how much of it has to do with the possibility that more mainstream listeners perhaps got over-Mac'd in the late 70s. Other styles of music were becoming more popular at that time, and as much as I love Lindsey's early pop newwave punk spices, the records don't really fit in any category that would reach the average listener.
But I don't think it's because people were over Mac'd, because his songs weren't really FM songs either. At least not the first two albums. Even if you wanted more Mac, you probably wouldn't want those albums.

With Sting and Phil Collins, I really can't tell much of a difference in the sound, whether they're with their band or not. But because of Chris and Stevie, FM doesn't have much in common with LB music (except for the obvious LB link). I think one of Lindsey's problems is that his ideal audience wouldn't be people who like FM. There's probably a group who does want his music, but they aren't at FM concerts. He should have gone and joined a "new wave punk spice" band and then he would have been exposed to more people likely to follow him as a solo artist.

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  #18  
Old 04-15-2008, 02:27 PM
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No. L&O and GI were released within a year or so of two highly popular FM records.
Tusk wasn't a "highly popular FM record". It sold millions, but was deemed a failure at the time. So, even though no one accepted his experimental music as part of FM, Lindsey forged ahead and produced even more weird music for his first solo record which would have a much smaller audience than FM did.

Trouble was certainly designed for commercial success, but the rest of the album -- not so much. And, given Tusk's performance, Lindsey had to know that more of same would doom Law and Order, but he didn't change the recipe.

As for Go Insane, if he wanted to use FM to launch that album, I think he would have stayed with the band through the Tango tour, raked in the money, let everyone see him, as he traveled around the country, keeping his identity in their minds, and then sprung his solo album on them. Instead he left FM, didn't maximize that band exposure, waited a couple of years before releasing a solo album, and then didn't tour on that solo album. However, I understand your argument that he didn't do any of that because he didn't really know how to do it. Thus, proving your point.

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  #19  
Old 04-15-2008, 02:55 PM
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Tusk wasn't a "highly popular FM record". It sold millions, but was deemed a failure at the time.
The album sold millions of double albums. That clearly is a success unless it is compared to Rumours, which an unfair comparison. And, the tour was a huge success. So, clearly, he got the needed exposure.

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As for Go Insane, if he wanted to use FM to launch that album, I think he would have stayed with the band through the Tango tour, raked in the money, let everyone see him, as he traveled around the country, keeping his identity in their minds, and then sprung his solo album on them. Instead he left FM, didn't maximize that band exposure, waited a couple of years before releasing a solo album, and then didn't tour on that solo album.
Go Insane was released in July 1984, a year or so after the very successful Mirage album and tour I think you are thinking of OOTC.
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  #20  
Old 04-15-2008, 03:13 PM
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The album sold millions of double albums. That clearly is a success unless it is compared to Rumours, which an unfair comparison.
I'm not comparing the album to Rumours. I'm borrowing the industry assessment of Tusk as a failure, which has now become a matter of folk lore.

People tell their grandchildren that Tusk's failure is why there was pressure never to do anything like Tusk again, which resulted in Mirage. In retrospect, decades later, most people consider Tusk a success now, but that was not the case when the album debuted. It wasn't thought of as a success, in the band, at Warner Bros. or among the public in general, which is why it didn't make financial sense to release a solo album that would be even less commercially accessible than Tusk was, since Tusk had just bombed. But I don't think Lindsey was thinking about what made financial sense.

Then came the more commercial Mirage, with a tour that was also cut short because Lindsey didn't want to be involved, so that money-making opportunity was curtailed too.

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  #21  
Old 04-15-2008, 03:31 PM
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I'm not comparing the album to Rumours. I'm borrowing the industry assessment of Tusk as a failure, which has now become a matter of folk lore.

People tell their grandchildren that Tusk's failure is why there was pressure never to do anything like Tusk again, which resulted in Mirage. In retrospect, decades later, most people consider Tusk a success now, but that was not the case when the album debuted. It wasn't thought of as a success, in the band, at Warner Bros. or among the public in general, which is why it didn't make financial sense to release a solo album that would be even less commercially accessible than Tusk was, since Tusk had just bombed. But I don't think Lindsey was thinking about what made financial sense.

Then came the more commercial Mirage, with a tour that was also cut short because Lindsey didn't want to be involved, so that money-making opportunity was curtailed too.

Michele
You are missing the point. Exclude the money (though clearly he made millions off of each and Tusk was a financial success by any rational standard despite the lore) -- He simultaneously gained huge exposure on both records and tours. That exposure or momentum if you will helped his solo records released soon thereafter sell. To me, that is a no brainer. So, I am at a loss to see why you do not see that.

But, onto another topic, if L&O was released on 10/81 at roughly the same time as BD (7/81) - why was La Nicks villified for releasing a solo recored and to my knowledge, LB was not? In other words, La Nicks and Mick have said it was a big deal, the band never discussed it, if she failed it could hurt FM, etc. I do not recall any talk like that about LB. Clearly, they worked on solo material at the same time. She was a larger star, but his failure could have hurt the band as well. Maybe because she had done the very successful "Whenever I Call You Friend" in 1978 - could that be a factor?
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  #22  
Old 04-15-2008, 04:00 PM
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But, onto another topic, if L&O was released on 10/81 at roughly the same time as BD (7/81) - why was La Nicks villified for releasing a solo recored and to my knowledge, LB was not? In other words, La Nicks and Mick have said it was a big deal, the band never discussed it, if she failed it could hurt FM, etc. I do not recall any talk like that about LB.
Because he brought out a solorecord for the right reasons. This material would have never seen the light on a Mac/album after Tusk. The major part of Bella Donna was vintage Macstuff. She was the focal point of the band and did it to show that she didn´t need the band...not nice. He brought out a solo/album because he couldn´t bring it to the band...not nice from the band. Who´s missing the point here, dude.
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  #23  
Old 04-15-2008, 04:13 PM
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Because he brought out a solorecord for the right reasons. This material would have never seen the light on a Mac/album after Tusk. The major part of Bella Donna was vintage Macstuff. She was the focal point of the band and did it to show that she didn´t need the band...not nice. He brought out a solo/album because he couldn´t bring it to the band...not nice from the band. Who´s missing the point here, dude.
She got three songs a record and had volumes of stuff, some of which FM rejected like Think About It. Come to think of it, Think About It is the only thing FM recorded on. EO17, SDMHA, The Highwayman, ATGF, and L&L were all to my knowledge BD specific even if some were written in the 70's. Plus, the FM existence was shaky after Tusk. So, her reasons were not the reasons you assert.

But, your only point is you hate her. So be it.
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  #24  
Old 04-15-2008, 04:15 PM
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You are missing the point. Exclude the money (though clearly he made millions off of each and Tusk was a financial success by any rational standard despite the lore)
Tusk was certainly a success by Lindsey's standards, but not by the industry's standards, which is why putting out a solo album that was more experimental than Tusk, meant that it was destined not to sell, but Lindsey didn't seem to care about his solo album sales.

As the New York Times put it: '' Tusk ,'' widely regarded as a commercial failure for having sold a mere two million copies, won Mr. Buckingham critical admiration for his willingness to ditch a hit-making formula in favor of daring sonic experimentation.

Or as the Chicago Tribune describes it: "Tusk," the Buckingham-driven Fleetwood Mac now-classic that was regarded as an adventurous failure when it was released in 1979.

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He simultaneously gained huge exposure on both records and tours. That exposure or momentum if you will helped his solo records released soon thereafter sell. To me, that is a no brainer.
I don't know if it helped his solo records or not, because they didn't sell. I do know that if he was only interested in money, fame and exposure, that he wouldn't have spent so much time outside of FM, not recording and not touring, when the rest of the band wanted him to do so.

Now, the tables have turned. He seems to want FM now and has ever since SYW. As soon as SYW came out, Lindsey started saying that he would never have to make another solo album again, if he could continue to express himself through the band and make new FM records. And he wanted to tour then. Wants to tour now. Even says he'd be up to doing a BN tour. His change and eagerness kind of scare me, because he was not that way about the band in the past.

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Old 04-15-2008, 04:19 PM
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  #25  
Old 04-15-2008, 04:21 PM
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. . . Now, the tables have turned. He seems to want FM now and has ever since SYW. As soon as SYW came out, Lindsey started saying that he would never have to make another solo album again, if he could continue to express himself through the band and make new FM records. And he wanted to tour then. Wants to tour now. Even says he'd be up to doing a BN tour. His change and eagerness kind of scare me, because he was not that way about the band in the past.

Michele
I agree. And, he seems to have accepted the 18 songs only "deal" about SYW. But, he is doing his thing now and he certainly deserves it. I can't wait for the rock album, which I think, if history shows us anything, will get morphed into a FM record. But, they better do it soon
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  #26  
Old 04-15-2008, 04:28 PM
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. . . I don't know if it helped his solo records or not, because they didn't sell. I do know that if he was only interested in money, fame and exposure, that he wouldn't have spent so much time outside of FM, not recording and not touring, when the rest of the band wanted him to do so . . . .
Touble and GI sold respectable numbers and produced hit singles. The success was nowhere near that of the FM though. But, once he started waiting longer to release the records, the sales declined even more. I mean he waited five years to get OOTC out. Then he waited too long after The Dance to get GOS out. Both of those records had hit singles in them and could have sold at least as well as L&O. But, by then, many had forgotten him, which is sad. His star is not as bright to the masses, which is sad because he has so much talent and the music on those two later records was great and very accessible, well at least for him
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  #27  
Old 04-15-2008, 04:37 PM
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If I am not mistaken, the Tusk tour played to huge shows many of which were sold out and they toured for like 18 months all over the world to wild crowds. Sounds like exposure to me In any event, you keep changing the point. My point is the pattern demonstrates the closer he released a record to a FM record, the better it sold.
I haven't changed the point at all. First you were talking about the Tusk album being a huge success and now you're talking about the Tusk tour, giving him lots of exposure, with the tour being a lot different than the album. But now that you've told me you're talking about the looong Tusk tour and not the Tusk album, there's certainly no pattern there, as he cut short the Mirage tour and didn't participate in the Tango tour, so if he used the Tusk tour to help his solo album the first time, he sure didn't do it the next times.

You never identified the point as being that the closer he released a record to an FM album, the better the record sold. That's something you just decided to say. Whether his solo albums would sell more closer to FM releases is hard to say, because he never made a habit of releasing solo albums on the heels of FM releases or tours. Law and Order was the closest he got to doing so and then he never made an album as close to FM (the Tusk tour ending) as Law and Order was again.


But maybe he can remedy that lapse for the first time, this time around and test your theory, by trying to release his solo album in the middle of the Sheryl Crow/FM mania.

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  #28  
Old 04-15-2008, 04:38 PM
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I haven't changed the point at all. First you were talking about the Tusk album being a huge success and now you're talking about the Tusk tour, giving him lots of exposure, with the tour being a lot different than the album. But now that you've told me you're talking about the looong Tusk tour and not the Tusk album, there's certainly no pattern there, as he cut short the Mirage tour and didn't participate in the Tango tour, so if he used the Tusk tour to help his solo album the first time, he sure didn't do it the next times.

You never identified the point as being that the closer he released a record to an FM album, the better the record sold. That's something you just decided to say. Whether his solo albums would sell more closer to FM releases is hard to say, because he never made a habit of releasing solo albums on the heels of FM releases or tours. Law and Order was the closest he got to doing so and then he never made an album as close to FM (the Tusk tour ending) as Law and Order was again.


But maybe he can remedy that lapse for the first time, this time around and test your theory, by trying to release his solo album in the middle of the Sheryl Crow/FM mania.

Michele

Good Lord - The Tusk record sold well by any rationale standard as did the tour. That gave him exposure. If you can't see that, then I think any further posts are useless because you will never see it. And, I have consistently in this and other threads talked about the records and tours together as one big period of time. So, don't try to say I did not
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  #29  
Old 04-15-2008, 04:44 PM
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Goof Lord - The Tusk record sold well by any rationale standard as did the tour. Finis
If it had sold well by industry standards, he wouldn't have been told he couldn't do Tusk again by his record company and band mates. Of course, if he had not felt that creative restriction from FM and Warner Bros., Law and Order probably would have ended up sounding a lot differently, but as it is, I think he used it to act out and to make the kind of music that he felt was forbidden.

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Old 04-15-2008, 04:51 PM
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If it had sold well by industry standards, he wouldn't have been told he couldn't do Tusk again by his record company and band mates. Of course, if he had not felt that creative restriction from FM and Warner Bros., Law and Order probably would have ended up sounding a lot differently, but as it is, I think he used it to act out and to make the kind of music that he felt was forbidden.

Michele
So four million double records world wide is a flop. Are you actually arguing that? Put it this way Mirage and The Dance sold around that figure and they are considered successful single records.

He likely was told not to do it again because they wanted another 15 + million record a la Rumours. That they did not get that does not negate the fact that Tusk sold well by a rational standard and the resulting tour ( ) sold very well and played to hundreds of thousands of people.

As to the second point, I often wonder about L&O sounding differently. He did not have much time, esp. for him, after Tusk to get it ready, which makes me think he recorded much of it during Tusk (record and tour) and likely before. So, who knows the effect the comparative failure of Tusk (the record) had on him and L&O.
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