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  #151  
Old 12-18-2020, 09:55 AM
anusha anusha is offline
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I don't think there is a way to parse out whose contribution means the most in FM, to be honest. You have Mick/John, an amazing rhythm section and the founders, Chris, the writer of some of the most enduring, radio friendly hits, Stevie, an amazing stylist, writer and a genuine star, and Lindsey, an amazing performer, producer and musical architect.

They've toured without Lindsey or Chris in the past, and it's been fine but not great. But somehow a band that always used to tout how much their message was about unity and the ways they've gone through so much together, in the end, they were always chasing the moneymaking machine that was The Eagles (whom I respect more for being honest about what their goals are).

I mean, it was a no brainer for Mick and the McVies financially and even in terms of what kinds of shows they wanted to play -- arenas and not theaters. Stevie knew that, and they knew that. What is disappointing to me is not Mick and John -- they always have been willing to pick up new players and move on -- but Chris. I mean she made a duo album and did a whole tour with Lindsey, and then to just roll over and let this happen? She might have had the power to say, I'm not doing this. Man, that's just cold to me. And, I'm sure that behind the scenes, she's emails Lindsey and says, I had to go along with them if I wanted to actually play big shows and make money. And he probably accepts that. But that's the part that I think is especially gross.

While I think Stevie/Mick bear the most responsibility for the firing, the McVies are responsible for their own choices. Everyone gets to make their choices, but they don't get to control how other people see those choices. Mick/Stevie/McVies tried to have both when firing Lindsey, and that's just not happening.
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  #152  
Old 12-18-2020, 11:15 AM
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HomerMcvie HomerMcvie is offline
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Originally Posted by sue View Post
I have plenty of orifice, but can’t find one orefice.

I myself am somewhat of a spelling Nazi. Or is that NazE?
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  #153  
Old 12-18-2020, 11:18 AM
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HomerMcvie HomerMcvie is offline
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Originally Posted by anusha View Post

I mean, it was a no brainer for Mick and the McVies financially and even in terms of what kinds of shows they wanted to play -- arenas and not theaters. Stevie knew that, and they knew that. What is disappointing to me is not Mick and John -- they always have been willing to pick up new players and move on -- but Chris. I mean she made a duo album and did a whole tour with Lindsey, and then to just roll over and let this happen? She might have had the power to say, I'm not doing this. Man, that's just cold to me. And, I'm sure that behind the scenes, she's emails Lindsey and says, I had to go along with them if I wanted to actually play big shows and make money. And he probably accepts that. But that's the part that I think is especially gross.

While I think Stevie/Mick bear the most responsibility for the firing, the McVies are responsible for their own choices. Everyone gets to make their choices, but they don't get to control how other people see those choices. Mick/Stevie/McVies tried to have both when firing Lindsey, and that's just not happening.
Yep, THIS.

This is what I've been saying since day one. Chris had the power to stop this, and she rolled over like a dog. "You can't fire him. You fire him, and I'm GONE".
That would have stopped it. Guaranteed.
Prove me wrong.
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  #154  
Old 12-18-2020, 02:07 PM
sue sue is offline
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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post

I myself am somewhat of a spelling Nazi. Or is that NazE?
All I can say is...
Don’t be stupid be a Smartie...

And switch your spell checker thing on.
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  #155  
Old 12-18-2020, 02:42 PM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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Originally Posted by sue View Post
I have plenty of orifice, but can’t find one orefice.

I often don’t quite understand all that Stevemacd goes on about.
But I don’t hear any anger in his quote
"But, sure, everything that ever happened with a Fleetwood Mac setlist ever was all Lindsey."
This is a red herring and the inclusion of "But, sure" presents his frustration with persons who credit Lindsey with being the tour musical director and set sequencer. Sure, Stevie says to Lindsey "I want to do Beautiful Child or Seven Wonders" but she's not putting together the running order or the song's live arrangement.
There is photographic proof of him at the 2014 tour announcement board in RS looking at the songs pinned against the board: Chain, YMLF, Dreams
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  #156  
Old 12-18-2020, 05:57 PM
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SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post
Do you know what's good for your legacy as a HUMAN BEING? Being LOYAL to people you've worked with for 43 years.
Like leaving the band less than eight weeks before a tour?

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Having a spine, and standing up for what's right.
Or, Lindsey could have just waited to do his solo stuff.

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WHY TF does John need with a bigger paycheck????? He's survived cancer, and lort only knows how many years he has left.
Wants to make sure his daughter is set for life? And, how is his finances anyone’s business?

I mean, it’s laughable that you’d think John would take that kind of financial hit for Lindsey. They’re a corporate rock band, not some buddy-buddy gang.

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And the Peter Green years have NOTHING to do with where they were in 1974.
Without Peter Green, they wouldn’t have been on Warner-Reprise. The Bob Welch band wouldn’t have gotten signed to the label. However, they did well enough not to get dropped.

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They were going NOWHERE. A minor hit, and milking it by earning minimal money. Big f*cking deal.
They had sold at least two million albums by the time Stevie and Lindsey joined. To put that in context, Wilco has only sold about three million albums in 25 years. They had viable careers, they just weren’t megastars. They were certainly bigger than most of today’s legacy indie rock bands that have been around for decades.

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They all had a debt....an eternal debt to Lindsey, and they welched(no pun intended) on a debt owed.
Please, he owes them, too. Without the labors of John McVie during the Bluesbreakers, without Peter Green forming the band, without the songs that were big enough to land them on Warner-Reprise, and without all of the sweat equity from the constant touring and recording from 1967-74, there wouldn’t have been a viable band for Stevie and Lindsey to join in the first place.

Furthermore, Lindsey didn’t have the musical vocabulary on his own to make the albums they made. He couldn’t make legendary albums without the core trio. Christine had been writing hook and harmony laden pop gems before 1975 that were on par with anything she did after 1975. Lindsey and Stevie improved upon the harmonies, but the songs weren’t radically different. However, comparing the live Buckingham Nicks “Rhiannon” to the live fall, 1975 Fleetwood Mac “Rhiannon” is a bit more stark. One sounded like any random bar band, the other was a rock legend. And, I hear the blues in the Mac version (weirdly, I hear “No Road Is The Right Road” on the Fleetwood Mac version).

So, from my perspective, Lindsey owes them a debt of gratitude. He was going nowhere when they basically rescued Buckingham Nicks.
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  #157  
Old 12-18-2020, 06:03 PM
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HomerMcvie HomerMcvie is offline
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An absolute ray of sunshine. I'd expect nothing less...
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  #158  
Old 12-18-2020, 10:12 PM
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elle elle is offline
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Originally Posted by anusha View Post
While I think Stevie/Mick bear the most responsibility for the firing, the McVies are responsible for their own choices. Everyone gets to make their choices, but they don't get to control how other people see those choices. Mick/Stevie/McVies tried to have both when firing Lindsey, and that's just not happening.
oh, definitely agree there. McVies could have walked and waited to see what happens. maybe managers would have to reconsider and go back to Lindsey, and maybe they would throw McVies over the fence too. considering some of the other old bands / corporations managed by the same managers, they would have probably toured with just Stevie and one more member and called it Fleetwood Mac, and charge even more to have money to push the damage under the rug and try to make up bad excuses for all 3 - McVies and Lindsey, the same as they were tripping all over themselves trying to make up excuses for what they did to Lindsey.

my only problem with your narrative is that you keep saying that "the band" or Mick Stevie and McVies fired Lindsey. that's not true. McVies didn't fire Lindsey. remember first vote they took, while Christine was on the plane to London and Lindsey on the plane to LA, with just Mick, Stevie and John, was Stevie and Mick for firing, John McVie against. John went back to LA and then Mick had to "work to convince" John for 3 days that he should do what Mick and Stevie wanted him to. so then John agreed.

then Christine was told and apparently disappeared off the face of the earth for several days and refused to have anything to do with them - or something like that. and then they dragged her back.

so no, McVies didn't fire Lindsey, they didn't want him out of the band. they had no problems with him whatsoever, probably just the opposite. they just went along after a lot of convincing, and probably threatening with contract breaches (which was bs because they actually breached the contract by firing Lindsey, and that's why they ended up paying him like he toured with them).
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  #159  
Old 12-19-2020, 02:08 AM
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oh, definitely agree there. McVies could have walked and waited to see what happens. maybe managers would have to reconsider and go back to Lindsey, and maybe they would throw McVies over the fence too. considering some of the other old bands / corporations managed by the same managers, they would have probably toured with just Stevie and one more member and called it Fleetwood Mac, and charge even more to have money to push the damage under the rug and try to make up bad excuses for all 3 - McVies and Lindsey, the same as they were tripping all over themselves trying to make up excuses for what they did to Lindsey.

my only problem with your narrative is that you keep saying that "the band" or Mick Stevie and McVies fired Lindsey. that's not true. McVies didn't fire Lindsey. remember first vote they took, while Christine was on the plane to London and Lindsey on the plane to LA, with just Mick, Stevie and John, was Stevie and Mick for firing, John McVie against. John went back to LA and then Mick had to "work to convince" John for 3 days that he should do what Mick and Stevie wanted him to. so then John agreed.

then Christine was told and apparently disappeared off the face of the earth for several days and refused to have anything to do with them - or something like that. and then they dragged her back.

so no, McVies didn't fire Lindsey, they didn't want him out of the band. they had no problems with him whatsoever, probably just the opposite. they just went along after a lot of convincing, and probably threatening with contract breaches (which was bs because they actually breached the contract by firing Lindsey, and that's why they ended up paying him like he toured with them).
So Mick is as big a douchebag as $tevie. That's no surprise.

Even if the McVie's didn't want him to be fired, they ALLOWED IT, regardless of Mick's pushing them to accept it. The McVie's STILL SUCK for allowing it. IF THEY'D STOOD UP TO THE OLD BITCHY GOAT, it wouldn't have happened. Lindsey is the only one I still respect, and if he goes back to this sh*t show.....
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  #160  
Old 12-19-2020, 09:56 AM
anusha anusha is offline
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I agree that Stevie and Mick are the most culpable. But I don’t think that makes the McVies totally innocent here. They all ultimately made a choice to go along with the firing. Maybe Mick convinced them because he needed an FM tour financially. Maybe they all wanted the money and the big crowds. I don’t blame them as much as I blame Stevie/Mick, but they’re all culpable on some level. Going along with bad people when you have a choice not to — and they all do. None of these people need more money or need to work. They’re not starving.

I wasn’t aware of the details of the timeline. Where did that all come out? It’s a fascinating study of how they operate.
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  #161  
Old 12-19-2020, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by anusha View Post
I agree that Stevie and Mick are the most culpable. But I don’t think that makes the McVies totally innocent here. They all ultimately made a choice to go along with the firing. Maybe Mick convinced them because he needed an FM tour financially. Maybe they all wanted the money and the big crowds. I don’t blame them as much as I blame Stevie/Mick, but they’re all culpable on some level. Going along with bad people when you have a choice not to — and they all do. None of these people need more money or need to work. They’re not starving.

I wasn’t aware of the details of the timeline. Where did that all come out? It’s a fascinating study of how they operate.
oh completely agree with what you are saying here. they are definitely culpable, even though they were against it but went along.

there were many things leaking out at the time. we've been hearing from insiders about this happening since the beginning of February 2018. it finally came out in April, probably before the band / managers really wanted but there was too many leaks by then so they had to stop the flood even with a half-baked story they had.
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  #162  
Old 12-19-2020, 01:12 PM
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oh completely agree with what you are saying here. they are definitely culpable, even though they were against it but went along.

there were many things leaking out at the time. we've been hearing from insiders about this happening since the beginning of February 2018. it finally came out in April, probably before the band / managers really wanted but there was too many leaks by then so they had to stop the flood even with a half-baked story they had.
Especially from Billy Burnette.
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  #163  
Old 12-19-2020, 02:13 PM
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HomerMcvie HomerMcvie is offline
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Especially from Billy Burnette.
Billy had a pretty big meltdown rant on Facebook. I'd kill if I'd thought to screenshot it before he deleted it.
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  #164  
Old 12-19-2020, 06:16 PM
Jezzup Jezzup is offline
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So how long before Mick's next book comes out with all the details about Lindsey's firing? Assuming what has been revealed is accurate, Stevie would not be happy to have that confirmed by Mick. Does he need to wait until their touring days are over to keep the peace with Stevie?
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  #165  
Old 12-21-2020, 04:03 PM
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Billy had a pretty big meltdown rant on Facebook. I'd kill if I'd thought to screenshot it before he deleted it.
It was something along the lines of

“Lindsey Buckingham is out of Fleetwood Mac and I’m not in. I’m pissed, but I’ll get over it.”
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