Still think Stevie is going to do the FM album?

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Once again, Fleetwood Mac are followers of trends, not leaders.

Huh? Tusk was my favorite by those five since Christmas 1987, months after they became my favorite.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Once again, Fleetwood Mac are followers of trends, not leaders.

I think they were referencing that those sales numbers would have blown the band's mind several years before-- to be selling 4 million copies.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by teedeerocks

You got that right.FM were just here in 2013.They have no new music to promote,so why else would they be touring?And they should be ashamed of themselves if putting the bimbos up front was their idea b/c it shows nothing but disrespect to the REAL fans who paid out the ass to see a show consisting of the same selist as last year except for Chris's songs.I still can't figure out why I love them so damn much.They're a bunch of crazy,mixed up,dysfunctional,and last but not least,ungrateful people.The same goes for their management.But at the same time,we can't NOT go to one of their shows when they're in town.Anyone interested in group therapy?

Count me in for group therapy!

When it became known that Christine had rejoined, and they were working on new songs, I reasonably assumed they would spend about six months or so to make and release an album, then do a tour. Perhaps Stevie would be more amiable to the album if she was given a window of time to promote her own album. Also, it would allow to assimilate into a lifestyle that she had not lived for a very long time.

Instead, in a very crass financially-motivated move, they booked a massive, two year world-wide tour, not very long after their last cash-grab tour. I wonder who championed this idea; Perhaps their management? Maybe Mick?

Great shows, but fleeting moments compared to the lasting impact of a final album of new music. I have faith that the album will happen. But if doesn't, I think that's the last hurrah for the band. The only thing fans may have to look forward to is a CD/DVD package of the tour, which would be welcome, but nothing other than the same old same old. Perhaps yet another Rumours release! Yawn.

[Macfanforever]

Tusk was a great album.I remember reading somewhere that Mick was alittle shaky on making a 2 record set.I thought it sold good.

Mac is not going to run out of gas yet but they might sputter with alittle air in their line and backfire once in a while .LOL .I'm not counting them out yet on throwing in the towel and retire.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by bethelblues

For Stevie, it's all about the production. I feel that hasn't gelled 100% in a long time.

With Lindsey at the helm, their five signature albums from 1975- 1987 gelled. Say You Will is the only other album he made with Fleetwood Mac, sixteen years later. Being that is was the first band album without Christine, it was essentially a Buckingham Nicks album with Mick and John being their rhythm section.

His production style had changed, so the album only has glimmers of the established Rumours-era sound. It's a different animal, but not an unprecedented contrast in the history of the band. Consider that drastic change of style between Then Play On & Kiln House, or Heroes Are Hard to Find & Fleetwood Mac.

Some theorize that Stevie was unhappy with how he produced her Say You Will songs. I think it has less to do with that, more to do with her contentious relationship with him. Stevie was in a gloomy mood then, dealing with the death of her mother. Lindsey's production style isn't stuck in Say You Will mode. The production on his duet with Stevie on Twisted gelled as song with a classic Fleetwood Mac feel. Stevie owes a lot to Lindsey for her success. And she should pull the stick out of her ass and inconvenience her precious self to take part in the final chapter of Fleetwood Mac. This is not the time to play the diva card. Grow up.

[Tusky]

I wonder if they'll wait until 2017 to release the album and cash in the Rumours anniversary?

[BlueDenimLamp]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

With Lindsey at the helm, their five signature albums from 1975- 1987 gelled. Say You Will is the only other album he made with Fleetwood Mac, sixteen years later. Being that is was the first band album without Christine, it was essentially a Buckingham Nicks album with Mick and John being their rhythm section.

His production style had changed, so the album only has glimmers of the established Rumours-era sound. It's a different animal, but not an unprecedented contrast in the history of the band. Consider that drastic change of style between Then Play On & Kiln House, or Heroes Are Hard to Find & Fleetwood Mac.

Some theorize that Stevie was unhappy with how he produced her Say You Will songs. I think it has less to do with that, more to do with her contentious relationship with him. Stevie was in a gloomy mood then, dealing with the death of her mother. Lindsey's production style isn't stuck in Say You Will mode. The production on his duet with Stevie on Twisted gelled as song with a classic Fleetwood Mac feel. Stevie owes a lot to Lindsey for her success. And she should pull the stick out of her ass and inconvenience her precious self to take part in the final chapter of Fleetwood Mac. This is not the time to play the diva card. Grow up.

So Stevie was unhappy during SYW because her mother died??? Her father passed in 2005 and her mother passed in 2011 so I guess that theory is ( cue the "Starshine" music) WRONG!
I think bethelblues is saying that the direction LB wants the songs to go in versus the direction Stevie wants her songs to go in has not "gelled" in a long time and this may be close to the root of the problem. It may also be more than the LB production of her songs that she is unhappy with she may just not like the influence LB will have as a musician playing on her songs any more. Maybe she's tired of the LB sound and his domination of her songs. If Lindsey would just simplify things and rock out once in a while like he used to.( An excerpt from the 17 Reasons This 'Rhiannon' Clip Is the Coolest Thing in the Universe thread "And Lindsey playing the Les Paul sounds so much more rocking than his Turner") Is LB capable of just playing the part and making Stevie happy or does his ego get in the way? Why does LB always have to be in charge? They're Stevie's songs why can't she have them turn out the way she want's with out a WWIII protest from LB? As you have pointed out "Consider that drastic change of style between Then Play On & Kiln House, or Heroes Are Hard to Find & Fleetwood Mac" so change is nothing new to this band so why not let her shake things up a bit?
And sorry but if Stevie is standing up for her songs from a creative standpoint then she's not a diva.
If Stevie wants nothing to do with LB being involved with her songs and is refusing to work with him in the FM environment period then that is a major problem.
As a business man and co-owner of the Fleetwood Mac corporate empire I don't think there is any chance of Mick parting ways with Stevie and giving up a substantial portion of his future income just to get one last record out.
If the new album becomes a major wall between Stevie and LB and it were to get to the point of one of them saying "Either he/she goes or I go" which one will Mick choose?
Whatever happens it will be fun to watch.

[nicepace]

Mac is not going to run out of gas yet but they might sputter with alittle air in their line and backfire once in a while .LOL .I'm not counting them out yet on throwing in the towel and retire.

Thank you! I am so tired of the ageist nonsense on the board, all these young people on the board assuming that, because the musicians are in their 60s and 70s, they are doddering old people with little or no future potential. Have the Macsters been doddering on this tour? Not exactly!

[RockawayBlind]

Originally Posted by BlueDenimLamp

So Stevie was unhappy during SYW because her mother died??? Her father passed in 2005 and her mother passed in 2011 so I guess that theory is ( cue the "Starshine" music) WRONG!
I think bethelblues is saying that the direction LB wants the songs to go in versus the direction Stevie wants her songs to go in has not "gelled" in a long time and this may be close to the root of the problem. It may also be more than the LB production of her songs that she is unhappy with she may just not like the influence LB will have as a musician playing on her songs any more. Maybe she's tired of the LB sound and his domination of her songs. If Lindsey would just simplify things and rock out once in a while like he used to.

If she doesn't want Lindsey to play on her songs anymore, she can't stay in the band. That's obvious. Or, as you pointed out, he has to go. At this point it seems more likely Stevie would be the one to go. She isn't just alienating Lindsey; it appears it's Stevie against the band at this point.

As for SYW production, it's clear Lindsey took the reins in some songs, but in others it's also very clear he did what she wanted. Examples of the latter would be the atrocious Running through the Garden and Silver Girl, which sound like the worst of 80s production. Even Say You Will, which is a decent song, also seems to have been produced to Stevie's specs. I believe you err in putting all the production blame on Lindsey. He seems to have acquiesced quite a bit. And I think it's as a result of that that the album is inconsistent. Unlike Tusk, where the differences in style actually work in a weird way, in SYW they don't. The album has some flashes of brilliance but it's overall inconsistent and somewhat deflating.

I agree with you, however, that Lindsey should scale back the studio tricks and deliver a more organic sound. I've been clamoring for that on these boards for a while. To me, as much as I hate to admit it, the best production I've heard on Lindsey songs for a number of years was on the This Is 40 tracks: clean, crips sounds free of the burden of studio trickery. I'd love to see more of that.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by RockawayBlind

If she doesn't want Lindsey to play on her songs anymore, she can't stay in the band. That's obvious. Or, as you pointed out, he has to go. At this point it seems more likely Stevie would be the one to go. She isn't just alienating Lindsey; it appears it's Stevie against the band at this point.

As for SYW production, it's clear Lindsey took the reins in some songs, but in others it's also very clear he did what she wanted. Examples of the latter would be the atrocious Running through the Garden and Silver Girl, which sound like the worst of 80s production. Even Say You Will, which is a decent song, also seems to have been produced to Stevie's specs. I believe you err in putting all the production blame on Lindsey. He seems to have acquiesced quite a bit. And I think it's as a result of that that the album is inconsistent. Unlike Tusk, where the differences in style actually work in a weird way, in SYW they don't. The album has some flashes of brilliance but it's overall inconsistent and somewhat deflating.

I agree with you, however, that Lindsey should scale back the studio tricks and deliver a more organic sound. I've been clamoring for that on these boards for a while. To me, as much as I hate to admit it, the best production I've heard on Lindsey songs for a number of years was on the This Is 40 tracks: clean, crips sounds free of the burden of studio trickery. I'd love to see more of that.

You can only do so much with her range and the tone quality of her voice. I listen to IYD and her voice is so nasal, like on Silver Girl. Don't blame the producer.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by BlueDenimLamp

I think bethelblues is saying that the direction LB wants the songs to go in versus the direction Stevie wants her songs to go in has not "gelled" in a long time and this may be close to the root of the problem. It may also be more than the LB production of her songs that she is unhappy with she may just not like the influence LB will have as a musician playing on her songs any more. Maybe she's tired of the LB sound and his domination of her songs. If Lindsey would just simplify things and rock out once in a while like he used to.( An excerpt from the 17 Reasons This 'Rhiannon' Clip Is the Coolest Thing in the Universe thread "And Lindsey playing the Les Paul sounds so much more rocking than his Turner") Is LB capable of just playing the part and making Stevie happy or does his ego get in the way? Why does LB always have to be in charge? They're Stevie's songs why can't she have them turn out the way she want's with out a WWIII protest from LB? As you have pointed out "Consider that drastic change of style between Then Play On & Kiln House, or Heroes Are Hard to Find & Fleetwood Mac" so change is nothing new to this band so why not let her shake things up a bit?
And sorry but if Stevie is standing up for her songs from a creative standpoint then she's not a diva.
If Stevie wants nothing to do with LB being involved with her songs and is refusing to work with him in the FM environment period then that is a major problem.
As a business man and co-owner of the Fleetwood Mac corporate empire I don't think there is any chance of Mick parting ways with Stevie and giving up a substantial portion of his future income just to get one last record out.
If the new album becomes a major wall between Stevie and LB and it were to get to the point of one of them saying "Either he/she goes or I go" which one will Mick choose?
Whatever happens it will be fun to watch.

Here's what I've been saying for a decade now- Christine was the vital bridge between Lindsey's esoteric sonic musings, and Stevie's wandering mystical ramblings. Christine's razor sharp pop sensibilities not only reign in Buckingham & Nicks' musical eccentricities into a more palatable form, but she also bridges the musical gap in between their respective offerings with her own songs. If Stevie is hesitant to record with FM this time around she needs to remember that it was Christine who made FM gel, and that she's back now. Chris not only served as a musical buffer between those two, but also a psychological one as well.

Originally Posted by nicepace

Thank you! I am so tired of the ageist nonsense on the board, all these young people on the board assuming that, because the musicians are in their 60s and 70s, they are doddering old people with little or no future potential. Have the Macsters been doddering on this tour? Not exactly!

I've been saying the same thing for years. There are so many veteran artists who are so much older than our Macsters, and are out on the road tearing it up. Pete Seger was still performing into his 90s. Though it sounds like his health may have finally gotten the better of him, BB King toured until about 90. Wanda Jackson is pushing 80 and still going strong. There are many more examples, but the point is there are many artists who don't let age slow them down.

However, I think if the band dissolves, it won't be due to age. At some point I suspect the tension between Lindsey and Stevie will get to the point where everyone involved throws in the towel. After all, who wants to spend their twilight years being angry or surrounded by hopelessly dysfunctional people? After all, John (for instance) could say screw this drama, after cancer and being surrounded by these two bickering drama queens for 40 years, I'm going to spend my golden years with my wife, daughter, and sailboat.

That brings me around to another point as well, though. I really don't see Stevie ever being the one to pull the plug for that exact reason. She has no significant other, no children, and her parents are gone. Whether she wants to admit it or not, FM & it's larger cast of characters is her family. It's all she has. As much as she loves to carry on about Lindsey in the press, she wouldn't know what to do with herself without the FM extended family. Not to mention she thrives off the drama and excitement.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

That brings me around to another point as well, though. I really don't see Stevie ever being the one to pull the plug for that exact reason. She has no significant other, no children, and her parents are gone. Whether she wants to admit it or not, FM & it's larger cast of characters is her family. It's all she has. As much as she loves to carry on about Lindsey in the press, she wouldn't know what to do with herself without the FM extended family. Not to mention she thrives off the drama and excitement.

I think Stevie would have to be away from FM for awhile though before she realizes this.

I mean, I think Christine did see this, even though she has brothers, nieces and nephews. She left FM to finally be able to spend time with her family when, in reality, FM had become her de facto family. She knew this long ago when she said she was closer to Amy and Lucy than to her own blood relations, but I think she thought she could retire and form the bonds that had been neglected when she was touring so much over the decades and she couldn't. I don't mean with her brother John. She doesn't need to be near him to be tied to him, but I do think she didn't feel as close to the other family members as she thought she would, once she got off the road.

John said that the were like brothers and sisters. I think when they make comments like that, people write them off as if they are trying to sound loving. But I don't think they are. You don't always love your siblings or get along with them, but you can't easily get away.

Lindsey said in the SYW program that he'd shared things with FM that he hadn't shared with anyone except his family -- and sometimes he'd shared more with FM than he had with his family and he didn't say that in a cuddly, warm way necessarily. It's just fact. Good, bad or indifferent. You are saddled with these other guys. Albatross.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by michelej1

John said that the were like brothers and sisters. I think when they make comments like that, people write them off as if they are trying to sound loving. But I don't think they are. You don't always love your siblings or get along with them, but you can't easily get away.

Lindsey said in the SYW program that he'd shared things with FM that he hadn't shared with anyone except his family -- and sometimes he'd shared more with FM than he had with his family and he didn't say that in a cuddly, warm way necessarily. It's just fact. Good, bad or indifferent. You are saddled with these other guys. Albatross.

Exactly. I've said this before, they are like each other's crazy, pain-in-the-a$$ relatives, and often their reaction is like the "oh my god Aunt Tilly's going to be there at Christmas and I'm going to have to put up with her boring stories about her poodle" etc etc etc.

I loved Tom Petty's quote in the RS article on Stevie, where he said they get grumpy with each other when they realize they are joined at the hip and will have to keep working together-- because the truth is we are most interested in them when they are all together rather than solo. Spot on.

I think Lindsey has made his peace with this and accepted it for what it is. He still wants artistic growth for FM but he has accepted that his own personal *real* growth will come in his solo career, and that the compromise required to be in a band will mean he can't hope to reach the same levels of growth and experimentation. And he's worked thru it and come out on the side of being ok with it.

So clearly has Chris, if she ever really had a problem with it at all (which it doesn't seem she has).

Stevie, on the other hand, seems to have moved from a position of swallowing some of the sh*t required to be in a band to totally resenting it and not wanting to have to compromise at all. She got a taste of getting everything her way in her solo career and for whatever reason, justified or not, she seems to have reached a point where the benefit of the compromise (at least in the studio) is less appealing than it used to be.

How they will resolve this is the big mystery. Who will shift position enough to make it all work? Stevie seems to be throwing down the gauntlet to say "It won't be me" with all her "no one has the balls to tell me what to do" blather. How much more can LB bend for her?? How much more does she WANT him to bend? I think he's not above using the media to create impressions and send messages either, and he seems to be going out of his way to put out in the press that he's all for an album and he's open to whatever compromises that might take so that if it doesn't happen, no one can point the finger at him. He has to walk a fine line between distancing himself from her antics and pissing her off more…. until she signs on he can't give her reason to say it was all his fault.

Drama.

[mitzo]

If there is a difference between what Stevie wants and what the band wants, what is it all about? Production? I doubt it. More likely, money and some measure of control. Stevie may be holding out for the lion's share of any royalties, and dibs on what singles might be released.

[TsnFan4Ever]

Stevie has family: her brother Chris, sister-in-law Lori and niece Jessica, plus lots of other family in Phoenix and Colorado. Fleetwood Mac is special and will always have a place in all of their lives but please don't make Stevie sound like she's an abandoned orphan. She's always been surrounded by close friends and goes home to Phoenix whenever possible.

I think it's more likely that she wants to see how she feels at the end of the tour: if she wants to take a break to relax after all of the work the last few years or if she wants to get away from Lindsey (really good chance, especially after having to see him interact with all these girls at the stage; don't think for a moment that she's not noticing. She's just too professional to show it onstage). She also was scheduled to tour with 24K and most likely plans to pursue that before doing anything else with FM after this world-wide tour is over (which they all knew when she got talked into going back on the road with them). When she's ready, she will record with them. If everyone pushes her, she was raised by her mother to stand up for herself and she will fight back. She's 66 and the sudden loss of her mother is probably a wake-up call. Also, she may very well want to take some extended time to go home to Phoenix to spend time with her family because of Chris's illness--especially since both Stevie and Lori have been away from him all this time. So, how about giving her some space and trust that when she's ready, she will contribute to the album?