US Health Care Bill Vote Today

[SandyMac]

Originally Posted by WildHeart69

I agree Sandy- this is not a self-sustainable plan in the least bit. A MAJOR tax increase would be necessary; like 25%... If the major pork were to be cut out of the current plan we could easily have the $$ to focus on the necessary fixes

And I thought Obama said no tax increases for the middle class.
To be honest, nothing has changed with Obama's administration. It is all politics as usual.
The agenda just changed (one sided), both parties do it really. It is so sad politics has come to this. Where is the statesmanship, doing things in honest debate, and representing your constituents?

[vermicious knid]

Embarrassing graph comparing America to other countries. The lines connect the amount spent on health care per person (on the left) with the average life expectancy (on the right).



I think it is disgraceful how the bill was crafted to exclude everything big insurance and big pharma didn't want, but I still can't outright oppose it given that 45,000 people die every year due to lack of health care. link. It could have been a much better bill, but its more than the Republicans ever attempted when they had control.

[SandyMac]

Originally Posted by vermicious knid

Embarrassing graph comparing America to other countries. The lines connect the amount spent on health care per person (on the left) with the average life expectancy (on the right).



I think it is disgraceful how the bill was crafted to exclude everything big insurance and big pharma didn't want, but I still can't outright oppose it given that 45,000 people die every year due to lack of health care. link. It could have been a much better bill, but its more than the Republicans ever attempted when they had control.

This 45,000 people that die every year to lack of heath care.. that number was actually taken from a health poll done in the mid 1980's of people who had no health insurance and they just assume they never got any insurance now in 2010. Plus what about the thousands of people who die every year who actually have health insurance? Just because you have it, does not mean you eventually do not die.

My sister in law had health insurance and she died of cancer last year.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by SandyMac

To be honest, nothing has changed with Obama's administration. It is all politics as usual.
The agenda just changed (one sided), both parties do it really. It is so sad politics has come to this. Where is the statesmanship, doing things in honest debate, and representing your constituents?

Agreed. The best thing I can say for Obama at this point is at least he's a good public speaker, comes across as highly intelligent, and isn't as Us vs Them/scorched Earth when it comes to foreign policy (thus far). All of that is a big improvement over his predecessor. Otherwise, it's truly hard to distinguish him from GWB. Because he's just as bad about ignoring the moderate majority that is America, IMO and he's just as bullish with his very partisan politics. I'm not saying I'd have wanted McCain over Obama at all (the very thought of Palin being VP would be disastrous for our country), but I held higher hopes for at the very least, his style of carrying out his office. We'll see though... presidents tend to really show their true selves once/if they're elected to a second term. Maybe he'll end up surprising everyone for the good after all.

[tilthefirefades]

Originally Posted by SandyMac

This 45,000 people that die every year to lack of heath care.. that number was actually taken from a health poll done in the mid 1980's of people who had no health insurance and they just assume they never got any insurance now in 2010. Plus what about the thousands of people who die every year who actually have health insurance? Just because you have it, does not mean you eventually do not die.

My sister in law had health insurance and she died of cancer last year.

Which is why the people with health insurance are the main reason for reform. I'm ready for the backlash, but how many people watched Michael Moore's documentary Sicko? That definitely opened my eyes quite a bit. People are actually marrying other people in Canada so that they can illegally get free insurance there. Mostly people with cancer that don't get enough coverage. There was one story he shared, of a woman whose child was running a fever of 104 I believe. She takes her child to the nearest hospital, and that hospital claimed that her insurance wouldn't work there. They told her to go to the hospital across the city in order to have her child get treated. Well, her child died on the way to the other hospital. I'm sure there are plenty of other cases just like this one. And whether or not this bill is perfect, it is a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, politics are indeed greatly corrupted, however we have no other choice in the matter but to allow them to do as they please. Protesting may work, but not too many people will do it. I have no idea why, but they won't, especially the minorities.

[SandyMac]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Agreed. The best thing I can say for Obama at this point is at least he's a good public speaker, comes across as highly intelligent, and isn't as Us vs Them/scorched Earth when it comes to foreign policy (thus far). All of that is a big improvement over his predecessor. Otherwise, it's truly hard to distinguish him from GWB. Because he's just as bad about ignoring the moderate majority that is America, IMO and he's just as bullish with his very partisan politics. I'm not saying I'd have wanted McCain over Obama at all (the very thought of Palin being VP would be disastrous for our country), but I held higher hopes for at the very least, his style of carrying out his office. We'll see though... presidents tend to really show their true selves once/if they're elected to a second term. Maybe he'll end up surprising everyone for the good after all.

Good point, I really did have high hopes for Obama, I just know that because he made all these wonderful promises to anyone who threw money at him, he is bound to make someone angry that does not agree with the way he makes his decisions. I mean, look at NOW, the women's org that is now mad at him because he is going to make an executive order making sure no federal money is spent on abortions, which makes the NOW org mad.

I really do feel for Obama, this is what happens when you campaign on such huge promises to a lot of different people and groups. I know all politicians do it, it just seemed so transparent and "in your face" than normal.

I really do believe America is more Center than what all the very left liberals would like to think. or even the really right conservatives. I think center is a good place to be. I was always brought up on listening to what the other side of debate is and to not think of life as black and white or liberal vs conservative. Life is too complicated for that kind of strict thinking. Being too far to one extreme is never a good thing for a country.

I think come November there will be a lot more republicans voted into office to balance this Congress out.

[mylittledemon]

Yes. medicine, seemingly, is supplied based on need and not to turn a ridiculous profit. My wife takes Voltaren (for her lupus). It costs us $3 a month as opposed to $25 a month (that's with insurance) in America!

[WildHeart69]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

I'm not saying I'd have wanted McCain over Obama at all (the very thought of Palin being VP would be disastrous for our country),

Don't get me wrong... I agree... but what has Biden done for us really?

I saw an interview with Ted Nugent who made a GREAT point: when you introduce fear into society, they will listen to whatever you tell them in hopes of a brighter future. And Obama, being the charismatic candidate and great speaker he was and along with his celebrity backing, had all the right words for everyone. Granted, he is a RAGING Republican- but I think he hit the nail right on the head.

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by SandyMac

My sister in law had health insurance and she died of cancer last year.

I'm sorry about the loss of your sister. I'm sure that was devistating.

I bet having health insurance was a comfort for her, knowing she didn't have a high monetary price to keep herself alive, and knowing that her loved ones would not be stuck with the hassle of paying enormous amounts of money after her death.

I'm sorry I had to use your sister as an example.

Here in Massachusetts we have Universal Health Care. I never had health insurance until this was implemented and being able to utilize it has greatly improved my overall health because I can now practice peventive health care without worrying about cost. Cost alone, was enough to keep me from getting some of the help I needed.

[WildHeart69]

Originally Posted by tilthefirefades

Which is why the people with health insurance are the main reason for reform. I'm ready for the backlash, but how many people watched Michael Moore's documentary Sicko? That definitely opened my eyes quite a bit.

I'm sorry, but if you don't think Michael Moore spins things out of control in EVERY movie he has made, then I have news for you.....

[tilthefirefades]

Originally Posted by WildHeart69

I'm sorry, but if you don't think Michael Moore spins things out of control in EVERY movie he has made, then I have news for you.....

Hahaha, well I like him pretty good. Bowling For Columbine made me a fan. However after that, he does have a different agenda, very obvious too.

[WildHeart69]

Bowling For Columbine is a good example of his manipulation..... he made a total ASS out of Charlton Heston- WHO WAS SUFFERING WITH ALZHEIMER'S!!!

[tilthefirefades]

Originally Posted by WildHeart69

Bowling For Columbine is a good example of his manipulation..... he made a total ASS out of Charlton Heston- WHO WAS SUFFERING WITH ALZHEIMER'S!!!

That doesn't what change what he did, I think everyone can agree that having a NRA meeting held days after a tragic shooting is wrong.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by WildHeart69

Don't get me wrong... I agree... but what has Biden done for us really?

I saw an interview with Ted Nugent who made a GREAT point: when you introduce fear into society, they will listen to whatever you tell them in hopes of a brighter future. And Obama, being the charismatic candidate and great speaker he was and along with his celebrity backing, had all the right words for everyone. Granted, he is a RAGING Republican- but I think he hit the nail right on the head.

Fantastic points, both of them. Biden hasn't done much other than stay mostly quiet, and only made himself look like an idiot a couple of times... not something I'm sure you could say right now Palin been in his shoes

I actually agree with that quote from Nugent, too. I've always said the reason why Obama got elected wasn't promises of handouts (something Republicans are entirely convinced of), but instead, they elected him for his tone, and at least promise of the pursuit of hope and happier days. Of working with other Nations, not alienating ourselves from them... of focusing on taking care of our own people and their direct needs, versus being an international police state. And perhaps in those areas, Obama is succeeding.




Just as a disclaimer: I'm obviously a fairly liberal person... but that does not mean I'm a democrat. I've voted for republicans and independents, and disagree with certain liberal mainstay ideas. I'm definitely becoming more centrist with age, too. Oh, and I LOVE to play Devil's Advocate... mainly because I truly enjoy seeing what makes people tick, where their ideals come from, etc.

[WildHeart69]

Originally Posted by tilthefirefades

I think everyone can agree that having a NRA meeting held days after a tragic shooting is wrong.

I don't I mean, the NRA stands for safety and rights.... I think the NRA is trying to PREVENT things like the Columbine shooting.

Gun control is a WHOOOOLE other issue, but as Louie touched on earlier, when you start messing with the founding father's plans, you are on a slippery slope..

I think we should agree to disagree, or we could start a new thread.