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  #76  
Old 04-22-2006, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Vicky
No. You argued that I should have understood your statements to be joking because of your use of emoticons. So I used that particular quote - which is followed by the laughing emoticon - to show why I might interpret your words as being anything but joking. And if your statement truly wasn't a joke, then why follow it with a ?




The word "can" is the present tense form of the word that means "to be able to" and thus refers to now. And if Stevie can't sing now, then she can't sing at all. "Used to be able to" doesn't cut it in my book.



Wrong again. I simply stated that I don't care what you think and you took offense to that and interpreted it as an attack.
Seriously?
I told you I followed it with a laughie because I thought you were joking.
Which I said already.
Nice try on the grammar, but no.
No I didn't. To wit, I said "Wow, you're totally aggressive right now for no apparent reason. I mean, not that I mind or anything, just noticing with amusement."
Again, it's like you didn't read what I said.
Are you the one who said even though you're a writer, you don't read that much? Because your justifications for what you say aren't related to what I wrote. You just got really aggressive for reasons that you made up. And you keep making them up. It's quite amazing at this point. It's like talking to a brick wall. A really rude, illogical brick wall. A brick wall who will never get it. A brick wall who gets mad when people say Stevie can sing. A brick wall who takes offense when someone comments on her sadism.
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Last edited by amber; 04-22-2006 at 01:30 AM..
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  #77  
Old 04-22-2006, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Miss Vicky
Basically it boils down to the fact that neither of us "gets" the other.
I think you are both fighting an endless battle
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  #78  
Old 04-22-2006, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by foxyluva
I think you are both fighting an endless battle
Oh, it's ending now. There's no resolution in sight (and there never will be) so I'm not going to bother with it anymore.

Like I said, we don't get each other. Never have. Never will.
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  #79  
Old 04-22-2006, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Vicky
Okay. I'll give you that. However, I think it's better to over-emote than to strip away all of the emotion in an otherwise very moving song, as Stevie did with TISL's "Planets of the Universe." So I still remain firmly in Bekka's camp.
Personally, I don't think it's ever better to over-emote!

And I think Stevie's vocal is perfect on the TISL version of "Planets Of The Universe." She starts out sounding composed, with just the right hint of resignation... and then builds to the song's climax. I think it's more effective that way than if she came right out of the gate at a full gallop.
But, of course, that's just my opinion.

I have to say that all of this talk of "can sing," "could sing," "used to be able to sing," makes me wonder how fans of other artists feel. Two people I mentioned earlier, Dylan and Marianne Faithful, have markedly different voices than they did earlier in their career. Did any of their fans throw their hands up in the air, and say, "Gawd, he/she can't sing anymore -- I can't listen to this ****!"? Or do they find beauty in their flawed, latter-day vocals?

If Bekka's or Christine's voices ever changed dramatically, for whatever reason, would their fans run the other way? Or would they find an appreciation for their new sound?
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  #80  
Old 04-22-2006, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
Two people I mentioned earlier, Dylan and Marianne Faithful, have markedly different voices than they did earlier in their career. Did any of their fans throw their hands up in the air, and say, "Gawd, he/she can't sing anymore -- I can't listen to this ****!"? Or do they find beauty in their flawed, latter-day vocals?
I'm not a Dylan or Faithful fan, so I don't know. On the other hand, I think most hardcore fans overlook or embrace such changes, I'm just not one of them.

If Bekka's voice, Lindsey's voice, or that of any other of my current favorites deteriorated as much as Stevie's has - to the point where the very sound of it grates on my nerves - I would certainly turn tail and run. On the other hand, there are still some Stevie songs that I do love, as evidenced by my response to the "Create Your Own Best of Stevie CD."

Edit: In the case of Bob Dylan, I don't think he ever had a good voice to begin with, so that example doesn't quite seem to fit to me.
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  #81  
Old 04-22-2006, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Vicky
If Bekka's voice, Lindsey's voice, or that of any other of my current favorites deteriorated as much as Stevie's has - to the point where the very sound of it grates on my nerves - I would certainly turn tail and run.
Fair enough. If we're talking about a singer that I only ever marginally liked to begin with (which I think would be a fair assessment of your overall feelings for Stevie), then I suppose it's possible that I'd lose interest, too. I'm an oddball though, because I usually find my interest increasing as a singer's voice becomes more ragged and worn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Vicky
Edit: In the case of Bob Dylan, I don't think he ever had a good voice to begin with, so that example doesn't quite seem to fit to me.
I'm not familiar with every Dylan song there is to know, but I think his vocals on early songs like "Lay, Lady, Lay" or "Knockin' On Heaven's Door" are beautiful.
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  #82  
Old 04-22-2006, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
If we're talking about a singer that I only ever marginally liked to begin with (which I think would be a fair assessment of your overall feelings for Stevie), then I suppose it's possible that I'd lose interest, too.
Well, yes and no. Obviously I don't much care for her now, but I liked her a lot in the beginning and continued to do so for quite some time. I bought all of her solo albums, as well as quite a few cds worth of demos, and was even a shipper and briefly part of a fanfiction Yahoo group. I even considered dressing up as Stevie for Halloween one year. I'm not sure I would categorize that as marginal.

Last edited by Miss Vicky; 04-22-2006 at 01:56 AM..
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  #83  
Old 04-22-2006, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Vicky
Well, yes and no. Obviously I don't much care for her now, but I liked her a lot in the beginning and continued to do so for quite some time. I bought all of her solo albums, as well as quite a cds worth of demos, and was even a shipper and briefly part of a fanfiction Yahoo group. I even considered dressing up as Stevie for Halloween one year. I'm not sure I would categorize that as marginal.
I didn't realize that -- and I didn't mean to sound like I was questioning your right to be called a fan. It's just been my impression that, even when we're discussing early-Stevie, you seem somewhat dismissive of her talents. Certainly I knew you liked her to some degree, but I figured it was more incidental than anything (ie: moreso through her work with Buckingham or Petty or Egan, than her own material).

Again, there's nothing wrong with it, either way. Stevie has one hell of an unusual voice, and always has. So it doesn't surprise me that some people don't care for it now or then or ever. My favorite era for Stevie's voice (1983-1987) is long-gone, but I also love what her voice has become. It continues to effect and move me in ways that no one else's voice ever has, and it brings me endless joy... so hopefully everyone has a singer (or musician) that does that for them.
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  #84  
Old 04-22-2006, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
I didn't realize that -- and I didn't mean to sound like I was questioning your right to be called a fan.
Don't worry, I didn't think you were questioning it.


Quote:
Certainly I knew you liked her to some degree, but I figured it was more incidental than anything (ie: moreso through her work with Buckingham or Petty or Egan, than her own material).
At the very beginning, my interest in her was incidental to her association with Tom Petty, but then I bought "Bella Donna" (I first heard her around '91 and got "Bella Donna" around '94 or '95) and not long afterward "The Dance" was released, so it quickly went from mild interest to obesession.

As for Lindsey Buckingham and Walter Egan, my initial interest in them was incidental to their association with her. The same can be said for John Stewart, Billy Burnette, and Warren Zevon - all of whose music I now love far more than I ever loved Stevie's.

Quote:
Stevie has one hell of an unusual voice, and always has. So it doesn't surprise me that some people don't care for it now or then or ever... So hopefully everyone has a singer (or musician) that does that for them.
She certainly does have a very unusual voice but I don't think it's a very good voice, at least not anymore. I have nothing against people with unusual voices, which is apparent considering the list favorite musicians mentioned above. And while I respect the fact that there are a lot of people out there that still love her music (and certain other members of the band, for that matter), they should also respect the fact that I don't, and have every right to say so. Don't get me wrong, I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone here or even really talking about anyone specific (or about the incident that just happened), I'm just speaking in general terms, because I've found that even when I am respectful in my posts I often find myself being attacked for my opinions.
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  #85  
Old 04-22-2006, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
Technique is important, true... but I think being an intuitive singer is equally important. Celine Dion has technique in spades, but I'd rather listen to voices such as Dylan's or Marianne Faithful's. Both are ravaged by time (and drugs and alcohol and whatever else), but endlessly more interesting to me than voices such as Celine's or Mariah's or, hell, Anne Murray's.
ENOUGH WITH THE CANADIAN BASHING, STEWBALL!!!
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  #86  
Old 04-22-2006, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
I have to say that all of this talk of "can sing," "could sing," "used to be able to sing," makes me wonder how fans of other artists feel. Two people I mentioned earlier, Dylan and Marianne Faithful, have markedly different voices than they did earlier in their career. Did any of their fans throw their hands up in the air, and say, "Gawd, he/she can't sing anymore -- I can't listen to this ****!"? Or do they find beauty in their flawed, latter-day vocals?
Point taken, although you can definitely find examples of what you bring up hypothetically. For example, with Billie Holiday fans. There has always been a huge contingent of them, from the 1950s to the present, who felt her last ten or fifteen years, when her vocals were very different from her work in the '30s, were bad years for her vocally; whereas other listeners find a beauty in her croaky middle-age (which for her was old age) singing. You can't pick up any Holiday CD without liner notes that mention the chasm of preference between the early Holiday vocals & the later years.

So yes you can find these battles with millions of other singers, even classical or art music singers. The camps divvy up for Callas between "early," "middle" & "late." It isn't just Stevie.

And as for the bickering, heck that goes for everyone who elicits any sort of comment in his fans at all. I post on & read some forums for Bach & Beethoven, & these otherwise sedate, older commentators get *really* bitchy with one another. The Stevie Nicks fans are just one more grouping in a sea of groupings--nothing particularly special about them at all. They're like everyone else.
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  #87  
Old 04-22-2006, 01:50 PM
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I like both Stevie and Bekka, for very different reasons.

How lucky a fan like myself has been to have become familiar with both of their works. Is one better than the other? Not in my book. "Better Days" and "Silver Springs" are perhaps my two favorite songs from 1997.

Can Stevie sing? Yes. I think her voice can be inconsistent, sounding great on one song, but boring (or worse) on others. Hey, I can say the exact same thing about Bob Welch and Peter Green these days, too. I find a lot of Stevie's new songs boring or cringe worthy. But, I can say the same about Bekka, Christine, Lindsey, Peter, Billy, Bob...and even people who've never been in Fleetwood Mac. That having been said, I prefer Lindsey's SYW songs with Stevie on them than the GOS demos without Stevie. I absolutely detest Stevie's 1986-1994 period, but she was classic before then, and a legend since. (Hey, we all have are awkward periods. Why should Stevie be different?)

And this crap about Bekka over emoting? Huh? Does "Dreams unwind, love's a state of mind" mean anything to anyone? Or, what about "Talk To Me" from Red Rocks? Or "Edge Of Seventeen" from that very same video? Or, "Sisters Of The Moon" from the "Mirage" concert video? I mean, let's be fair here. BTW, I think the best worst offender in this category would be Bonnie Bramlett's singing at the end of "That's What My Man Is For" from Delaney & Bonnie's "On Tour With Eric Clapton" album.

As I've said, Stevie and Bekka come from two very different schools of music. I think both are valid, and frankly, I enjoy the contrast. Is one better than the other? Who gives a ****?!? Enjoy both of them for their different talents. There's a lot of great stuff there.
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  #88  
Old 04-22-2006, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Vicky
She certainly does have a very unusual voice but I don't think it's a very good voice, at least not anymore.
I think having a "good voice" is subjective in rock & roll. I don't think guys like Mick Jagger or Steven Tyler really ever had "good" voices either... but they had perfect voices for rock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Vicky
I'm just speaking in general terms, because I've found that even when I am respectful in my posts I often find myself being attacked for my opinions.
Unfortunately it seems that a lot of people in this world treat others with disrespect, whether it be in their daily lives or on a message board. Too many people are only interested in how they feel, and couldn't care less about anyone else.
I'm not sure when we collectively stopped being considerate, but it's a damn shame that we did.

I guess the only thing we can do, is to try and give better than we get. That way, at least we can live with ourselves.
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  #89  
Old 04-22-2006, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD
ENOUGH WITH THE CANADIAN BASHING, STEWBALL!!!
Blame Canada! Blame Canada!

Eh?
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  #90  
Old 04-22-2006, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
I think having a "good voice" is subjective in rock & roll. I don't think guys like Mick Jagger or Steven Tyler really ever had "good" voices either... but they had perfect voices for rock.
Of course it is, as are all things that are subject to opinion and cannot really be considered fact. Going along with your examples, I don't think that Tom Petty or Walter Egan have especially great singing voices, but they fit well with the music they play and with their overall sound. Same can be said for the late great Warren Zevon. And, in my opinion, Stevie fell into that same category once upon a time as well.

And I agree that her voice does work well still for some of her recordings, "Illume" for example, but for others it certainly does not. I remember still being very much in my short-lived Stevie obsession and hearing the Practical Magic version of "Crystal" and just cringing it because was so painful to hear. That was the beginning of the end of my Nicks fandom.
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