Ken's comments about Silver Springs and other things

[PenguinHead]

I just finished Ken's book. It's a fascinating read. I always thought that books by affiliates of Fleetwood Mac are much more revealing and truthful than anything that would be published by a band member. This book confirms that.

Some issues sparked my interest, including Ken's comments about the creation of Silver Springs. He mentions the song was originally ten minutes long in it's earliest form. I suspect that version likely didn't have additional lyrics or anything new to offer, but was just repetitive and meandering. Ken made a valient effort to make it more concise.

I loved reading about Lindsey always rolling joints. Stevie has been very candid about her cocaine and kolonipin issues. But she never ever alluded to pot. I think the reason for that is because pot is relatively benign, so it's never been an issue and something she probably still enjoys. I never really thought about it, but Ken makes it clear that Lindsey and Stevie are pot smoking hippies at heart.

Ken's comments about Lindsey are also very revealing, but it doesn't sully my opinion of him. He is human and flawed just like everyone else. It's nothing we don't already know about him. He's a controlling, hot-headed narcissist; no big suprise there. The sad thing about it is when Ken stated that he would have loved to had Lindsey be a guest player on other albums he produced, but he did not want to endure Lindsey's wrath. It would be more trouble than what it's worth.

It makes me understand why Lindsey, right off the bat with his first solo album, played all the instruments himself. perhaps because he didn't want to deal with anyone else and doesn't play well with others. He's a very insular individual, which in some regards, makes his music more unique. Maybe that's a good thing in some aspects, and not so much in others.

[David]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

It makes me understand why Lindsey, right off the bat with his first solo album, played all the instruments himself.

I just conducted a very lengthy interview with Lindsey Buckingham. It took place in my head, but we said the most amazing things. We talked about the whole instrument thing, too, and about Stevie's fan base vs. Lindsey's fan base. We talked about:

• the stature of the Fender Strat in early 1975 when Lindsey joined Fleetwood Mac
• his switch to the Les Paul (& Mick's insistence that he do so, based allegedly on the Les Paul "tradition" in Fleetwood Mac from 1967 to that point)
• how the Les Paul onstage--especially during the 1978 tour--began to sound like the attack and effect canvas of the Turner Model 1 two years later
• how the band was able to pull its most in-the-pocket playing and mind-reading out of extreme exhaustion in the final two months of the 1980 tour
• how the addition of "rackmount" orchestration to the band's live sound in 1987 destroyed the previous decade's seismographic character, and why Lindsey's own preference these days plays right into that, and
• why his decision not to tour in 1981 was understandable but not to tour in 1984 wasn't.

We had such a fun interview!!

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by David

[LIST][*]the stature of the Fender Strat in early 1975 when Lindsey joined Fleetwood Mac[*]his switch to the Les Paul (& Mick's insistence that he do so, based allegedly on the Les Paul "tradition" in Fleetwood Mac from 1967 to that point)

I've not read Mick's book for at least a couple of years now, but I could swear that his book claimed Lindsey played a Telecaster, which Mick made him switch out.

Now, I'm not discounting the fact that Mick's a moron, and I'm not discounting the fact that I'm a moron....

I'm at work now, so I can't pull out my copy of Mick's book, but I would guess that Strat is actually correct(against Mick's book), because I don't recall ever seeing a pic of Lindsey with a Tele.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

The sad thing about it is when Ken stated that he would have loved to had Lindsey be a guest player on other albums he produced, but he did not want to endure Lindsey's wrath. It would be more trouble than what it's worth.

There's no evidence that when Lindsey is just a guitarist on someone else's album, as he was most recently for Vanessa Carlton and Antsy McClain, that he's difficult. When he's not producing or trying to shape his own songs, I doubt he has enough investment in the project to be difficult as a guitarist or vocalist (i.e. for Don Henley and Tom Petty). For instance, it sounds like when he came in to work with the band on Time he was in and out. He wasn't spending hours demanding retakes or edits. It wasn't his baby and he was happy just to play and leave.

Lindsey probably has no interest in playing on Ken's outside projects. I doubt that he was Ken's for the asking. The most difficult part for Caillat would probably have been to get Lindsey to say "yes."

Michele

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by David

I just conducted a very lengthy interview with Lindsey Buckingham. It took place in my head

Funniest thing Ever!!

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by michelej1

There's no evidence that when Lindsey is just a guitarist on someone else's album, as he was most recently for Vanessa Carlton and Antsy McClain, that he's difficult. When he's not producing or trying to shape his own songs, I doubt he has enough investment in the project to be difficult as a guitarist or vocalist (i.e. for Don Henley and Tom Petty). For instance, it sounds like when he came in to work with the band on Time he was in and out. He wasn't spending hours demanding retakes or edits. It wasn't his baby and he was happy just to play and leave.

Lindsey probably has no interest in playing on Ken's outside projects. I doubt that he was Ken's for the asking. The most difficult part for Caillat would probably have been to get Lindsey to say "yes."

Michele

Ken's comments felt to me as if he was saying that from his past experience, he didn't want to deal with the personality of LB. I don't think he was citing that he was difficult to work with other artists. Ken isn't the only person that has claimed LB is difficult to work with, so it's reasonable to conclude without physical evidence or neck marks that he is.

Also it's very normal to demand re-takes and edits in a studio. When you write a piece, especially when you are co-producing it is very normal to want it just right and not just "go with the flow" I respect and understand his need for it to sound a certain way. I personally have slammed my keyboards with my fist a few times on the 50th take when I couldn't get my own song done right. I just know I wouldn't want to work with someone that couldn't keep their hands to themselves. Unless it was a hot young intern.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by David

I just conducted a very lengthy interview with Lindsey Buckingham. It took place in my head, but we said the most amazing things. We talked about the whole instrument thing, too, and about Stevie's fan base vs. Lindsey's fan base. We talked about:

• the stature of the Fender Strat in early 1975 when Lindsey joined Fleetwood Mac
• his switch to the Les Paul (& Mick's insistence that he do so, based allegedly on the Les Paul "tradition" in Fleetwood Mac from 1967 to that point)
• how the Les Paul onstage--especially during the 1978 tour--began to sound like the attack and effect canvas of the Turner Model 1 two years later
• how the band was able to pull its most in-the-pocket playing and mind-reading out of extreme exhaustion in the final two months of the 1980 tour
• how the addition of "rackmount" orchestration to the band's live sound in 1987 destroyed the previous decade's seismographic character, and why Lindsey's own preference these days plays right into that, and
• why his decision not to tour in 1981 was understandable but not to tour in 1984 wasn't.

We had such a fun interview!!

Why didn't he tour in 1984?

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Ken's comments felt to me as if he was saying that from his past experience, he didn't want to deal with the personality of LB. I don't think he was citing that he was difficult to work with other artists. Ken isn't the only person that has claimed LB is difficult to work with, so it's reasonable to conclude without physical evidence or neck marks that he is.

I didn't say he wasn't difficult. Lindsey even admits to being difficult. He calls himself a troublemaker. He said his child was like him because she is pushy and intense.

What I said was that there's no evidence that he acts the same way as a guest guitarist or vocalist as he does when he is a producer or artist. No reason to think he would bring the same investment and drive to the cameo. I doubt that Christine had any trouble with him when he appeared on her solo album singing and playing guitar. But working with him on a Fleetwood Mac album is a different story -- as was working on his solo album, I would guess.

I don't think artists like Welch, Egan, Zevon and Stewart had trouble with him. I know there was a reference to Stewart saying he was difficult, but all the Stewart comments I have seen make it seem like Lindsey was an easy producer. I think Egan had problems with Lindsey (like Lindsey not wanting him to do SOTM), but I don't think they were as a producer. So, even when he's just a producer of outside people, I don't think he's hard to work with. I think he's hard when it comes to Fleetwood Mac or his solo stuff.

I don't know how you read my comment as saying that Lindsey wasn't difficult on his or on FM's projects.

And I wasn't demanding evidence of a physical attack. A simple comment from, say, Antsy McClain, that it was complicated working with Lindsey when he guested on their album would suffice nicely.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I didn't say he wasn't difficult. Lindsey even admits to being difficult. He calls himself a troublemaker. He said his child was like him because she is pushy and intense.

What I said was that there's no evidence that he acts the same way as a guest guitarist or vocalist as he does when he is a producer or artist. No reason to think he would bring the same investment and drive to the cameo. I doubt that Christine had any trouble with him when he appeared on her solo album singing and playing guitar. But working with him on a Fleetwood Mac album is a different story -- as was working on his solo album, I would guess.

I don't think artists like Welch, Egan, Zevon and Stewart had trouble with him. I know there was a reference to Stewart saying he was difficult, but all the Stewart comments I have seen make it seem like Lindsey was an easy producer. I think Egan had problems with Lindsey (like Lindsey not wanting him to do SOTM), but I don't think they were as a producer. So, even when he's just a producer of outside people, I don't think he's hard to work with. I think he's hard when it comes to Fleetwood Mac or his solo stuff.

I don't know how you read my comment as saying that Lindsey wasn't difficult on his or on FM's projects.

And I wasn't demanding evidence of a physical attack. A simple comment from, say, Antsy McClain, that it was complicated working with Lindsey when he guested on their album would suffice nicely.

Michele

Well for one, I didn't read it that way, I was saying that I felt Ken meant "just between the 2 of them" in other words, "I don't wanna deal with that again sort of thing again, no matter who's album it is." I think his behavior hit Ken personally from what I digested.

If you read it again I'm agreeing with that notion the LB proably is a bit more behaved outside the doors of unfamiliar people than with a FM related circle.

Also, I don't really see where I said you demanded evidence of a physical attack. I'm saying for myself, I concluded it that he's difficult without any of that other violent stuff. You are free to your opinions and conclusions and I have no problem with them whatsoever. Sorry if that was originally mis-leading. (sincere not sarcastic tone)

[jbrownsjr]

Oh and as to Christine having trouble with him in her studio in Switzerland or London (1984). hahahaha!!! We both know how that would play out.

No offense to Todd Sharp or EClaption, but the solo on The Smile I Live For is the best guitar on that record IMHO.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Oh and as to Christine having trouble with him in her studio in Switzerland or London (1984). hahahaha!!! We both know how that would play out.

In addition to the shirt comment, Ken also said Christine told him she couldn't stand his mindless whistling.

This led me to wonder if she thought whistling was ok, as long as it wasn't mindless.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by michelej1

In addition to the shirt comment, Ken also said Christine told him she couldn't stand his mindless whistling.

This led me to wonder if she thought whistling was ok, as long as it wasn't mindless.

Michele

Probably had to have a verse verse chorus (repeat4 times) lol

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I've not read Mick's book for at least a couple of years now, but I could swear that his book claimed Lindsey played a Telecaster, which Mick made him switch out.

Now, I'm not discounting the fact that Mick's a moron, and I'm not discounting the fact that I'm a moron....

I'm at work now, so I can't pull out my copy of Mick's book, but I would guess that Strat is actually correct(against Mick's book), because I don't recall ever seeing a pic of Lindsey with a Tele.

Yep...TELE it is. There's a video (Japan?) early on around '75, where Lindsey plays a blonde/maple neck Tele through most of the set (only playing the white Les Paul Custom on a couple of numbers) Even later on, he'd play a Tele on "Monday Morning" (which opened the set for a while), then switch out to the Les Paul Custom after that. He played a Strat mainly only on "Over My Head" during those first couple of years in the band.

[elle]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Ken's comments felt to me as if he was saying that from his past experience, he didn't want to deal with the personality of LB.

... and it's so obvious that at this point in his career all LB really needs for his street cred is to be a session guitar player on some pop starlet's little album .

meanwhile Ken's complaining why LB wouldn't hire him for any more recent FM work.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by elle

... and it's so obvious that at this point in his career all LB really needs for his street cred is to be a session guitar player on some pop starlet's little album .

meanwhile Ken's complaining why LB wouldn't hire him for any more recent FM work.

While I need no convincing that LB is difficult and a big diva (even today). I did think the same thing that you just said. Unless Ken was saying that he just wanted to work w/ FMac and not LB solo. But still that would mean having to work with LB a lot.. so which is it? We want to or we don't? Good point elle..