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  #181  
Old 01-13-2021, 05:45 PM
anusha anusha is offline
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I think itís not Lindseyís poorly advised comments alone that did it. I was at Classic East and it was striking to me that The Eagles were so well received and made tons of money with replacements, including Vince Gill. The idea that even bands with iconic lineups like the Eagles could continue successfully at a high level of income/sales (not doing oldies triple bill shows like Journey etc), had to be a big motivator. I donít think it was a smirk alone. The fact is, the desire to get rid of Lindsey was probably there since 1980. It became possible once Christine came back. And Stevie was surely angry after Buckingham McVie. But the belief that it would work on a business level may have come after The Classic. Iím sure Azoff wasnít telling them to keep Lindsey after that.
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  #182  
Old 01-16-2021, 03:52 AM
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The fact is, the desire to get rid of Lindsey was probably there since 1980. It became possible once Christine came back.
They had that, though, from 1987-91.

I think Lindsey had been going out of his way to accommodate Stevie since 2009, and just quit once Christine was back in the picture, and things got much worse.

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And Stevie was surely angry after Buckingham McVie.
If LBCM actually factored into it, which I donít believe it did, it wasnít because of Stevie. She was too busy with her own tour. No, it would have been because of Christine. The LBCM tour was the first time in 33 years that she was playing smaller venues that were only 3/4 capacity, if that. A far cry from what she was used to.

Read what sheís said about Christine Perfect, Christine McVie, BTM, Time, and ITM. Why would LBCM be any different? Sure, she had fun doing LBCM and wasnít in favor of his ouster, but something on the scale of LBCM wasnít how she wanted to go out. Given the choice of playing the United Center or an amphitheater at a Six Flags, of course sheís going to pick United Center. Why shouldnít she want to be an arena rocker, especially as part of a band whose musical journey sheís been a part of since April, 1968, ten months after the band was formed and four months before she married John and before Danny joined?

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But the belief that it would work on a business level may have come after The Classic. Iím sure Azoff wasnít telling them to keep Lindsey after that.
Agreed.
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  #183  
Old 01-16-2021, 10:33 AM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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She was too busy with her own tour.
Stevie did have January to September of 2016 off so she could have done FM recording then. She doesn't want to record any more music with FM because she feels it won't be a chart-topper. I think if AC/DC can top the charts, FM can.
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Sure, she had fun doing LBCM and wasnít in favor of his ouster, but something on the scale of LBCM wasnít how she wanted to go out.
As far as the "to go out", that's in response to the ultimatum that Stevie gave Mick, right? If Stevie left, then the band would've been playing the Beacon rather than The Garden.

If the Rumours 5 did the 2018 tour, I believe the venues would've been the same as they were.
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  #184  
Old 01-17-2021, 04:10 PM
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Stevie did have January to September of 2016 off so she could have done FM recording then. She doesn't want to record any more music with FM because she feels it won't be a chart-topper. I think if AC/DC can top the charts, FM can.
As far as the "to go out", that's in response to the ultimatum that Stevie gave Mick, right? If Stevie left, then the band would've been playing the Beacon rather than The Garden.
except, this is completely nonsensical and unproven speculation.

no-name-recognition BuckVie or LB played and filled the Beacon. if huge FM brand played Beacon they would charge an arm and a leg. yeah i saw performers of FM caliber and brand - like Prince - play theaters like Beacon, but that was when they announced the show only 2 days before, charged tons for tickets, and had to add the second show the same night because of huge sales.

Stevie and Mick were cavorting all over fellow performers' shows in 2017, so their being "too busy" rings very hollow. neither of them were too busy to notice how Nicks name on her own (well with The Pretenders but they were pretending that was not the case ) can perform in arenas and sheds while BuckVie had no name recognition so they could only perform in sheds and theaters.

that was behind the timing of Stevie's stunt. she was busy in 2017, yes. busy getting Mick and Azoff to side with her.

as to why? as many have said, the last straw was when Lindsey stopped appeasing her bs once Christine was back. in the past, Mick was usually on Lindsey's side with respect to new music, directing the shows etc. ask anyone who was at Mick's M&Gs between 2013-2015. with Christine back, it appears Lindsey miscalculated and thought he would now have both Mick and Christine on his side. big mistake, Stevie pulled big money managers!
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  #185  
Old 01-17-2021, 05:16 PM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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except, this is completely nonsensical and unproven speculation.
It's very likely that FM no Stevie would play the Garden. Maybe they wouldn't charge $225-$275 like they have the stones to with her in the band but it's very likely they could fill the Garden for a night.

Also, I don't think every artist's mentality is that "I always have to play sports arenas." Chrissie Hynde hates arenas.

Petty, Ben, and Campbell did theater tours in the HBs and Mudcrutch. Dylan does them. Tony Bennett. Lionel.

Stevie played BuckVie venues with Chris Isaak in 2007.
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  #186  
Old 01-17-2021, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams View Post
It's very likely that FM no Stevie would play the Garden. Maybe they wouldn't charge $225-$275 like they have the stones to with her in the band but it's very likely they could fill the Garden for a night.
yep! they would definitely play arenas. and yes maybe not 3 nights in a row in some places.

i've seen tons of social media posts from people at FM shows in 2018 who clearly had no clue who is in the band but knew they were seeing FM and knew the songs.
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  #187  
Old 01-17-2021, 09:19 PM
bombaysaffires bombaysaffires is offline
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Originally Posted by elle View Post
except, this is completely nonsensical and unproven speculation.

no-name-recognition BuckVie or LB played and filled the Beacon. if huge FM brand played Beacon they would charge an arm and a leg. yeah i saw performers of FM caliber and brand - like Prince - play theaters like Beacon, but that was when they announced the show only 2 days before, charged tons for tickets, and had to add the second show the same night because of huge sales.

Stevie and Mick were cavorting all over fellow performers' shows in 2017, so their being "too busy" rings very hollow. neither of them were too busy to notice how Nicks name on her own (well with The Pretenders but they were pretending that was not the case ) can perform in arenas and sheds while BuckVie had no name recognition so they could only perform in sheds and theaters.

that was behind the timing of Stevie's stunt. she was busy in 2017, yes. busy getting Mick and Azoff to side with her.

as to why? as many have said, the last straw was when Lindsey stopped appeasing her bs once Christine was back. in the past, Mick was usually on Lindsey's side with respect to new music, directing the shows etc. ask anyone who was at Mick's M&Gs between 2013-2015. with Christine back, it appears Lindsey miscalculated and thought he would now have both Mick and Christine on his side. big mistake, Stevie pulled big money managers!
This has a real ring of truth
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  #188  
Old 01-17-2021, 10:14 PM
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This has a real ring of truth
Mick will/would ALWAYS pick money over anything. #hesascumbag
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  #189  
Old 01-18-2021, 02:28 AM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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This has a real ring of truth
Yeah. I miscalculated myself. Even putting Mick aside I thought that Chris and Lindsey versus one Stevie would be enough.
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  #190  
Old 01-18-2021, 05:43 PM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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i've seen tons of social media posts from people at FM shows in 2018 who clearly had no clue who is in the band but knew they were seeing FM and knew the songs.
When I went with my professor and her friend to Unleashed in 2009, she and her friend asked me "Is Stevie Nicks still in Fleetwood Mac?" while we were sitting in our arena seats. Her friend also said "I only know Fleetwood Mac's best hits"

Also, the lady next to me at Classic who came from Dallas asked me "Is Stevie Nicks in Fleetwood Mac?"

Fly from Texas to Queens, NY to take that risk!
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  #191  
Old 01-20-2021, 07:20 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is online now
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Originally Posted by elle View Post

as to why? as many have said, the last straw was when Lindsey stopped appeasing her bs once Christine was back. in the past, Mick was usually on Lindsey's side with respect to new music, directing the shows etc. ask anyone who was at Mick's M&Gs between 2013-2015. with Christine back, it appears Lindsey miscalculated and thought he would now have both Mick and Christine on his side. big mistake, Stevie pulled big money managers!
This is pretty much what happened. BuckVie album/tour caused a lot of problems because it was Lindsey doing his own thing. And that fueled the power struggle. Fueled it to the point of bringing in management. And guess who has the fattest voice in mgmt?

Everything I've heard points to that. You have to understand Christine came back after 15 years. She can't really throw her weight around after being accepted back. It was great to see the fan reaction when she came back. Even more-so when she sang her first notes each show in 2014/2015. That was enough for her.
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  #192  
Old 01-20-2021, 07:43 PM
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This is pretty much what happened. BuckVie album/tour caused a lot of problems because it was Lindsey doing his own thing. And that fueled the power struggle. Fueled it to the point of bringing in management. And guess who has the fattest voice in mgmt?

Everything I've heard points to that. You have to understand Christine came back after 15 years. She can't really throw her weight around after being accepted back. It was great to see the fan reaction when she came back. Even more-so when she sang her first notes each show in 2014/2015. That was enough for her.
Plus, Stevie had all the power for years as she refused to record with FM and they didn't force the issue but when Buck/McVie happened she figured out that they could possibly move on without her and she certainly wasn't having that. Even if she didn't really care about the FM tour (besides the money) she wouldn't have lost the power struggle with Lindsey and just leave the band, so the karaoke machine hit the road.
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  #193  
Old 01-21-2021, 01:48 AM
anusha anusha is offline
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I figured the BuckVie project didnít sit well with Stevie. But she doesnít want to record with FM and went out and did 24k Gold when FM were begging her to record with them. She is totally within her rights to refuse but then why would she be angry re BuckVie? Itís not supplanting sales for FM or her solo work really. Or at least not much more impact than LB solo work.

I do think FM command a much higher income on tour than SN solo and itís just a lot more hype, sold our venues etc. I am curious as to whether Stevie nets a lot more when she has to split FM tour $$$$ than she gets for solo tours. I have to think FM commands enough of a higher income and bigger audiences for SN to continue with it enough to push LB out. If it were close, she could just dump touring with FM and move on like she has basically done re recording music since Say You Will.

My sense is that Christine likely didnít have the political capital to push hard against Stevie. Though I do wonder if Chris said she wouldnít tour without LB, whether it would have mattered. That said, it seems like she was not in a place emotionally/temperamentally to push against the snowballing momentum of SN/MF/manager to push LB out. On one hand, it stinks that she was part of the ouster after such a good experience with BuckVie. OTOH, I am sure dealing with 45+ years of LB/SN drama/vitriol must be exhausting for the McVies (I get MF loves the drama), and I get them saying, whatever, we just want to do shows.
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  #194  
Old 01-22-2021, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by anusha View Post
I figured the BuckVie project didnít sit well with Stevie. But she doesnít want to record with FM and went out and did 24k Gold when FM were begging her to record with them. She is totally within her rights to refuse but then why would she be angry re BuckVie? Itís not supplanting sales for FM or her solo work really. Or at least not much more impact than LB solo work.

I do think FM command a much higher income on tour than SN solo and itís just a lot more hype, sold our venues etc. I am curious as to whether Stevie nets a lot more when she has to split FM tour $$$$ than she gets for solo tours. I have to think FM commands enough of a higher income and bigger audiences for SN to continue with it enough to push LB out. If it were close, she could just dump touring with FM and move on like she has basically done re recording music since Say You Will.

My sense is that Christine likely didnít have the political capital to push hard against Stevie. Though I do wonder if Chris said she wouldnít tour without LB, whether it would have mattered. That said, it seems like she was not in a place emotionally/temperamentally to push against the snowballing momentum of SN/MF/manager to push LB out. On one hand, it stinks that she was part of the ouster after such a good experience with BuckVie. OTOH, I am sure dealing with 45+ years of LB/SN drama/vitriol must be exhausting for the McVies (I get MF loves the drama), and I get them saying, whatever, we just want to do shows.
How do you know it was 'such a good experience with BuckVie'? She might have gotten miffed by Buck's control issues and was happy to be rid of him
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  #195  
Old 01-22-2021, 06:00 AM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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How do you know it was 'such a good experience with BuckVie'? She might have gotten miffed by Buck's control issues and was happy to be rid of him
After he was fired, she said she had a great time working with him in 2017.

What are the control issues? Are you talking about him being a musical director and a producer?
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