Mackenzie Phillips: I had sex with musician dad John Phillips

[WildHeart69]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

The way it was phrased made me wonder exactly what it was that Jagger actually did. It was a very troubling choice of words, for me.

She went on to say she did have sex with him that night... her dad ran out for some mayonnaise for tuna salad (weird I know) and thats when Mick 'seduced' her and they locked John out when he came back and spent the night together. She said that was consensual as well...she was 18 at the time

[golddustdrummer]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

Statuatory rape, especially involving incest, is never consensual. For example there's automatically "power issues" involved - the father is a trusted "authority figure," etc.

I don't think it could be seen as statutory rape.
she was what? 18 or 19?
the age of consent in California is 18.
she was "legally" an adult.
but consensual or not...it is all kinds of nasty.

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

Anyway i.m.o. it's six of one, half-dozen of the other - I'm totally neutral about whether the temperature of his room in hell will be one million degrees, or ten million........

lol couldn't agree more

[trackaghost]

Michelle Phillips says she thinks Mackenzie is lying:

“John was a bad parent, and a drug addict. But [expletive deleted] his daughter? If she thinks it’s true, why isn’t she with a good psychiatrist on a couch? I think it’s unconscionable that Oprah would let her do her show. I have every reason to believe it’s untrue. Oprah should be more judicious about who she has on her show.”

Michelle added: “Mackenzie has a lot of mental illness. She’s had a needle stuck up her arm for 35 years. She was arrested for heroin and coke just recently. She did ‘Celebrity Rehab’ and now she writes a book. The whole thing is timed.”

http://showbiz411.blogs.thr.com/mich...-lying-incest/

And his third wife Genevieve Waïte, who he was married to at the time of the alleged affair, also says she believes it isn't true:

"John was a good man who had the disease of alcoholism and drug addiction," Waite said in the statement. "He was incapable, no matter how drunk or drugged he was, of having such a relationship with his own child."

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20090923...s-90f61ed.html

But his daughter Chynna believes Mackenzie:

"Somebody could have dropped a piano on my head and I probably wouldn't have felt it," the singer tells Us Weekly. "But I knew it was true. I mean, who in their right mind would make such a claim if it wasn't true?"

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrityn...illips-2009239

So I don't know. I don't think it's as cut and dry as all that. I find it weird to reveal something so awful on a TV talk show I must admit.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by jannieC

Thanks for the "Amen" in spite of the many typos and grammatical errors. I was at work and typing very fast- !

I wanted to add that while her story isn't "new", it is offering another perspective. She wasn't really "consensual" in the way we define it. I didn't get to see Oprah, but I hope this was handled well.

It was. Oprah let her tell her story uninterrupted and didn't dig for salacious details. Michelle has come out today and said she is mentally ill. I think it is sad for Michelle just to reject the story out of hand that way. But then again, I don't know what is in the bo0k ( which I will be purchasing in a few hours) about Michelle or what her and Mackenzie's relationship is like.

[camchristo]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Michelle Phillips says she thinks Mackenzie is lying:

“John was a bad parent, and a drug addict. But [expletive deleted] his daughter? If she thinks it’s true, why isn’t she with a good psychiatrist on a couch? I think it’s unconscionable that Oprah would let her do her show. I have every reason to believe it’s untrue. Oprah should be more judicious about who she has on her show.”

Michelle added: “Mackenzie has a lot of mental illness. She’s had a needle stuck up her arm for 35 years. She was arrested for heroin and coke just recently. She did ‘Celebrity Rehab’ and now she writes a book. The whole thing is timed.”

http://showbiz411.blogs.thr.com/mich...-lying-incest/

And his third wife Genevieve Waïte, who he was married to at the time of the alleged affair, also says she believes it isn't true:

"John was a good man who had the disease of alcoholism and drug addiction," Waite said in the statement. "He was incapable, no matter how drunk or drugged he was, of having such a relationship with his own child."

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20090923...s-90f61ed.html

But his daughter Chynna believes Mackenzie:

"Somebody could have dropped a piano on my head and I probably wouldn't have felt it," the singer tells Us Weekly. "But I knew it was true. I mean, who in their right mind would make such a claim if it wasn't true?"

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrityn...illips-2009239

So I don't know. I don't think it's as cut and dry as all that. I find it weird to reveal something so awful on a TV talk show I must admit.

I was wondering what kind of backlash there would be. I'm not surprised that 2 of the stepmothers think she is lying. Who would want to admit that they married that kind of a man?

Although I do think it is weird that she revealed this on Oprah, and it was awkward to watch, I do tend to believe her. Why would someone make that up? The photos they showed of her and John during the timeframe this was going on were kind of creepy. Like boyfriend-girlfriend photos, not father-daughter.

The only reason I can figure for her revealing the secret on Oprah (aside from promoting the book) was to bring awareness to these types of situations and maybe encourage people in those situations to speak out or get help. Also, she may have wanted people to see and hear her talk about it to gauge her credibility. It's easier to gauge when you're watching her rather that only reading her words. She seemed credible to me.

Oh, and how does Michelle Phillips know that Mackenzie is NOT receiving psychatric treatment?

[LukeA]

Michelle is the only surviving Mama/Papa, so I'm sure she feels some need to defend the group's legacy- even if it means she has to defend John. I don't mean to be cynical, but she WAS the co-author of California Dreamin' and Creeque Alley- she may very well be envisioning royalties and potential song licensing deals flying out the window, now that a whole new generation mostly associates the band (because of the alleged actions of its primary creative force) with incest.

By the way, has Spanky McFarlane weighed in on this yet? Seems to me she might have a unique perspective on this.

[Erin]

Originally Posted by LukeA

Michelle is the only surviving Mama/Papa, so I'm sure she feels some need to defend the group's legacy- even if it means she has to defend John. I don't mean to be cynical, but she WAS the co-author of California Dreamin' and Creeque Alley- she may very well be envisioning royalties and potential song licensing deals flying out the window, now that a whole new generation mostly associates the band (because of the alleged actions of its primary creative force) with incest.

I agree with this. I'd forgotten Denny had died. I certainly won't be listening to their music in the same way. I'm not sure how I feel about listening to them at all to be honest. I suppose I should let the music stand as is.

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by camchristo

I was wondering what kind of backlash there would be. I'm not surprised that 2 of the stepmothers think she is lying. Who would want to admit that they married that kind of a man?

I do agree with you but I have to admit I'm still on the fence about it all. She was out of her mind on drugs for a long time and she's most probably broke and has a book to sell, but at the same time it's such an awful thing to say you'd have to be ill or twisted to make that kind of accusation without it being true. As I don't know Mackenzie as a person I can't say either way. I do know someone, who was ill, who made such a claim once and later said it wasn't true after he died. I'd be interested to hear what his other children think. If they don't say anything, I'd tend to think they believe her and there must be something to it. So we'll see I guess!

[paleshadow]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

I do agree with you but I have to admit I'm still on the fence about it all. She was out of her mind on drugs for a long time and she's most probably broke and has a book to sell, but at the same time it's such an awful thing to say you'd have to be ill or twisted to make that kind of accusation without it being true. As I don't know Mackenzie as a person I can't say either way. I do know someone, who was ill, who made such a claim once and later said it wasn't true after he died. I'd be interested to hear what his other children think. If they don't say anything, I'd tend to think they believe her and there must be something to it. So we'll see I guess!

I'm on the fence also. Unfortunately her credibility is a big issue. If she had just released a book that detailed her well publicized drug addiction, it might sell alright, but disclosing details of incest gets you on Oprah and sells tons of books.
I don't necessarily think she would be ill or twisted to make it up. At this stage in her life, being addicted to drugs for decades, having success and set backs, what else does she have to lose? In addition to the publicity, and money it will generate she is also gaining tons of public sympathy. Again, I'm not saying it's not true, but just pointing out some reasons why I would have doubts.

[Ghost_Tracker]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Michelle Phillips says she thinks Mackenzie is lying:

“John was a bad parent, and a drug addict. But [expletive deleted] his daughter? If she thinks it’s true, why isn’t she with a good psychiatrist on a couch?

plus some other things.

[camchristo]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

I do agree with you but I have to admit I'm still on the fence about it all. She was out of her mind on drugs for a long time and she's most probably broke and has a book to sell, but at the same time it's such an awful thing to say you'd have to be ill or twisted to make that kind of accusation without it being true. As I don't know Mackenzie as a person I can't say either way. I do know someone, who was ill, who made such a claim once and later said it wasn't true after he died. I'd be interested to hear what his other children think. If they don't say anything, I'd tend to think they believe her and there must be something to it. So we'll see I guess!

You have a good point. I guess I just project my morals into the situation, i.e. I would NEVER make accusations like that if they weren't true. Doesn't mean other people wouldn't.

I am curious about what her siblings have to say. From your earlier posted quotes, it looks like Chynna believes it. I think she's going to be on Oprah Friday to comment.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by LukeA

Michelle is the only surviving Mama/Papa, so I'm sure she feels some need to defend the group's legacy- even if it means she has to defend John. I don't mean to be cynical, but she WAS the co-author of California Dreamin' and Creeque Alley- she may very well be envisioning royalties and potential song licensing deals flying out the window, now that a whole new generation mostly associates the band (because of the alleged actions of its primary creative force) with incest.

Well it certainly sheds a new light on Twelve Thirty (Young Girls Are Coming to the Canyon).
That was bad, I know.

[LukeA]

Originally Posted by Erin

I certainly won't be listening to their music in the same way. I'm not sure how I feel about listening to them at all to be honest. I suppose I should let the music stand as is.

I'm compartmentalizing all of this for now- trying not to think about it. "I Saw Her Again" has always been one of my very favorite (top 10 or 20 at least) songs by any artist. A segment of the song is actually my earliest memory of music, and has always given me chills- gives me one right now.

We cannot deny the brilliance of the songs, un/fortunately.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by LukeA

I'm compartmentalizing all of this for now- trying not to think about it. "I Saw Her Again" has always been one of my very favorite (top 10 or 20 at least) songs by any artist. A segment of the song is actually my earliest memory of music, and has always given me chills- gives me one right now.

We cannot deny the brilliance of the songs, un/fortunately.

I love that song. It was about Michelle and Denny's affair.

[trackaghost]

Here's Bijou Phillips statement about it, she pretty much denies it while trying not to alienate Mackenzie:

"When I was 13, Mackenzie told me that she had a consensual sexual relationship with our father. This news was confusing and scary, as I lived alone with my father since I was 3. I didn't know what to believe, and it didn't help that shortly there after Mackenzie told me it didn't happen. Mackenzie’s history with our father is hers, but also clouded with 30 years of drug abuse. I hope she can come to terms with this and find peace. The life I had with my father was very different. He was Mr. Mom, encouraging and loving. The man that raised me would never be capable of doing such things, and if he was, it is heartbreaking to me to think that my family would leave me alone with him. I understand Mackenzie's need to come clean with a history she feels will help others, but it's devastating to have the world watch as we try and mend broken fences, especially when the man in question isn’t here to defend himself."