The Ledge

Go Back   The Ledge > Main Forums > The Early Years
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Make the Ads Go Away! Click here.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 01-08-2009, 09:55 PM
sharksfan2000's Avatar
sharksfan2000 sharksfan2000 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 982
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moz View Post
Peter filling in after Jeremy left: Liable for the remaining shows on the tour they convinced Peter Green to help finish the tour. He brought along his friend, Nigel Watson, who played the congas (twenty-five years later Green and Watson would collaborate again to form the Peter Green Splinter Group).
Is this true?
Yes - that's pretty well documented. You can hear Watson on congas (presumably that's him on congas) during the extended jam of Tell Me All The Things You Do on the bootleg recording of part of the 19 February 1971 San Bernardino show.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 01-09-2009, 08:34 AM
Norton Norton is offline
Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 89
Default List of Mac concerts with dates

As listed on Dinkys world

http://www.dinkysworld.com/fleetwood%20mac%20gigs.htm

Hope this helps...
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 01-09-2009, 08:38 AM
Norton Norton is offline
Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 89
Default PG with Nigel Watson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Watson_(musician)


After Green left Fleetwood Mac in 1970, he worked with Watson on two solo singles, Heavy Heart and Beasts of Burden, the latter being credited to both musicians. Watson also accompanied Green as conga player on a tour of the United States with Fleetwood Mac, after Jeremy Spencer left the band and they asked Green to fill in and help them fulfil their tour obligations. Watson was at that time the brother-in-law of Fleetwood Mac's manager Clifford Davis.

In 1996, Watson and Green started working together again, and Watson was influential in persuading Green to return to music after he had been musically idle for several years. They formed the Peter Green Splinter Group, and released several albums over the following few years until the group split in 2004. Green was not always comfortable taking centre-stage when playing live, and Watson provided an extra focus onstage, singing as well as playing lead guitar. He also composed many songs recorded for the albums.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 01-09-2009, 12:08 PM
dino dino is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 638
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton View Post
As listed on Dinkys world

http://www.dinkysworld.com/fleetwood%20mac%20gigs.htm

Hope this helps...

Thanks for the Dinly link!
Allowed me to clear up a few mysteries.
The list seems slightly incomplete, though.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 01-11-2009, 07:05 AM
snoot snoot is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 263
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moz View Post
I took a peek at my Kiln House LP and, unsurprisingly, it didn't say where it was recorded. Hopefully Mick's book will give some clues.
Where is Jeremy when you need him? Probably off in Norway recording more sweet blues licks with Liland & Co! I'm gonna have to ask a few old friends if I can track them down, as we need to fish this out once and for all.

I found a release date [for Dragonfly" b/w "The Purple Dancer] of March 5, 1971. Does that sound right?

Sounds about right, though these tracks may have been recorded during the previous year.

As for finishing this timeline, I'm facing a bit of a dilemma. I won't write up the stuff after Stevie and Lindsey joined.

Best left for another day, another time indeed.

Should I continue on and add solo albums and other works Pete, Danny, Jeremy, etc. released after 1974?

Well at least through the 70's if nothing else, since all of their early solo projects happened during that time period. After that it may become more "extraneous."

And what about Mick's albums, John's cd, and Christine's albums? I mean, they were in the pre-Rumours Fleetwood Mac.

Again, probably best left with a cut off date at the end of the 70's (imo). Christine Perfect is perfect, but not so sure about Mick's Zoo, as it is more associated with B&N era links and personnel. Others may see this in another way though.

I'm also considering adding albums John Mayall recorded, and personal information, like when the band members were married, but I'm not sure if anyone would be interested in seeing that.

I wouldn't trail off too much on Herr Mayall either, short of noting his Bluesbreakers front as being the genesis and starting point of the Mac foundation. JM is a story all by his lonesome, one as diverse and roller-coastered in its telling as the Mac. That fire he suffered in '79 in Laurel Canyon here in SoCal could be a chapter all of its own! As for FM band members' marriages, I see no reason why not.

Inserts/lyric sheets, memorabilia and merchandise -- all good stuff, but may get a bit extraneous again, especially for a timeline. One need look no further than eBay for more on this of course. However Bob's "Fleetwood Mac" T shirt is signature cool as can be (he does it such modest and indentured justice).

We really need to get him one titled "Fleetwood Mac HOF Leftover"
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 01-11-2009, 07:37 AM
snoot snoot is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 263
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moz View Post
Peter filling in after Jeremy left: Liable for the remaining shows on the tour they convinced Peter Green to help finish the tour. He brought along his friend, Nigel Watson, who played the congas (twenty-five years later Green and Watson would collaborate again to form the Peter Green Splinter Group).
Is this true?
Sharksfan and Norton sum this up quite sufficiently. Peter and Nigel were playing in 'Berdoo the same day Davis flew them in from London. And with less than an hour of practice to get to know the KH set!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dino View Post
Thanks for the Dinly link! Allowed me to clear up a few mysteries. The list seems slightly incomplete, though.
Curious, but in what ways do you notice?

This did catch my attention though:

1969 De Lane Lea recording
April 18 :: May 6 :: May 15 :: May 18 :: May 31 :: June 6:: June 8 :: July 2-4:: Aug 3

Could a chunk of the above be the dates of the TPO sessions?

And of course 1968 Oct 30
"CBS w Mike Vernon & Mike Ross" ... not sure if there was any leftover material carried from here to TPO to boot. Don't think Albatross was recorded this late however -- though it was released late in '68 and charted in early '69. Hmmm...

Finally 1970 De Lane Lea recording
April 14 - 20 :: April 28 - 30 ...

What does the good book Hjort have to say on this sharkman? Possibly the Manalishi farewell?
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 01-11-2009, 12:27 PM
sharksfan2000's Avatar
sharksfan2000 sharksfan2000 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 982
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snoot View Post
This did catch my attention though:

1969 De Lane Lea recording
April 18 :: May 6 :: May 15 :: May 18 :: May 31 :: June 6:: June 8 :: July 2-4:: Aug 3

Could a chunk of the above be the dates of the TPO sessions?

And of course 1968 Oct 30
"CBS w Mike Vernon & Mike Ross" ... not sure if there was any leftover material carried from here to TPO to boot. Don't think Albatross was recorded this late however -- though it was released late in '68 and charted in early '69. Hmmm...

Finally 1970 De Lane Lea recording
April 14 - 20 :: April 28 - 30 ...

What does the good book Hjort have to say on this sharkman? Possibly the Manalishi farewell?
Hjort has something to say about almost everything Just to make clear what the focus of his book is - he's following John Mayall, Eric Clapton, Peter Green, and Mick Taylor in great detail from the beginning of 1965 to the end of 1970. That's why he has almost nothing to say about Fleetwood Mac after Green departed. Hjort has this to say about those particular recording dates:

30 October 1968: The band (minus Kirwan) recorded Spencer's mock radio show "The Milton Schlitz Show" that was supposed to be for an upcoming EP, but went unreleased until The Vaudeville Years discs in 1998. Hjort lists "Albatross" being recorded at CBS Studios on 6 October, and possibly further work being done on it there during the week of 14-18 October.

Those various spring & summer 1969 dates: of those, Hjort lists 18 April, 15 May, 31 May, 8 June, and 2-4 July for recording tracks for Then Play On. He adds mixing TPO at the studio on 12 July, and recording tracks for Spencer's solo LP on 25 July (and also 30 August and either 22 or 23 September). Hjort notes the 3 August date was for recording both parts of "Oh Well". Also, he lists 18 September as the date for recording Green's "Fast Talkin' Woman Blues" (an update of his earlier "Drifting") and Kirwan's "Tell Me From the Start", both of which showed up on The Vaudeville Years.

14-20 April / 28-30 April 1970: Snoot, you're correct about "The Green Manalishi" being recording at this time. Hjort writes that it was recorded on the 14th (28 takes!). "World In Harmony" was recorded on the 16th-17th (a take from the 16th was used for the master), and on the 17th Kirwan also recorded two new instrumentals. More work was done on these two instrumental tracks on the 20th - one of these was later released on The Vaudeville Years as "Farewell" (the predecessor to "Earl Grey" from Kiln House), while it seems the second one has never been released. Hjort does not mention any De Lane Lea recordings later in April, only a BBC session on the 27th, where "Sandy Mary", "World In Harmony", "Only You", "Tiger", and "Leaving Town Blues" were recorded. Hjort does mention Green recording for a solo album with Martin Birch at De Lane Lea in early May, but that these recordings were never finished and never released.

There certainly could have been more recording dates than Hjort lists...and possibly Dawson includes some dates that were postponed or cancelled? I don't know the sources for all the info, but presumably Dawson was using his notes or journals and Hjort was using studio logs...but there are bound to be inaccuracies in all of this.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 01-11-2009, 01:02 PM
Moz's Avatar
Moz Moz is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snoot View Post

Inserts/lyric sheets, memorabilia and merchandise -- all good stuff, but may get a bit extraneous again, especially for a timeline. One need look no further than eBay for more on this of course. However Bob's "Fleetwood Mac" T shirt is signature cool as can be (he does it such modest and indentured justice).
Nah, I wasn't going to add that to the timeline, I was just curious about it!
__________________

"Or maybe she's a witch, who transcends the boundaries of time and space, and traveled back to 1981, for her own reference."
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 01-11-2009, 09:23 PM
snoot snoot is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 263
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharksfan2000 View Post
Hjort has something to say about almost everything
You know I'm getting to like that bible of yours as a go-to reference for the PGFM era. A lot of minutiae not always easy to find elsewhere. I always appreciate that kind of attention to details.

Hjort lists "Albatross" being recorded at CBS Studios on 6 October, and possibly further work being done on it there during the week of 14-18 October.

Ah now we have the precise date. That dating makes sense of course. Important too, as Albatross was the beginning of everything that the Mac would ever be. To me that track, coming when and how it did, created a focal point for everything the Mac was to become, right up until the present. This was the beginning of Green stepping out and away from the blues and embracing a far greater reach, and it was also the beginning of some of their strident blues fans questioning the "integrity" and "purity" of the Mac machine (well before TPO and KH). English Rose and Then Play On simply took this fusion that much further, and laid the groundwork for the rock and pop tendencies that followed (helped mightily by Kirwan's injections during their formative years). Albatross also gave them their first and only #1 chart hit (UK), until Dreams came along some seven years later (USA). [Moz take note]

Great to see the TPO session dates confirmed to boot, and so many from what make up the The Vaudeville Years. Top notch.

Hjort does mention Green recording for a solo album with Martin Birch at De Lane Lea in early May, but that these recordings were never finished and never released.

Peter and Danny were in the midst of putting together an instrumental project, that is often accredited to one or the other - and sometimes both. This was to have been the follow up to the Then Play On production, and had barely gotten off the ground. Whether lyrics were going to be added later to some of this material I do not know, but it was something of a compromise package partly embracing where Peter was wanting to go with more free form, and Danny's desire to keep things a bit more reined in. Those tapes may still exist somewhere, but have yet to see the light of day. They may have disintegrated by now for all we know also, or been misplaced to parts unknown.

There certainly could have been more recording dates than Hjort lists...and possibly Dawson includes some dates that were postponed or cancelled? I don't know the sources for all the info, but presumably Dawson was using his notes or journals and Hjort was using studio logs...but there are bound to be inaccuracies in all of this.

Showing wisdom beyond your years my friend. That always goes without saying in such reconstructions, even when the parties involved strive to be accurate. Always best to have multiple sources though, to help keep the other(s) honest and more in check. As for Dinky, he was right there alongside Vernon, Ross and Birch as a consultant for many of those early projects (English Rose, Then Play On and Kiln House to name three).

Great find by Norton btw.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 01-11-2009, 09:33 PM
snoot snoot is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 263
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moz View Post
Nah, I wasn't going to add that to the timeline, I was just curious about it!
Well if you're referring to creating new threads, some of those ideas may have merit.

Btw here's another take for your CM enlistment collection Moz.

MOJO Magazine
August 2004
As told to James McNair


It began as a marriage of convenience and ended with an earthquake. This month we say “Hi!” and “Bye!” with Christine McVie and Fleetwood Mac *

HELLO
August 1970

I’d married John McVie and just prior to that Peter [Green] had left the band. That devastated them, but Mick [Fleetwood], John, Danny Kirwan and Jeremy Spencer were trying to carry on as a four-piece. After Chicken Shack, I’d had a brief skirmish with a solo career, and then become a housewife. Fleetwood Mac were rehearsing for the album Kiln House and all us wives, kids and pets were living there, too. It was a rambling old oast house; you can see it in the pin sketch I drew for the album cover.

The band decided that they needed to augment their sound. And because I was living with them, I knew the songs. One night at dinner they said, “How about joining the band, Chris? We’re desperate!” There was no audition or anything; it was a case of them liking my voice and my keyboard-playing and knowing what they were getting.

Ten days later we were performing in New Orleans at a club, The Warehouse. I’d never been to the US before and I felt jet-lagged and under-rehearsed. It was nerve-wracking and frenetic, and I was in a band with my idols and I’d married one of them and our marriage was very happy at that stage.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 01-13-2009, 05:06 PM
snoot snoot is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 263
Default From Dinky re KH

Hello Jb

Here is what I remember from spring 1970 Fleetwood Mac with Danny as lead guitarist/songwriter rehearsed "Kiln House" at the house in Alton and then recorded the album at De Lane Lea with Martin Birch. I think they did do some recording at the house with the Stones mobile. I left Fleetwood Mac during this rehearsal to work with the Byrds and they hadn't started recording when I *took off* for Los Angeles.

Here is a link to some shows from My era with Fleetwood Mac. More shows to be posted at some point during the year.
http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/c...catalog/5.html

and here is some articles to check out
http://crawdaddy.wolfgangsvault.com/...fe+Is+the+Road

Have fun with the blog.

All the best,

(|:-{Dinky Dawson
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 01-14-2009, 02:11 AM
dino dino is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 638
Default

There's an interview where Peter states that the legendary Texan guitarist Johnny Winter recorded guitar parts for "Green Manalishi", but they weren't used. This was probably in the states, as they completed the song there? I find this interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 01-14-2009, 08:05 PM
doodyhead's Avatar
doodyhead doodyhead is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lake Worth FL,Pine Bush,NY
Posts: 598
Default in california I think

Quote:
Originally Posted by dino View Post
There's an interview where Peter states that the legendary Texan guitarist Johnny Winter recorded guitar parts for "Green Manalishi", but they weren't used. This was probably in the states, as they completed the song there? I find this interesting.
My memory was that Jeremy Spencer saying that Peter was howling the recorded ending in a parking garage in Los Angeles i think.

I remember somethng about Peter not being able to wrap himselfg around the innitial guitar solo and that is why Johnny Winter was asked. I guess they did not like that either. I would have loved to hear that.
If you listen to the progression of available recordings of GM you get the feeling peter had to really work at it before he went to the extra string bass and Wa WA
I once tried to put together a green Manalishi album. very tedious in the end

doodyhead

an aside:

Snoot: did you e mail oe speak to Dinky Dawson?
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 01-15-2009, 08:00 AM
snoot snoot is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 263
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dino View Post
There's an interview where Peter states that the legendary Texan guitarist Johnny Winter recorded guitar parts for "Green Manalishi", but they weren't used. This was probably in the states, as they completed the song there? I find this interesting.
Never heard of the Winter connection before ~ interesting is right. I'm not sure Manalishi was recorded anywhere but at De Lane Lea Studios, unless this came in the form of mixing and overdubs later on (after perhaps being shuttled off via express courier). Johnny Winter may have also found his way into the Kingsway, London studio during one of his concert tours of England. I know there exists a 1970 recording of him and his band performing from the Royal Albert Hall, which came out a few years ago as part of a Sony reissue package, so who knows.

Also per the sharkman and his ace Hjort bible:

14-20 April / 28-30 April 1970: Snoot, you're correct about "The Green Manalishi" being recording at this time. Hjort writes that it was recorded on the 14th (28 takes!). "World In Harmony" was recorded on the 16th-17th (a take from the 16th was used for the master), and on the 17th Kirwan also recorded two new instrumentals. More work was done on these two instrumental tracks on the 20th - one of these was later released on The Vaudeville Years as "Farewell" (the predecessor to "Earl Grey" from Kiln House), while it seems the second one has never been released. Hjort does not mention any De Lane Lea recordings later in April.

Now if you were to look at various tour schedules for 1970, including Dinky's, none seem to reference Green or Mac as being anywhere near the states in April 1970. The song had already charted by June in the UK, which doesn't allow for much doodling around, so all this makes me wonder. But I will say, I HAVE seen references to The Green Manalishi being recorded in LA before too, like at Planetoftheamps!

Quote:
Originally Posted by doodyhead View Post
My memory was that Jeremy Spencer saying that Peter was howling the recorded ending in a parking garage in Los Angeles i think.
Well I've seen it stated that to attain the massive wall of sound they were looking for, cabs were place in the underground car park beneath the studio at De Lane Lea. Close and distant miking was used on the speakers to get that very original guitar sound. So why does the ghost of LA keep arising?

I once tried to put together a green Manalishi album. very tedious in the end

Please tell us more ! The devil will be in the details I'm sure.

an aside:
Snoot: did you e mail oe speak to Dinky Dawson?


E mail. Dinky rests his hat in Boston these days, having long ago deserted the smog of LA. He's not all that far from you now V. If you need to get ahold of him, PM me - or drop me a line @ my addy.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 01-15-2009, 02:23 PM
slipkid's Avatar
slipkid slipkid is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 545
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snoot View Post
E mail. Dinky rests his hat in Boston these days, having long ago deserted the smog of LA. He's not all that far from you now V. If you need to get ahold of him, PM me - or drop me a line @ my addy.
Those excerpts from his book in Crawdaddy are a riot. A race between gear mobiles?? That's something Top Gear (BBC) would do today, a show I highly recommend. The scary plane ride to Antwerp seems to be the inspiration for a scene from "Almost Famous".
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Fleetwood Mac John McVie Guitar Pick with Cannon on Back picture

Fleetwood Mac John McVie Guitar Pick with Cannon on Back

$69.00



FLEETWOOD MAC FUTURE GAMES FEAT JOHN & CHRISTINE MCVIE 1971 LP RS 6465 picture

FLEETWOOD MAC FUTURE GAMES FEAT JOHN & CHRISTINE MCVIE 1971 LP RS 6465

$12.00



Rare Scene 1981 Benatar John Denver Christie McVie HUGE ADS picture

Rare Scene 1981 Benatar John Denver Christie McVie HUGE ADS

$12.00



Fleetwood Mac John McVie Guitar Pick 006.6 Vintage picture

Fleetwood Mac John McVie Guitar Pick 006.6 Vintage

$69.00



FLEETWOOD MAC 1971 CLASSIC 8x10 BW MATT PROMO GROUP PHOTO CHRISTINE McVIE MICK picture

FLEETWOOD MAC 1971 CLASSIC 8x10 BW MATT PROMO GROUP PHOTO CHRISTINE McVIE MICK

$12.99




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
© 1995-2003 Martin and Lisa Adelson, All Rights Reserved